Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Nylander88]

If the leafs didn't find a way to offload Marleau, they would be prime targets for a <10.5x5 offersheet, where the compensation would only be 2 first round picks.

Imagine Dubas tried to trade Marleau during the 7 days after Marner signed an offersheet. Other teams would have so much more leverage over him and it likely would have cost much more than a 1st (and Marleau would still have to waive his nmc).

Bingo So Marleau was cleared for Marner. Not Johnsson and Kapanen like @biotk is claiming.

 

[Walshy7]

Agreed.

However I was asking why would you think Leafs would take $10 mil X 5 mil option when that is essentially an offersheet matching threshold and not something Leafs have on the table?

Carolina wasn't willing to give Aho $8.5 mil themselves, but willing to accept that amount on matching an offersheet, because of the comp pick compensation..

If Marner wants $10.5 mil X 5 year he will need to get someone to give him an OS first and then Leafs matching it to end up at that point, but not expecting Leafs to offer it themselves.

its as high as they would loke to go? and would only like to in case of offersheet? seems pretty reasonable to me. If no offersheet they try to get him lower.

Marner at $10.5M would be my ceiling too, i would be ok with it not happy its an overpay but not too much

 

[Mess]

What value is there in paying Matthews or Tavares during a stoppage?
The value comes from the Player playing in the upcoming season.

So why wouldn't Dubas simply offer a 1 year deal for next year, and then Marner take the risk of a potential lockout?

All players that have 3 or more year deals, can't be avoided by Owners from paying during a work stoppage/lockout that they would be orchestrating themselves by locking the players out.

There is no benefit to an organization of a 2 year deal for Marner, unless the % of a lockout is low.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Bingo So Marleau was cleared for Marner. Not Johnsson and Kapanen like @biotk is claiming.

It's kind of both, isn't it?

The leafs needed to clear up space in order to sign those other two players while leaving enough space to match a <10.5x5 offersheet.

 

[Nylander88]

It's kind of both, isn't it?

The leafs needed to clear up space in order to sign those other two players while leaving enough space to match a <10.5x5 offersheet.

So you agree they cleared up space? Bingo again killing it today bro lol
@biotk said we didn't clear space for Marner. We have the same amount for Marner. Marleau was cleared just for Johnsson and Kapanen. You keep agreeing with everything I'm saying but it seems like you're not trying to? Did you read back at all or you just hopping right on in?lol

 

[Joey Hoser]

Bingo So Marleau was cleared for Marner. Not Johnsson and Kapanen like @biotk is claiming.

They cleared out the guys they didn't want so they could keep the guys they want. There's no "this dollar is for player x and this other dollar is for player y", and if your argument relies on that, your argument is kind of dumb.

 

[Walshy7]

i think posters are arguing a chicken/egg situation here

Marleau had to go to fit in Marner, Johnsson and Kapanen. Not necessarily dollar for dollar but with marleau it would of had to been Marner OR kappy and johnsson without marleau we get all 3 (or at least should get all 3)

 

[Nylander88]

They cleared out the guys they didn't want so they could keep the guys they want. There's no "this dollar is for player x and this other dollar is for player y", and if your argument relies on that, your argument is kind of dumb.

Exactly. They cleared out. I said Dubas did a good job clearing the necessary space for Marner. To be told I was wrong and we cleared no space? We definitely trimmed the necessary fat
Barrie,Ceci,Harpur,Johnsson,Kerfoot, Kapanen (18.1) to Marleau,Zaitsev,Brown,Kadri, Rosen (18.1) is what I was told. So we cleared no space for marner we just have the same amount. This also compares a 6 man list in to a 5 man list out...which is kinda silly. And favourably doesn't count Hainsey and Gardiner @ 7mil in the out column. But we can still afford Marleau with Johnsson and Kapanen resigned, so I don't see how Marleau was cleared for them cuz he still fits. When you add Marner, Marleau doesn't fit or Johnsson and Kapanen don't fit (but that'd be looney to keep old man Marleau over Johnsson +Kap). So Marleau was cleared for Marner. It's really not a brain teaser

 

[zeke]

yeah to try and say certain contracts were moved specifically to sign certain player is obviously silly.

dubas cleared out all the bad contracts in order to sign the players he needed to keep. that's all.

he did such a good job of clearing that he even left himself some room to take a one year gamble on Ceci.

 

[Heisen]

Today, we start slamming Marner's sponsors with messages saying we no longer like this person, and will never buy products affiliated from him. Nowadays, sponsors drop people for nothing. Just a little bit of negative pressure from a couple dozen of us could get Mitch to start losing endorsements.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So you agree they cleared up space? Bingo again killing it today bro lol
@biotk said we didn't clear space for Marner. We have the same amount for Marner. Marleau was cleared just for Johnsson and Kapanen. You keep agreeing with everything I'm saying but it seems like you're not trying to? Did you read back at all or you just hopping right on in?lol

I hopped right in.

It seems I partly agree with both of you. The leafs needed cap space for all 3 of these players, so they cleared up cap space.

 

[Mess]

Ask yourself this? Why would another team invest in meetings, a lawyer and time/money of interaction with league to put together an offer they know Leafs will match? To help Mitch? I don't think so. Keep in mind most of league takes a month or two off in summer to enjoy life too.

They wouldn't and that is why nobody has given Marner an offersheet that they know Leafs would instantly match.. I'm not arguing they would.

I'm saying that if Marner wants $10.5 mil X 5 contract he would need to pull an Aho however to get an OS, because the Leafs are not offering him that themselves, and based on rumours they're willing to go to that rate based on 8 years but not 5 years.

Both sides might agree to $10.5 mil rate of pay, however the problem is the term here where Marner wants 5 years (with only 1 year of UFA status) and Leafs want 8 years (with 4 years of UFA status).

$10.5 mil X 5 and $10.5 mil X 8 are VERY different contract positions for player vs team evaluations.

 

[IPS]

Today, we start slamming Marner's sponsors with messages saying we no longer like this person, and will never buy products affiliated from him. Nowadays, sponsors drop people for nothing. Just a little bit of negative pressure from a couple dozen of us could get Mitch to start losing endorsements.

Not saying I agree with this but I absolutely cannot wait to see what a few certain posters have to say about this!!

 

[ACC1224]

So why wouldn't Dubas simply offer a 1 year deal for next year, and then Marner take the risk of a potential lockout?

All players that have 3 or more year deals, can't be avoided by Owners from paying during a work stoppage/lockout that they would be orchestrating themselves by locking the players out.

There is no benefit to an organization of a 2 year deal for Marner, unless the % of a lockout is low.

He wouldn't offer it because there is zero chance Marner would sign it.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Today, we start slamming Marner's sponsors with messages saying we no longer like this person, and will never buy products affiliated from him. Nowadays, sponsors drop people for nothing. Just a little bit of negative pressure from a couple dozen of us could get Mitch to start losing endorsements.

I know I plan on a string of hit-and-run collisions with any car insured by Intact.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Today, we start slamming Marner's sponsors with messages saying we no longer like this person, and will never buy products affiliated from him. Nowadays, sponsors drop people for nothing. Just a little bit of negative pressure from a couple dozen of us could get Mitch to start losing endorsements.

something along this vein came up in the main board thread yesterday - the shine seems to be coming off of the "hometown kid" persona that Marner had. I have a baby on the way, and his first Leafs jersey won't be a Marner jersey anymore (unless he signs a market rate deal and it turns out the Leafs were actually lowballing him or something) where that absolutely would have been the case, it'll be Rielly or Tavares likely now.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Leafs happy to wait until Day 1 after the season begins and are cap compliant.

When they put Horton on LTIR, they will sign Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

something along this vein came up in the main board thread yesterday - the shine seems to be coming off of the "hometown kid" persona that Marner had. I have a baby on the way, and his first Leafs jersey won't be a Marner jersey anymore (unless he signs a market rate deal and it turns out the Leafs were actually lowballing him or something) where that absolutely would have been the case, it'll be Rielly or Tavares likely now.

I've yet to see anyone have an issue with Marner other than here.
I think the views held here represent such a small percentage of the fan base that it really has no affect.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

It's come to my attention that people on this site will apparently get into drawn out arguments regarding just about anything.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I've yet to see anyone have an issue with Marner other than here.
I think the views held here represent such a small percentage of the fan base that it really has no affect.

maybe, I've heard it come up on a few sports radio shows as sort of content filler. I agree that memories are short for most people, but some of the call-ins on those shows were pretty sour on the subject

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not saying I agree with this but I absolutely cannot wait to see what a few certain posters have to say about this!!

I'll start by saying that it is not exactly an untrue statement.

He only has those endorsements in the first place because of Leafs fans who like and appreciate him. They are then more likely to buy that product or choose that brand over competitors. At least that is how marketing is supposed to work. If people decide they don't like him anymore (i.e. due to his holdout for example), that does transfer on the products they endorse as well. Consumers may decide to either actively look for alternatives out of spite, or simply choosing the product that makes the most sense to them regardless of who is endorsing it (which ultimately may lead to people not choosing that product over a competitor).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's come to my attention that people on this site will apparently get into drawn out arguments regarding just about anything.

I mean yeah? It's pretty obvious.

 

[ACC1224]

maybe, I've heard it come up on a few sports radio shows as sort of content filler. I agree that memories are short for most people, but some of the call-ins on those shows were pretty sour on the subject

I would think most of the ones following hockey so closely in the summer would be the ones listening to those shows.
The average fan isn't worrying about such things.

 

[Heisen]

If you are following my lead, make sure to CC your messages to Ferris and Marner himself. Added pressure when they know fans are actively messaging their sponsors.

I'd say to do the same thing with Ferris' other clients.. just start smacking their endorsers (if they even have any, lol).

Maybe we can get Mitch to fire the man.

 

[ACC1224]

It's come to my attention that people on this site will apparently get into drawn out arguments regarding just about anything.

It pays the bills!