Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Havoc]

Toronto paying Nylander more then him and Pastrnak is mindboggling...

How is it mind boggling? Mackinnon was trending toward bust until Rantanen was put on his line. How much were you expecting the Avs to give him? 10 mil? Yeah right. They would have been laughing stock of the league.

It's Mackinnon's fault he didn't bank on himself and take a shorter deal. Leave Nylander out of it.

Mackinnon will be paid accordingly when it's time. Nylander making more is temporary.

 

[horner]

That's a massive lowball for Rantanen. Funny how most of these comparables are likely looking for Aho money and our guy wants Matthews money. We have the opposite issue of most of these teams. Our guys get top dollar, and these other guys top players are on great contracts so they don't want to pay the kids above their stars (Gaudreau, MacKinnon etc have very team friendly deals)

Do you really thinks Mathews is worth 5*11.6?
There's the problem

 

[ajp4to]

How is it mind boggling? Mackinnon was trending toward bust until Rantanen was put on his line. How much were you expecting the Avs to give him? 10 mil? Yeah right. They would have been laughing stock of the league.

It's Mackinnon's fault he didn't bank on himself and take a shorter deal. Leave Nylander out of it.

Mackinnon will be paid accordingly when it's time. Nylander making more is temporary.

I was comparing the posters mention of Gaudreau and added Pastrnak to the discussion; but Ok, how isn't it mindboggling that they gave Nylander more than Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchment, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Schiefele, Monahan etc etc etc...

 

[horner]

How is it mind boggling? Mackinnon was trending toward bust until Rantanen was put on his line. How much were you expecting the Avs to give him? 10 mil? Yeah right. They would have been laughing stock of the league.

It's Mackinnon's fault he didn't bank on himself and take a shorter deal. Leave Nylander out of it.

Mackinnon will be paid accordingly when it's time. Nylander making more is temporary.

I agree he had 51 pts then signed his 6.3 mil deal.
He had 153 pts in 218 GM's.
Fair contract for his production up to that point.
People need to look at there stats when the signed there deals , can't compare MacKinnon to alot of these RFA's most of there production have blown him out of the water at the time of his signing.
As you said he should have signed a bridge if he was confident that his game was going where it is today.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Age

C Point 23
W Rantanen 23
W Connor 23

C Matthews 22
C Aho 22
W Marner 22
W Boeser 22
W Tkachuk 22

W Laine 21


ELC performances:

Scoring

ES p/60

1.Matthews 2.60
2.Marner 2.33
3.Point 2.20
4.Boeser 2.14
5.Connor 2.00
5.Tkachuk 2.00
5.Aho 2.00
8.Rantanen 1.98
9.Laine 1.86

ES p1/60

1.Matthews 2.29
2.Marner 1.90
3.Point 1.77
4.Boeser 1.73
5.Connor 1.60
6.Laine 1.57
7.Tkachuk 1.56
8.Aho 1.52
9.Rantanen 1.44

ES g/60

1.Matthews 1.56
2.Boeser 1.16
3.Laine 1.06
4.Point 0.98
5.Connor 0.95
6.Aho 0.81
7.Marner 0.80
8.Tkachuk 0.74
9.Rantanen 0.73


PP p/60

1.Marner 7.02
2.Matthews 6.31
3.Point 5.79
4.Rantanen 5.67
5.Boeser 5.56
6.Laine 5.31
7.Tkachuk 5.30
8.Aho 5.07
9.Connor 3.71

PP p1/60

1.Matthews 4.90
2.Marner 4.59
3.Laine 4.40
4.Rantanen 4.20
5.Tkachuk 3.95
6.Boeser 3.89
7.Aho 3.47
8.Point 3.44
9.Connor 2.73

PP g/60

1.Laine 3.34
2.Matthews 3.05
3.Point 2.80
4.Boeser 2.50
5.Tkachuk 2.41
6.Rantanen 2.38
7.Connor 2.18
8.Aho 1.69
9.Marner 1.37



Impact

ES TOI

1.Matthews 15:14
2.Rantanen 15:07
3.Aho 14:40
4.Point 14:39
5.Boeser 14:36
6.Marner 14:19
7.Connor 14:09
8.Laine 13:40
9.Tkachuk 13:18

ES QOC

1.Rantanen A+
2.Point A
2.Aho A
4.Matthews A
5.Connor A
6.Marner A
7.Tkachuk B+
8.Boeser B
9.Laine B

ES CF%

1.Tkachuk 56.8
2.Aho 54.6
3.Point 52.4
4.Matthews 51.5
5.Marner 50.6
6.Rantanen 49.9
7.Connor 49.1
8.Boeser 48.0
9.Laine 47.9

ES CF REL

1.Tkachuk +6.0
2.Aho +2.1
3.Rantanen +1.6
4.Boeser +0.8
5.Matthews +0.8
6.Point +0.4
7.Marner -0.5
8.Connor -2.1
9.Laine -3,4

ES XGF%

1.Aho 54.5
2.Tkachuk 53.9
3.Point 53.1
4.Matthews 53.0
5.Marner 51.1
6.Connor 48.7
7.Boeser 48.4
8.Rantanen 47.0
9.Laine 46.0

ES XGF REL

1.Tkachuk +3.9
2.Boeser +3.3
3.Matthews +2.2
4.Aho +1.4
5.Point +0.8
6.Marner -0.0
7.Rantanen -1.0
8.Connor -2.6
9.Laine -6.6

Yup. Matches the eye test too. Matthews is the superior talent. It's inarguable yet some people do. There isn't a GM in the league that would take Marner over Matthews. Only the armchair ones.

 

[supermann_98]

MacKinnon signed his contract after two very inconsistent seasons and then blew up points wise after he signed his deal.

Our guys all had huge rookie and sophomore seasons, which handcuffed us come contract time.
I think if you wanna guy to sign cheap you kinda gotta hope he sucks his first couple years

 

[Nineteen67]

I’ll be glad when marner signs so when Matthews misses his usual 20 games .or so to injury mitch can keep getting his points like he has done the last two years.

Posters act like losing Mitch is no big deal.

Without Marner, they may not make the playoffs.

With him the O/U on points is around 102.5 - what would it be without him? Montreal missed last year with 96 points.

 

[Havoc]

I was comparing the posters mention of Gaudreau and added Pastrnak to the discussion; but Ok, how isn't it mindboggling that they gave Nylander more than Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchment, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Schiefele, Monahan etc etc etc...

Context matters.

Look at Scheifele's stats when he signed. Garbage compared to Nylander. Nylander as a rookie was better than Mackinnon when he signed his new 6.3 contract. (edit- Realized I set myself up here for some of the usual suspects to accuse me of saying Nylander > Mackinnon...That's not what this means).


What's the need for this topic to become anti-Nylander? Leave the guy out of it. His 6.9 mil salary has no relevance to this crop of RFA's.

 

[ajp4to]

Yup. Matches the eye test too. Matthews is the superior talent. It's inarguable yet some people do. There isn't a GM in the league that would take Marner over Matthews. Only the armchair ones.

If Matthews was put on the market today there would be at least 24 teams bidding for his services, and gladly give up 4 firsts to get him. Teams willing to give up (8.5 and up) cap space and 4- firsts for Marner a big fat ZERO...

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Yes it is. Does Colorado want to piss over MAC? Does Tampa want to jump over Kuch? Every team has its best player and these young kids are going to have to fall into line. I think Point and Marner have best cases because they are each teams #2 and very close to top of food chain. I can't see Point being any less then 0.5M from Kuch so 9M seems right to me. Marner maybe 1M less then Matty so 10.5M seems right. But Ranta at same AAV as MAC does not make sense. So less than 6.3M for him. He might be the next guy for an OS. 8.5M gets him for sure. and Colorado takes the picks.

If this is true Colorado is stupid.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'd take Tkachuk at a 7.5mil long term offer-sheet and say bye to Marner in a heartbeat. Brings an element we don't have, and would be a sizeable cap savings on what Marner's demands are

Ideally they’d replace Nylander with Tkachuk @ 7.5, but that would be way too perfect.

 

[horner]

I’ll be glad when marner signs so when Matthews misses his usual 20 games .or so to injury mitch can keep getting his points like he has done the last two years.

Posters act like losing Mitch is no big deal.

I agree with you.

But people will come back to games/points

Mitch is a special player
- injury free ( Mathews isn't )
- pk ( and getting better ) ( Mathews dosent pk )
- incredible passer one of the best in the league.
-PP ( runs through him )
Plays a complete 200 ' games ,( Mathews does when he feels like it )

Replaceable not so sure .

People on this board getting all fuzzy over an offer sheet and 4 1st Rd pks . Wow

As the kid gets stronger the better he will become.

Mathews is a grt player but don't discount what Marners has achieved and becoming.

 

[ajp4to]

Ideally they’d replace Nylander with Tkachuk’s @ 7.5, but that would be way too perfect.

The leafs would have to include a first-rounder with Nylander to get Tkachuk's jockstrap...

 

[Havoc]

Yes it is. Does Colorado want to piss over MAC? Does Tampa want to jump over Kuch? Every team has its best player and these young kids are going to have to fall into line. I think Point and Marner have best cases because they are each teams #2 and very close to top of food chain. I can't see Point being any less then 0.5M from Kuch so 9M seems right to me. Marner maybe 1M less then Matty so 10.5M seems right. But Ranta at same AAV as MAC does not make sense. So less than 6.3M for him. He might be the next guy for an OS. 8.5M gets him for sure. and Colorado takes the picks.

Look at Mac's and Landeskog's production pre and with Rantanen.

You'll be amazed.

This trio is Colorado's life line. Sakic is out of luck here.

Mackinnon got paid for his seasons BEFORE Rantanen era. This includes following up a 6.3 mil contract with 16 goals. and 53 points. Rantanen is getting paid as a 80+ point essential component towards making the playoffs. Avs have no case for Rantanen to be paid in the 6-7 mil range. As I said above, it's Mackinnon's fault he didn't bank on himself and take a shorter deal. Why does Rantanen have to suffer for that? Dude is a beast and deserves his 9+ mil just like Point (tied Kucherov career high in goals as a 23 year old and is a C) and Marner do.

Anywhere between 8.5-10.5 is fair for either of the 3.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Point will sign for less then Stamkos and Ranta will sign in mid 7s, as the Avs have already cleared that payment with Mackinnon. The only one that will take this to Dec is: Mr. Loyal leaf and home town boy who will keep demanding 3+ million overpayment, and destroy any chance of leafs contenting for the next 5 years.

Kicked puppy? Jilted girlfriend? Steal your lollipop?

 

[Havoc]

The leafs would have to include a first-rounder with Nylander to get Tkachuk's jockstrap...

edit- Site I used for the stats got it wrong. Next sentence still stands.

Keep trolling with your shallow comments though.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

What is striking this year is the big divides between what guys are asking for and what teams are offering. I can't ever remember the deltas being so huge. Tampa and Toronto are really up against it and can't afford to get into an escalation exercise.

Too late. Dubas already let the overpay ship set sail. He let the escalation horse out of the barn.

<Insert other colourful metaphors here>.

 

[horner]

If Matthews was put on the market today there would be at least 24 teams bidding for his services, and gladly give up 4 firsts to get him. Teams willing to give up (8.5 and up) cap space and 4- firsts for Marner a big fat ZERO...

How can you say that .
Arizona would have

He has been injured for the last two seasons

My worry is that he has a fragile body.

Shoulder injuries
Concussion

Hope he has a healthy season

 

[egd27]

Do you really thinks Mathews is worth 5*11.6?
There's the problem

That's exactly the problem.

Dubas should have explained to Matthews that JT had earned his $11M for 7 by being a premier player for 9 years, and held his ground. But he got spooked by Nylander's holdout and Marner's refusal to negotiate mid-season, and decided to make AM the highest paid Leaf for a lousy 5 year term coming off a good but not spectacular ELC.

Why wouldn't Marner expect similar treatment?

 

[PromisedLand]

This marathon thread topic has so much in common with this TV show.

The threads about nothing

 

[PromisedLand]

Do you really thinks Mathews is worth 5*11.6?
There's the problem

After a lot of thinking I’ve come to the conclusion that Matthews told Dubas either change the coach or Pay me; if you won’t I will sign the offer sheet. And there you have it or Matthews has incriminating pictures of Dubas other than that I can’t think of any other reason

 

[stopclickbait]

I'd take Tkachuk at a 7.5mil long term offer-sheet and say bye to Marner in a heartbeat. Brings an element we don't have, and would be a sizeable cap savings on what Marner's demands are

As a big Tkachuk homer I love to see this, kid is a beast and would be so much cheaper.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[mouser]

If any are curious, by my calculations the Leafs have $11,087,613 in available summer cap space right now. Included against that cap space are all 1-way contracts, 2-way contracts based on the % of time the player was in the NHL last season, and retained salary.

That includes Marincin, but not Agostino or Wilson.

It does look like Toronto may be intentionally delaying officially announcing any new contracts until Marner is signed so they don't eat into that available summer cap space further. Which could explain why we haven't seen official confirmations on the above contracts.

 

[Nylander88]

Do you really thinks Mathews is worth 5*11.6?
There's the problem

Personally? Yeah. A young 6'3" center that when healthy throws up 40 plus goals for a joke? Yeah. He's a unicorn. You pay the man.

 

[Nylander88]

Ideally they’d replace Nylander with Tkachuk @ 7.5, but that would be way too perfect.

Doesn't help you at all in the cap world. Actually makes it worse. Just added another 600k to the team. Unless we are talking Nylander and Marner gone but that seems like a massive blow that wouldn't happen in any world