Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[biotk]

Marleau-kadri-brown

zaitsev
(Rosen)

Vs

Johnsson-kerfoot-kapanen

Ceci-barrie
(Harpur)

Feel free to outline what cap space Dubas has freed up for Marner.

 

[zeke]

Feel free to outline what cap space Dubas has freed up for Marner.

Make it "freed for Marner, Kapanen, and johnsson".

 

[biotk]

Make it "freed for Marner, Kapanen, and johnsson".

Not the same thing at all. Dubas traded Marleau to free up money for Kapanen and Johnsson. The other two trades taken together were a wash. Not a cent has been freed up for Marner. Dubas could have (and he could going forward if he needs to) but he didn't - and there was no way that wasn't intentional. The team has a value figure for Marner and they are not budging on it.

 

[Cleetus]

Marleau-kadri-brown

zaitsev
(Rosen)

Vs

Johnsson-kerfoot-kapanen

Ceci-barrie
(Harpur)

he was not talking about the players, he was talking about the salary seems you are confused.....

 

[LaPlante94]

Pastrnak should have fired his agent. His contract stands out amongst all the recent RFA as the hugest underpay

Maybe he didn't care about the money? Him and Marchand contracts are both steals and both of them combined can be as much as Marners alone if the reported numbers are correct. They both out produced Bergeron yet took less money.

 

[ToDavid]

What cap space did Dubas clear out?

He essentially has the exact same amount of money to pay Marner as he did at the start of the summer (which is a good thing - as they decided how much Marner was worth and have stuck to it):

Traded Kadri, Rosen, Marleau, Zaitsev and Brown (18.1M)
Signed or traded for: Kerfoot, Barrie, Ceci, Harpur, Johnsson and Kapanen (18.1M)

And where do you think the space for Johnsson and Kapanen came from...

 

[Nineteen67]

I can't pretend to know,but some other poster mentioned the Horton ltir as a sticking point or hurdle to finalizing the deal(making it official). Wondering if there is something to that.

Timing is important . Hyman and Dermott can goon ITR to start as well. I don’t know if it factors into it or not

 

[biotk]

And where do you think the space for Johnsson and Kapanen came from...

Yes - as I have said - Marleau was traded to clear cap space for Johnsson and Kapanen. No cap space has been cleared to make more room for Marner which was the claim made.

 

[Nineteen67]

If the Marner deal was done already then signing him now would create more space because the Leafs could then put Horton on LTIR to create summer cap space. The Leafs can’t put Horton on LTIR now because it wouldn’t create summer cap space.

One would also think Marner would want the signing bonus portion of his salary as well.

Still, I think with the narrow parameters they have to work with that the framework is done by now.

 

[ToDavid]

Yes - as I have said - Marleau was traded to clear cap space for Johnsson and Kapanen. No cap space has been cleared to make more room for Marner which was the claim made.

You know exactly what we’re talking about. He cleared space to sign Marner without gutting our depth.

 

[mouser]

One would also think Marner would want the signing bonus portion of his salary as well.

Still, I think with the narrow parameters they have to work with that the framework is done by now.

I’m sure Marner wants a signing bonus as part of his contract, but that doesn’t change the summer cap math. There’s no incentive to delay a Marner signing for cap reasons.

 

[biotk]

You know exactly what we’re talking about. He cleared space to sign Marner without gutting our depth.

Exact same amount of money is available to sign Marner. If the Leafs pay him more a player like Johnsson or Kapanen would have to be moved out. So no, they didn't clear up a cent to sign Marner no matter how you want to spin it.

 

[Kiwi]

I’m sure Marner wants a signing bonus as part of his contract, but that doesn’t change the summer cap math. There’s no incentive to delay a Marner signing for cap reasons.

What about having to be cap compliant on the first day of the season before you can whack Horton on LTIR? Or isn't that a problem because of the summer 10% overage thing?

 

[hector morrison]

Timing is important . Hyman and Dermott can goon ITR to start as well. I don’t know if it factors into it or not

Don't think they should rely on that. I suppose there is always a chance that Dubas is waiting to see what other teams sign their RFA's for. The Aho signing only helped the Leafs position( I would think). So maybe waiting it out will bring in other comparisons to gauge Marners value(from a league wide perspective). The consensus seems to be that Marner will get the most money,so his peers are hoping he signs large. Or maybe the Habs try an offer on someone else. Maybe Dubas is just biding his time to get the best deal for the team ? So much curiosity from the hockey starved fan base!

 

[hector morrison]

I’m sure Marner wants a signing bonus as part of his contract, but that doesn’t change the summer cap math. There’s no incentive to delay a Marner signing for cap reasons.

Well ,if that isn't the hold up then maybe they aren't close. To me the matter is a simple one...Leafs either have enough money ,or they don't. If the money is agreeable,then that leaves the term as the hurdle. If there is more to it than that,then Dubas better start talkin trade.

 

[biotk]

Well ,if that isn't the hold up then maybe they aren't close.

That's my assumption.

 

[hector morrison]

That's my assumption.

Do you not find it odd that none of the other RFA's have signed? Or at least to have any kind of rumor as such ? I am curious as to what the hold up is? It's starting to become obvious (to me anyway) that Marners numbers are what everyone is waiting to hear. But,I think Aho through a wrench into the machine. Maybe it's just coincidental...but I doubt it!

 

[mouser]

What about having to be cap compliant on the first day of the season before you can whack Horton on LTIR? Or isn't that a problem because of the summer 10% overage thing?

Teams are allowed to use LTIR to be cap compliant on the final day of training camp before day 1. The math on how much relief a team can get from LTIR is different based on whether the LTIR is used during the regular season vs at the end of preseason. Capfriendly has a pretty good description of how the LTIR formulas work in each situation:
LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Given the current roster and the respective day 1 vs training camp formulas I don't see any benefits for the Leafs to delay a Marner signing if they have the contract worked out. The Leafs are already in a position to come close to maximizing the use of LTIR at the end of training camp, and the payroll right now makes it impossible to use LTIR on day 1 unless a several million dollar contract is shipped out or Marner takes a deal much lower then expected, something like $5m AAV.

 

[horner]

After a lot of thinking I’ve come to the conclusion that Matthews told Dubas either change the coach or Pay me; if you won’t I will sign the offer sheet. And there you have it or Matthews has incriminating pictures of Dubas other than that I can’t think of any other reason

If that was the case , is that the player that you wish to lead your team .

People on this form are comparing Marners to Aho s contract.

Both centers
Draisaidt 9 mil * 8 yrs caphit 8.5 mil
Vs
Mathews 11.6 mil * 5 yrs
3 mil difference on the cap hit

I know Leon had a breakout yr but a 3 mil difference.

At the end of 5 yrs Mathews says to Dubas give me 14 mil * 8 or I will leave.

He will be the highest paid player in the league.

Unless Mathews shows that he can be
- healthy
- be a top defensive player
- lead us to a cup
- One of the top point produce in the league

Then he won't be worth the contract

He really needs to show up this yr.

Because in 5 yrs he will be making
5 mil more than draisaidt
2 mil more than McDavid

I do think Dubas jumped the gun
On an 8 yr term 11.6 would have been fine

 

[TML Dynasty]

Odd arguments from posters I genuinely enjoy hearing from. We cleared space. Period. That allowed up to sign these guys and still have money left for a decent Marner contract. Why does it need to be earmarked for specific players??

 

[Damisoph]

We Leaf fans have the shittiest luck. Team finally figures it out, bottoms out and drafts well...and we're in this era of RFAs wanting what used to be UFA money. Woe is us.

 

[Peasy]

Maybe he didn't care about the money? Him and Marchand contracts are both steals and both of them combined can be as much as Marners alone if the reported numbers are correct. They both out produced Bergeron yet took less money.

Pasta didn't sign his deal until September, you really think he didn't care about the money? And Marchand signed that contract when he was a 50/60 point player, not a ppg one.

Why is it difficult for people to put things into context.

 

[hullsy47]

Well ,if that isn't the hold up then maybe they aren't close. To me the matter is a simple one...Leafs either have enough money ,or they don't. If the money is agreeable,then that leaves the term as the hurdle. If there is more to it than that,then Dubas better start talkin trade.

I agree ,the money marner wants just isnt there right now
I mean he could very well sign an 8 year 12 mill deal then u start unloading players to justify the player to be the face of a franchise
but my guess Shanahan likes his forward group and trading nylander for a couple draft picks to keep marner would be asinine.
I can see one of these high end RFA sitting a season
I think the GMs are starting to use there leverage
keep in mind THE PLAYERS voted for smaller escrow payments
hence smaller cap

 

[18leafsfan18]

If that was the case , is that the player that you wish to lead your team .

People on this form are comparing Marners to Aho s contract.

Both centers
Draisaidt 9 mil * 8 yrs caphit 8.5 mil
Vs
Mathews 11.6 mil * 5 yrs
3 mil difference on the cap hit

I know Leon had a breakout yr but a 3 mil difference.

At the end of 5 yrs Mathews says to Dubas give me 14 mil * 8 or I will leave.

He will be the highest paid player in the league.

Unless Mathews shows that he can be
- healthy
- be a top defensive player
- lead us to a cup
- One of the top point produce in the league

Then he won't be worth the contract

He really needs to show up this yr.

Because in 5 yrs he will be making
5 mil more than draisaidt
2 mil more than McDavid

I do think Dubas jumped the gun
On an 8 yr term 11.6 would have been fine

For 2 years he might be the highest paid player (no clue what will happen from now until then).

If he signs the 14 x 8 deal you mention he will be paid 14 for 6 years while McDavid will likely be closer to 15-20.

You can't just look at 1 side of the argument and complain about it. Same thing will happen both ways.

 

[18leafsfan18]

We Leaf fans have the ****tiest luck. Team finally figures it out, bottoms out and drafts well...and we're in this era of RFAs wanting what used to be UFA money. Woe is us.

They have an amazing team, worse case with Marner they get him or 4 1st round picks.

Leafs fans don't have the worst luck, they just complain the most.