Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Notsince67]

So honest question. Why do you think babcock has Never happen played him at C?

Despite babcocks insistence that C are the most important.

Despite what 4 injuries to Matthews, Nylander missing 30’games. Kadri suspensions etc

Why do you think he never plays C. He has been on every line. But never a C

Honest answer. Babs like centers playing wing and Marner was too small to take the full responsibility when he first entered the league. Marner has a ton of skill but his only weakness at playing center (even now) is playing down low in the defensive end. Just not enough mass to jar the puck loose on the boards.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Even proposing that he is likelier to get signed at that cap hit by another team than signing with the leafs at 1.5MM is a bit absurd. He likely takes less or he retires. .

If you think he'll sign for $1.5 m or less with the Leafs, that's fine. It's your opinion.

I don't think so. That's my opinion. I think he'll sign for something closer to his current contract. That's what the "not quibbling about a few hundred thousand dollars"means.

He's UFA. He's played for multiple teams in his career. He is not obligated to play for the Leafs because he's a UFA.

We'll see. This is my last post/reply (to you) on this subject as it would be futile to continue ......

 

[Legion34]

Honest answer. Babs like centers playing wing and Marner was too small to take the full responsibility when he first entered the league. Marner has a ton of skill but his only weakness at playing center (even now) is playing down low in the defensive end. Just not enough mass to jar the puck loose on the boards.

Why not this year then? Or last year? You think he can or can not play C?

Does babcock think so now?

 

[Notsince67]

Why not this year then? Or last year? You think he can or can not play C?

Does babcock think so now?

Put Marner on the 3rd line? Really?

 

[Legion34]

Put Marner on the 3rd line? Really?

He was on the third/fourth line for his first 150’games.

Ok. Next year. Say Tavares goes down. Do you think Marner plays the middle?

 

[Notsince67]

He was on the third/fourth line for his first 150’games.

Ok. Next year. Say Tavares goes down. Do you think Marner plays the middle?

Maybe. I think he could

 

[The CyNick]

I don't think we're elite even with Marner.

Way too much money wrapped up in non-elite players.

I'd prefer to keep Marner and try to make it work ala the Penguins system (3 massive contracts taking up 40% of the cap), but the consolation prize is $10-12 mil in cap space and 4 1st round picks.
I'm fine with either way it pans out at this point.

Of course, what I would have prefered is Dubas getting all of these players under fair market value. But that ship has long ago sailed. So instead of the leafs being an utterly elite contending team for the next near decade, I'll now be happy being one of those teams that, while not elite, make the playoffs every year and hope for the stars to align. It's better than we've been for the past 15 years... so that's a positive I guess. But a gm that dramatically overpaids their star players will never put together a team with enough depth to be elite.

A team in this market with the advantages management has over almost every other team in the league should be always looking to win Cups. In a cap system you have to expect some down periods, but we should currently be riding the crest of the wave, and seeing where it takes us. That's where we were heading under the previous management, this current one seems to be striving for mediocrity, which is concerning.

Finding elite talent is the toughest thing to do. Hunter found us Marner, so we should be able to utilize that talent instead of throwing it away for magic beans.

Trading Marner would be a massive step back for this organization and should unquestionably result in the firing of both the young GM and the first time President.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

A team in this market with the advantages management has over almost every other team in the league should be always looking to win Cups. In a cap system you have to expect some down periods, but we should currently be riding the crest of the wave, and seeing where it takes us. That's where we were heading under the previous management, this current one seems to be striving for mediocrity, which is concerning.

Finding elite talent is the toughest thing to do. Hunter found us Marner, so we should be able to utilize that talent instead of throwing it away for magic beans.

Trading Marner would be a massive step back for this organization and should unquestionably result in the firing of both the young GM and the first time President.

I don’t understand why the advantages of playing in Toronto doesn’t give any cap hit relief on our players contracts.
There’s less taxes in Tampa, which (allegedly... depends who you asks) means Tampa players sign for lower aav’s.

But playing in Toronto comes with ridiculous endorsements. When I’m in Toronto I see Marner EVERYWHERE. He’s on every other tv commercial. His pictures is all over advertisements in newspapers. He’s on billboards. Wherever you turn, there’s Marner, banking cash. Other players like Kapanen constantly even tease him about it. But it has NO effect on his aav. Why? Point may have lower taxes, but he is NOT getting these endorsements. I guarantee he’ll still sing for a lower cap hit.
Same with how much the leafs front load/pay in signing bonuses. They do this FAR more than any other team, with only a few player contracts as exceptions. Why no affect on aav?

I think our gm is just lousy at his job.

 

[diceman934]

He can want that all he wants. But that’s not how the league works.

Players are compared across the league. Not just on your own team

Either way. If he wants to do that fine.
He gets paid as the teams third best forward

Because he is.

Lol he is our best forward has been the last year and a half in points and ppg.

 

[Notsince67]

Lol he is our best forward has been the last year and a half in points and ppg.

Recency bias. You need to look back to his rookie year apparently.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Why is this becoming such a struggle?

Mitchy plays for his childhood team. I would hope under 10M on a long-term deal.. he can continue to pile up the endorsements while going for the cup which would make him a legend in this city.

 

[Menzinger]

So he predicts $9.79 mil X 8 years for Marner.. That seems fairly reasonable and logical for 8 years.

What will you say when his deal aligns more with Matthews deal and Marner gets $10.5 mil X 5-6 years?

Probably similar to what I said when Mattbews was signed.

It's not a good deal but a manageable one.

 

[The CyNick]

I don’t understand why the advantages of playing in Toronto doesn’t give any cap hit relief on our players contracts.
There’s less taxes in Tampa, which (allegedly... depends who you asks) means Tampa players sign for lower aav’s.

But playing in Toronto comes with ridiculous endorsements. When I’m in Toronto I see Marner EVERYWHERE. He’s on every other tv commercial. His pictures is all over advertisements in newspapers. He’s on billboards. Wherever you turn, there’s Marner, banking cash. Other players like Kapanen constantly even tease him about it. But it has NO effect on his aav. Why? Point may have lower taxes, but he is NOT getting these endorsements. I guarantee he’ll still sing for a lower cap hit.
Same with how much the leafs front load/pay in signing minuses. They do this FAR more than any other team, with only a few player contracts as exceptions. Why no affect on aav?

I think our gm is just lousy at his job.

I don't think anyone can debate at this point he's lousy at his job. Hell he said himself this past year was riddled with mistakes. I'm shocked he still has his job given the step back and his role in making the team worse year over year despite being handed things that should have made this year a slam dunk.

I think it comes down to lack of experience with negotiations. Working out a deal with some kid from the Soo doesn't prepare you to handle big time deals with guys like Matthews.

 

[DanM]

No matter what happens, the boards will be too funny when the time comes.

1. Marner signs a team friendly deal and HFBoards talks about how bad his agent is, how the Leafs lowball top players, and how it's not the players fault and he deserves to be paid.

2. Marner signs for a HUGE number and HFBoards goes on about how we have "me first" players and other teams have stars who see the big picture of winning, and are not just about the money.

 

[Kiwi]

Maybe. I think he could

You would be wrong, he's not a center

 

[Kiwi]

Lol he is our best forward has been the last year and a half in points and ppg.

He's a winger and gets a ton of assists not goals, those things matter contractually

I did see Friedman talking about him wanting Matthews contract and being unwilling to give us a solid contract demand

Now I spent some time in the Nylander thread so I'm wondering what we should agree on calling this me first greedy player

 

[Notsince67]

You would be wrong, he's not a center

He is a winger but played successfully as a center before. Anyone can play center. The question is whether they can do it well. Your comment is a bit dumb.

 

[nsleaf]

I don’t understand why the advantages of playing in Toronto doesn’t give any cap hit relief on our players contracts.
There’s less taxes in Tampa, which (allegedly... depends who you asks) means Tampa players sign for lower aav’s.

But playing in Toronto comes with ridiculous endorsements. When I’m in Toronto I see Marner EVERYWHERE. He’s on every other tv commercial. His pictures is all over advertisements in newspapers. He’s on billboards. Wherever you turn, there’s Marner, banking cash. Other players like Kapanen constantly even tease him about it. But it has NO effect on his aav. Why? Point may have lower taxes, but he is NOT getting these endorsements. I guarantee he’ll still sing for a lower cap hit.
Same with how much the leafs front load/pay in signing bonuses. They do this FAR more than any other team, with only a few player contracts as exceptions. Why no affect on aav?

I think our gm is just lousy at his job.

Is the endorsement ridiculous or the money made doing said endorsement ridiculous? Is he plugging used cars or Nike shoes?

I don't think "local" endorsements really pay very much compared to their hockey salaries. Likely a very small percentage and no affect on the AAV.
National or international endorsement contracts is where the big money is and only the elitist of athletes get those.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

I don’t understand why the advantages of playing in Toronto doesn’t give any cap hit relief on our players contracts.
There’s less taxes in Tampa, which (allegedly... depends who you asks) means Tampa players sign for lower aav’s.

But playing in Toronto comes with ridiculous endorsements. When I’m in Toronto I see Marner EVERYWHERE. He’s on every other tv commercial. His pictures is all over advertisements in newspapers. He’s on billboards. Wherever you turn, there’s Marner, banking cash. Other players like Kapanen constantly even tease him about it. But it has NO effect on his aav. Why? Point may have lower taxes, but he is NOT getting these endorsements. I guarantee he’ll still sing for a lower cap hit.
Same with how much the leafs front load/pay in signing bonuses. They do this FAR more than any other team, with only a few player contracts as exceptions. Why no affect on aav?

I think our gm is just lousy at his job.

Considering Matthews contract is in line with Tampa's taxes and he still took FULL AAV says a lot about how crappy Dubas is as a GM.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Is the endorsement ridiculous or the money made doing said endorsement ridiculous? Is he plugging used cars or Nike shoes?

I don't think "local" endorsements really pay very much compared to their hockey salaries. Likely a very small percentage and no affect on the AAV.
National or international endorsement contracts is where the big money is and only the elitist of athletes get those.

So what’s “not paying much”? You think he’s doing these endorsements for like 10 grand? Isn’t one of them visa?
And what about the front loading/signing bonus argument?

 

[Kiwi]

He is a winger but played successfully as a center before. Anyone can play center. The question is whether they can do it well. Your comment is a bit dumb.

In junior and they moved him back to the wing in London ffs

I guess JVR is a center then since he's played there, somebody should tell his agent

This is bad even by your standards

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I am just going to cheer for the Marlies, attend games etc... I have lost my desire for the Leafs in such a massive way in the past season. I would never have believed it.

Kawhi Leonard may very well leave Toronto, but guess what? He is giving us an incredible efort.

I will continue to support him wherever he goes.

Nylander? Dubas? Babcock? I dunno, I could care less if I never hear from any of them again.

My best friend was forced to trade Courtnall for Kordic cause of Brophy wanting toughness. Poor guy never had another GM shot after that.

Who knows who prompted Dubas to call Nylander with 30 minutes to go.

Well Dubas makes the big bucks and is wearing the goat collars, but it was probably someone else that made him make the call. Dubas hires cheap good players. Drafts guys like Sandin. '

I smell the tepid breath of Larry Tanenbaum on the Nylander signing.

But do you honestly think, it was DUBAS alone, who made that financial call?
\
If you do,, I can sell you some swamp.

Anywhere. It was a higher up, probably panicking at losing a talent like Nylander . Couldn't have been a doop like Dubas.

 

[Sypher04]

So what’s “not paying much”? You think he’s doing these endorsements for like 10 grand? Isn’t one of them visa?
And what about the front loading/signing bonus argument?

Endorsements do not and should not be a factor because it's quite literally money made for doing other work outside of the work they do to make their NHL salaries. Why would that count in their NHL salary negotiations? If I have 2 jobs. 1 of which (B) is only afforded because I happen to be good at another (A) doesn't suddenly mean I should be expected to take less for doing job A

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

He built the Marlies probably with zero interference, but I know for a fact, MLSE represents a ton of interference.

Dubas wqs probably retained/hired to be the new Gord Stellick, and dishwasher, errand boy. Who would take orders


Does Mark Hunter look like a guy who would kow tow to Nylander or Tanenbaum?

 

[Sypher04]

I am just going to cheer for the Marlies, attend games etc... I have lost my desire for the Leafs in such a massive way in the past season. I would never have believed it.

Kawhi Leonard may very well leave Toronto, but guess what? He is giving us an incredible efort.

I will continue to support him wherever he goes.

Nylander? Dubas? Babcock? I dunno, I could care less if I never hear from any of them again.

My best friend was forced to trade Courtnall for Kordic cause of Brophy wanting toughness. Poor guy never had another GM shot after that.

Who knows who prompted Dubas to call Nylander with 30 minutes to go.

Well Dubas makes the big bucks and is wearing the goat collars, but it was probably someone else that made him make the call. Dubas hires cheap good players. Drafts guys like Sandin. '

I smell the tepid breath of Larry Tanenbaum on the Nylander signing.

But do you honestly think, it was DUBAS alone, who made that financial call?
\
If you do,, I can sell you some swamp.

Anywhere. It was a higher up, probably panicking at losing a talent like Nylander . Couldn't have been a doop like Dubas.

Nylander called Dubas. We have that on record.

Also, who knows what would have happened with Mark Hunter, but you can easily make the case that the right choice was made. And it's not like NHL teams are lining up for the free agent would be manager

Your premise that Kyle Dubas was made GM to be a puppet is completely unfounded.