Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[DueDiligence]

How can you say that .
Arizona would have

He has been injured for the last two seasons

My worry is that he has a fragile body.

Shoulder injuries
Concussion

Hope he has a healthy season

A big strong body guarantees nothing. Ask Lindos and the Gronk.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

How is it mind boggling? Mackinnon was trending toward bust until Rantanen was put on his line. How much were you expecting the Avs to give him? 10 mil? Yeah right. They would have been laughing stock of the league.

It's Mackinnon's fault he didn't bank on himself and take a shorter deal. Leave Nylander out of it.

Mackinnon will be paid accordingly when it's time. Nylander making more is temporary.

Now play that game with 34 goal/70 point Pastrnak.

And before you go to the predictable argument about only doing it one time... why don't I ever hear that argument in regards to Marner? He's constantly called a 94 point player. Nobody brings up that he scored in the 60's his other two seasons.

I DEMAND consistency on this. If Pastrnak didn't count as a 34 goal/70 point player because he only did it once, then i DEMAND consistency on that in regard to Marner's 94 piont season.

 

[IPS]

After a lot of thinking I’ve come to the conclusion that Matthews told Dubas either change the coach or Pay me; if you won’t I will sign the offer sheet. And there you have it or Matthews has incriminating pictures of Dubas other than that I can’t think of any other reason

Maybe that's why Dubas said that they are "all in" on Babcock

 

[Havoc]

Now play that game with 34 goal/70 point Pastrnak.

And before you go to the predictable argument about only doing it one time... why don't I ever hear that argument in regards to Marner? He's constantly called a 94 point player. Nobody brings up that he scored in the 60's his other two seasons.

I DEMAND consistency on this. If Pastrnak didn't count as a 34 goal/70 point player because he only did it once, then i DEMAND consistency on that in regard to Marner's 94 piont season.

Marner went 60 69 94. That's basically 70 and then a 94. Big difference from 20ish 20ish 70.

Marner is way ahead of Pastrnak coming out of their ELC.

Especially when our youth have to carry the team on their backs whereas Pastrnak has Marchand and Bergeron leading the way for him.

However it's no secret Pastrnak's contract ended up a steal which actually works against us. Gives this RFA crop even more reason to make sure potential is included in the salary.

 

[Nineteen67]

Doesn't help you at all in the cap world. Actually makes it worse. Just added another 600k to the team. Unless we are talking Nylander and Marner gone but that seems like a massive blow that wouldn't happen in any world

Tkachuk is worth the extra 600k. Marner would likely give up some of his ask for a chance to add this guy.

 

[zeke]

That's exactly the problem.

Dubas should have explained to Matthews that JT had earned his $11M for 7 by being a premier player for 9 years, and held his ground. But he got spooked by Nylander's holdout and Marner's refusal to negotiate mid-season, and decided to make AM the highest paid Leaf for a lousy 5 year term coming off a good but not spectacular ELC.

Why wouldn't Marner expect similar treatment?

The funny thing with this argument is that the Matthews deal is much much better deal than the Tavares deal.

The Matthews deal is golden. You put him on the market and every team is banging down the door with huge trade packages.

The Tavares deal is much more iffy. Trade market for him would be much less enthusiastic.

 

[zeke]

Marner went 60 69 94. That's basically 70 and then a 94. Big difference from 20ish 20ish 70.

Marner is way ahead of Pastrnak coming out of their ELC.

Especially when our youth have to carry the team on their backs whereas Pastrnak has Marchand and Bergeron leading the way for him.

However it's no secret Pastrnak's contract ended up a steal which actually works against us. Gives this RFA crop even more reason to make sure potential is included in the salary.

Pastrnak should have fired his agent. His contract stands out amongst all the recent RFA as the hugest underpay

 

[81Leafs50]

Marner is waiting for Dubas to cave, while Dubas is waiting for Marner to cave and lower his ask/accept.

Is Marner going to get his $10.5 mil or is Dubas going to get his 7-8 year term at that rate?

What are the % odds of each occurring?

Both will lose.

Short term deal for 9M

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner went 60 69 94. That's basically 70 and then a 94. Big difference from 20ish 20ish 70.

Marner is way ahead of Pastrnak coming out of their ELC.

Especially when our youth have to carry the team on their backs whereas Pastrnak has Marchand and Bergeron leading the way for him.

However it's no secret Pastrnak's contract ended up a steal which actually works against us. Gives this RFA crop even more reason to make sure potential is included in the salary.

I wasn't comparing Pastrnak's elc to MARNER'S. I was comparing it to Nylanders. And in those comparison threads, Pastrnaks final season was CONSTANTLY called an outlier compared to his first 2 seasons. Afterall, I was told that's what ALWAYS happens when a final elc season is far better than the first two.

I'm going to be CONSISTENT with that, and say that this should also apply to Marner's final season.

Also, if Pastrnaks linemates are considered part of the equation when comparing to Nylander, then in being CONSISTENT with that, compare Marner's linemates to Aho's. Aho just signed for 8.5x5.

i DEMAND consistency on that. i DEMAND it.

 

[Nylander88]

Tkachuk is worth the extra 600k. Marner would likely give up some of his ask for a chance to add this guy.

While I agree with the worth the extra 600k comment, Marner isn't budging for anyone. Kid wants his payday. He doesn't care if he has to play with Marlies. Marner has made it super clear he's not interested in any discounts to help the team. If winning was priority he would already be signed to a very fair and reasonable contract. Getting paid is priority. Tkachuk doesn't and wouldn't change that

 

[PromisedLand]

Maybe that's why Dubas said that they are "all in" on Babcock

I wonder with the roster changes if the teams GudPro/60 increased or decreased; Babcock will have someone to blame then

 

[LeafSteel]

I wasn't comparing Pastrnak's elc to MARNER'S. I was comparing it to Nylanders. And in those comparison threads, Pastrnaks final season was CONSTANTLY called an outlier compared to his first 2 seasons. Afterall, I was told that's what ALWAYS happens when a final elc season is far better than the first two.

I'm going to be CONSISTENT with that, and say that this should also apply to Marner's final season.

Also, if Pastrnaks linemates are considered part of the equation when comparing to Nylander, then in being CONSISTENT with that, compare Marner's linemates to Aho's. Aho just signed for 8.5x5.

i DEMAND consistency on that. i DEMAND it.

Are you drinking or do you just think you are being funny?

Either way, you aren’t making yourself look good.

 

[Legion34]

I wasn't comparing Pastrnak's elc to MARNER'S. I was comparing it to Nylanders. And in those comparison threads, Pastrnaks final season was CONSTANTLY called an outlier compared to his first 2 seasons. Afterall, I was told that's what ALWAYS happens when a final elc season is far better than the first two.

I'm going to be CONSISTENT with that, and say that this should also apply to Marner's final season.

Also, if Pastrnaks linemates are considered part of the equation when comparing to Nylander, then in being CONSISTENT with that, compare Marner's linemates to Aho's. Aho just signed for 8.5x5.

i DEMAND consistency on that. i DEMAND it.

Hahahahaahajaha you are back to DEMANDING things? Are you worried Marners contract will be PSCHOTICALLY BAD?

How you spent months arguing and didn’t get the whole point is just ridiculous. Pasternak and Nylander’s ENTIRE body of work was considered.

They had similar PPG. Pasternak had like 14 more goals over 150 ish games..... nylander had the better pedigree. Pastrnak caved. Nylander didn’t. And still got less.

Marners ENTIRE body of work will be compared against the rest in entire bodies of work

 

[Jozay]

I wonder how realistic a 2/3 year bridge worth 7.5-8 million a year would be?

Would allow the Leafs to bring back Gardiner on a short term deal in the 4.5 million range or bring in another dman via trade around the same salary.

 

[LeafChief]

Mirtle on the Steve Dangle Podcast today. Some tidbits about Marner.

Nothing earth shattering but he is clear that Marner wants to stay in Toronto. Marner does not want to play for other teams. Believes he's getting bad advice from his father and agent.

 

[hector morrison]

Mirtle on the Steve Dangle Podcast today. Some tidbits about Marner.

Nothing earth shattering but he is clear that Marner wants to stay in Toronto. Marner does not want to play for other teams. Believes he's getting bad advice from his father and agent.

How could he know what that advice is? Edumacated guess? There is no offer sheet so Kyle should lay it on the line!

It really should be a simple matter...mathematically speaking. Dubas opens the books and says 'see,this is what we can afford...no tricks,just plain old common sense...you in Mitch?' . The response should be 'yes,I'm in" . I can understand the term being a sticking point ,but not a great impasse. There must be some other details that are causing the hold up,because this should be done deal.

 

[Nylander88]

How could he know what that advice is? Edumacated guess? There is no offer sheet so Kyle should lay it on the line!

It really should be a simple matter...mathematically speaking. Dubas opens the books and says 'see,this is what we can afford...no tricks,just plain old common sense...you in Mitch?' . The response should be 'yes,I'm in" . I can understand the term being a sticking point ,but not a great impasse. There must be some other details that are causing the hold up,because this should be done deal.

Agreed. Kyle has done a great job clearing the necessary space for Mitch. He's cleared enough to give him a FAIR deal. This is what we have, and it falls in line with your worth. In or out? I think Dubas did a great job in clearing cap space while making the window narrrow. He didn't leave 12 mil kicking for Marner to eyeball. He set the table for something that starts with a 9, and that's what's fair based on his comparables

 

[Nineteen67]

How could he know what that advice is? Edumacated guess? There is no offer sheet so Kyle should lay it on the line!

It really should be a simple matter...mathematically speaking. Dubas opens the books and says 'see,this is what we can afford...no tricks,just plain old common sense...you in Mitch?' . The response should be 'yes,I'm in" . I can understand the term being a sticking point ,but not a great impasse. There must be some other details that are causing the hold up,because this should be done deal.

Exactly. Unless there is something we don’t know about I can’t see why there would be a holdup.

I think the deal is done and they are waiting to keep the summer cap open or something in that vein.

 

[hector morrison]

Agreed. Kyle has done a great job clearing the necessary space for Mitch. He's cleared enough to give him a FAIR deal. This is what we have, and it falls in line with your worth. In or out? I think Dubas did a great job in clearing cap space while making the window narrrow. He didn't leave 12 mil kicking for Marner to eyeball. He set the table for something that starts with a 9, and that's what's fair based on his comparables

I hope you're correct in that assumption....the term /freedom factor might be the hurdle.

 

[hector morrison]

Exactly. Unless there is something we don’t know about I can’t see why there would be a holdup.

I think the deal is done and they are waiting to keep the summer cap open or something in that vein.

I can't pretend to know,but some other poster mentioned the Horton ltir as a sticking point or hurdle to finalizing the deal(making it official). Wondering if there is something to that.

 

[mouser]

Exactly. Unless there is something we don’t know about I can’t see why there would be a holdup.

I think the deal is done and they are waiting to keep the summer cap open or something in that vein.

If the Marner deal was done already then signing him now would create more space because the Leafs could then put Horton on LTIR to create summer cap space. The Leafs can’t put Horton on LTIR now because it wouldn’t create summer cap space.

 

[biotk]

Agreed. Kyle has done a great job clearing the necessary space for Mitch. He's cleared enough to give him a FAIR deal. This is what we have, and it falls in line with your worth. In or out? I think Dubas did a great job in clearing cap space while making the window narrrow. He didn't leave 12 mil kicking for Marner to eyeball. He set the table for something that starts with a 9, and that's what's fair based on his comparables

What cap space did Dubas clear out?

He essentially has the exact same amount of money to pay Marner as he did at the start of the summer (which is a good thing - as they decided how much Marner was worth and have stuck to it):

Traded Kadri, Rosen, Marleau, Zaitsev and Brown (18.1M)
Signed or traded for: Kerfoot, Barrie, Ceci, Harpur, Johnsson and Kapanen (18.1M)

 

[IPS]

Mirtle on the Steve Dangle Podcast today. Some tidbits about Marner.

Nothing earth shattering but he is clear that Marner wants to stay in Toronto. Marner does not want to play for other teams. Believes he's getting bad advice from his father and agent.

Shades of Willy getting bad advice from Michael and Lewis Gross

 

[hfman]

Guess what!!!

Tavares is a Leaf!

 

[zeke]

What cap space did Dubas clear out?

He essentially has the exact same amount of money to pay Marner as he did at the start of the summer (which is a good thing - as they decided how much Marner was worth and have stuck to it):

Traded Kadri, Rosen, Marleau, Zaitsev and Brown (18.1M)
Signed or traded for: Kerfoot, Barrie, Ceci, Harpur, Johnsson and Kapanen (18.1M)

Marleau-kadri-brown

zaitsev
(Rosen)

Vs

Johnsson-kerfoot-kapanen

Ceci-barrie
(Harpur)