Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part II

[Einzakin]

View attachment 232119

Not my image, someone else actually had this but difference is bigger then I would have thought.

Is this 5v5? Mitch PKs when he's not with Johnny T. We also know that Mitchy drives that line

 

[The CyNick]

You can trade that talent for other talent in a different position though, is 10.5M for Marner a better investment of cap resources than trading him for a high end top pairing defenseman that costs much less? I'd use Nylander as well but I think his value has taken a major hit and I'm against selling low

If Tavares and to a lesser extent Matthews can carry middling wingers you can massively improve the blueline and theoretically improve the overall team

Do you have an example of a team looking to trade a "high end top paid defenseman" for Marner? I'm struggling to come up with someone who fits that bill and is available.

 

[Sonny21]

Meh, both sides will play their hard ball games through the media and Dubas at the end will fold and give Marner his money which will be more than Kucherov.

That's what I'm expecting to happen, just like previous negotiations.

Unless anyone thinks Dubas has the stones to trade Marner? Not saying that's what I want or whatnot, but that's the end game of game of chicken.

 

[CelticDruid]

Just trade the bum and be done with it.

 

[Kiwi]

Do you have an example of a team looking to trade a "high end top paid defenseman" for Marner? I'm struggling to come up with someone who fits that bill and is available.

This is all theory, I'm not an NHL GM but I'm fairly comfortable writing somebody like Marner being available would make a lot of defenseman we think aren't available very available

 

[diceman934]

212 games, 205 points

241 games, 224 points.

Try again.

Really. Since Jan of 2017. Check the ppg. Marner has for the last year and a half including playoffs Marner has more ppg. So for the first year and a Mathews had more ppg.

 

[diceman934]

Just trade the bum and be done with it.

I though you loved Nylander!

 

[Faltorvo]

Meh, both sides will play their hard ball games through the media and Dubas at the end will fold and give Marner his money which will be more than Kucherov.

That's what I'm expecting to happen, just like previous negotiations.

Unless anyone thinks Dubas has the stones to trade Marner? Not saying that's what I want or whatnot, but that's the end game of game of chicken.

I would trade Melander for help on D and send a message to MMs camp
and trade MM for more D if need be, if their demands will kill our cap.

screw these RFAs that have not won a damn thing.

kappy and AJ can play wing with the 2 stud Cs

 

[Kiwi]

I don't disagree with that on either the Marner or Nylander fronts. I do think we overestimate the value of being balanced as a team though as well, overwhelmingly good in one place can make up for being bad in another, but if Seth Jones was available then I'd be listening for sure, I just think that guys on that level don't come available that often.

I think the way that our lines are built, they get a lot of synergy value from not just the talent level of the players but also the archetypes in each position - we're built to enter the zone through the RW a lot with very fast, high possession time RWer's who are fairly pass-first and can either beat the defender around the outside with speed or back them off with speed and turn back to give themselves space to make a pass. Our top 3 centers are all shoot-first, dangerous from within 15 feet of the net without having to touch the puck for long, and or LW's are able to get to the ring-around dump in from the RW and are good secondary pass options for the RW if he gets in clean because they can also score from in tight. Interestingly, Bracco is also very much that archetype of RW so we may have a replacement if we traded one of them or if Kapanen is moved to the left

Ultimately I don't think a team with Andreas Johnsson as it's best winger would be that offensively effective, but we might have some talent to spare on the RW with how good the centers are and if Bracco turns out

That's down to scouting, the Jones we see now wasn't the same caliber of player compared to when he was traded and he grew into what he is now

It's a bloody risky trade to make I will admit

Our talent up front is very very good but if your defensive unit can't do enough to help get you through a playoff round you do have to look at our team makeup eventually

That being said I seriously doubt Marner is moving any time soon

 

[Stephen]

Why not blame Matthews the same thing? Tavares too for that matter? Even Nylander?

It's the blinders that people put on here thinking players should play for less to play here.

I don't think he should pay for less, just not ask to be the highest paid winger in the game because he's not the best winger in the game, or more specifically, his age group. But we shall see what the ask is. Just not liking the tone of the public negotiations.

 

[Kiwi]

Really. Since Jan of 2017. Check the ppg. Marner has for the last year and a half including playoffs Marner has more ppg. So for the first year and a Mathews had more ppg.

Now do goal scoring, since guys get a premium for goals and the position they play

 

[Sonny21]

I would trade Melander for help on D and send a message to MMs camp
and trade MM for more D if need be, if their demands will kill our cap.

screw these RFAs that have not won a damn thing.

kappy and AJ can play wing with the 2 stud Cs

Everyone can obviously discuss what THEY would do and etc.

The thing is what do you expect Dubas to do.

That was the basis of my post.

 

[diceman934]

View attachment 232119

Not my image, someone else actually had this but difference is bigger then I would have thought.

lol. No context without Marner most of those minutes of JT where with Mathews,
Kadri after killing a penalty.

JT finished behind Marner in points. Obviously Marner help him more then JT help Marner. His stats for the last 40 games including playoffs were the same and that was with Kadri and Marleau.

 

[CelticDruid]

I though you loved Nylander!

 

[diceman934]

Now do goal scoring, since guys get a premium for goals and the position they play

The discussion was about ppg. We could do assist and see how that works out even for the total 3 years.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

If this continues as it has currently played out, I would consider trading an unsigned Marner for PK Subban. I have no idea if Nashville would do that. Sends a message to the players that no one is above the team, brings in the team's biggest need and we'd be getting a super-motivated player that is a proven difference maker. Imagine if we had had PK against the Bruins.

Edit: forgot to mention upwards of $2M in cap savings.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

If this continues as it has currently played out, I would consider trading an unsigned Marner for PK Subban. I have no idea if Nashville would do that. Sends a message to the players that no one is above the team, brings in the team's biggest need and we'd be getting a super-motivated player that is a proven difference maker. Imagine if we had had PK against the Bruins.

Of course Nashville would do it, the Leafs wouldn't. Take the 4 first rounders and sign Panarin/Karlsson, and trade for Zucker. Dubas knows what he's doing.

 

[Kiwi]

The discussion was about ppg. We could do assist and see how that works out even for the total 3 years.

Since guys get paid a premium for goals that seems a little pointless, if people got paid a premium for assists you would have a point but since they don't I fail to see the relevance

 

[Nithoniniel]

JT finished behind Marner in points. Obviously Marner help him more then JT help Marner. His stats for the last 40 games including playoffs were the same and that was with Kadri and Marleau.

Marner helped him to a whopping 4 points more than he had the year before. Meanwhile, Marner jumped 25 points from last year. It's pretty clear who helped who the most.

 

[Menzinger]

I guess his agent told them how much he made...not!

What a joke. They have no idea and it is propaganda spread by Dubas to attempt to get fans in his side.

You have any evidence to suggest they're lying?

There are multiple avenues for them.to potentially find this information out

 

[Menzinger]

Delete

 

[Faltorvo]

Everyone can obviously discuss what THEY would do and etc.

The thing is what do you expect Dubas to do.

That was the basis of my post.

Dubas has to see that he is seen as a contract push over.

His career in the league won't last long as the leagues Agents keep punking him.

He is 0/2 with Melander and Matty.

Either he sends a league wide message with Melander and MM or i fear his tenure won't last long as a NHL GM.

This will be 2 years in a row that this roster of "never won a PO series" has to be thinned due to contract demands.

 

[Menzinger]

lol. No context without Marner most of those minutes of JT where with Mathews,
Kadri after killing a penalty.

JT finished behind Marner in points. Obviously Marner help him more then JT help Marner. His stats for the last 40 games including playoffs were the same and that was with Kadri and Marleau.

Lol what?

You realize JT only scored 4 more points this season than he did last year?

 

[Faltorvo]

Everyone can obviously discuss what THEY would do and etc.

The thing is what do you expect Dubas to do.

That was the basis of my post.

i expect Dubas to move Melander for D help and then make a VERY firm stand on MM or move him also for D help.

I don't want 17m/18m cap tied up in 2 wingers and neither should KD.

 

[Faltorvo]

The only real risk I see is a team willing to go in the 9-10.5 range by 4-5 years screwing up our ability to get him at 9-10.5 x 6-8. I don't find the 11-12+ long term offersheets realistic, and if it comes to pass the market has spoken and we'll get compensated.

But that 4-5 year range is scary because of how justifiable it is. If we hadn't landed Tavares and were sitting with ~10million to spare wouldn't Point look awfully nice?

No Point would not look nice,,,,,,, at 10m per and 4 1rsts out the window.