Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Wo Yorfat]

No other 70 point player has signed for 14-15% of the cap post elc. That is a FACT!!!!

You seem so scared of this fact that you just ignore it and argue against something else entirely.

Please formulate a list of players worth paying a higher AAV than Matthews from 2019-2024 (not including the implied value of future value).

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

No other 70 point player has signed for 14-15% of the cap post elc. That is a FACT!!!!

You seem so scared of this fact that you just ignore it and argue against something else entirely.

If it makes you feel better he's averaged closer to 80 points (just under) per 82 games and scores goals at a generational rate (Up there with Gretzky, Lindros, Ovechkin, Selanne when it comes to scoring at even strength (era adjusted)).

 

[TML1967]

Trade him.

Trade him before he gets offer sheeted and we are stuck with 4 1sts that will end up being all in the second half of the 1st round.

Target Carolina.

Pesce, Teravainen, Gauthier for Marner and Timashov.
9.43mx5years for the both of them combined, Gauthier with the Marlies.

Target Philadelphia

Patrick, Sanheim, Konecny for Marner and Bracco.

Patrick last year of ELC, Sanheim has 2 years at 3.25x2, and Konecny sign for 6 years at 5.25 (EW projection) so 9.5m total.

Whatever trade works, just move the guy. If he wanted to be here he would have signed. At this point, he is gonna wait till the season is about to start which is the worst time for us for an offersheet. Or until the season has begun, and we cant afford him once his year 1 salary bumps up without moving a big contract out which other teams will know we have to do, so we will get a crappy return.

 

[Notsince67]

to call someone inept statistically because they ignore raw points as a statistic requires you to be....er....statistically inept.

Yeah...probably not.
Im pretty sure im good. Ill keep imperical point trends over corsi any day. Ill also watch how the game is played.

 

[AustrianHockeyfan]

Trade him.

Trade him before he gets offer sheeted and we are stuck with 4 1sts that will end up being all in the second half of the 1st round.

Target Carolina.

Pesce, Teravainen, Gauthier for Marner and Timashov.
9.43mx5years for the both of them combined, Gauthier with the Marlies.

Target Philadelphia

Patrick, Sanheim, Konecny for Marner and Bracco.

Patrick last year of ELC, Sanheim has 2 years at 3.25x2, and Konecny sign for 6 years at 5.25 (EW projection) so 9.5m total.

Whatever trade works, just move the guy. If he wanted to be here he would have signed. At this point, he is gonna wait till the season is about to start which is the worst time for us for an offersheet. Or until the season has begun, and we cant afford him once his year 1 salary bumps up without moving a big contract out which other teams will know we have to do, so we will get a crappy return.

If we trade him we should target like a really good young D (even if we have to add)

 

[Subway Schenn]

If we trade him we should target like a really good young D (even if we have to add)

Marner and Liljegren for Rasmus Dahlin.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Trade him.

Trade him before he gets offer sheeted and we are stuck with 4 1sts that will end up being all in the second half of the 1st round.

Target Carolina.

Pesce, Teravainen, Gauthier for Marner and Timashov.
9.43mx5years for the both of them combined, Gauthier with the Marlies.

Target Philadelphia

Patrick, Sanheim, Konecny for Marner and Bracco.

Patrick last year of ELC, Sanheim has 2 years at 3.25x2, and Konecny sign for 6 years at 5.25 (EW projection) so 9.5m total.

Whatever trade works, just move the guy. If he wanted to be here he would have signed. At this point, he is gonna wait till the season is about to start which is the worst time for us for an offersheet. Or until the season has begun, and we cant afford him once his year 1 salary bumps up without moving a big contract out which other teams will know we have to do, so we will get a crappy return.

Marner likely doesn’t want to be traded to those cities, so it wouldnt work. Those gm’s would talk to Marner first, and he could just insist he won’t sign for anything less than 12x5 or something. Toronto doesn’t want to pay 12x5 for Marner, and neither does any other team.

Why would a team give up all of those assets to acquire a player who's sitting out with unreasonable contract demands?

 

[zeke]

Yeah...probably not.
Im pretty sure im good. Ill keep imperical point trends over corsi any day. Ill also watch how the game is played.

Yeah maybe I should start watching hockey games too. Never tried that before.

 

[horner]

For those that wish to trade Marner .
Looking back at JT career
He has scored over 30 goals 4 times .
38, 37, 33 and 31

Under a point/game player throughout his career.

If you like watching JT score at the rate he is .
You may want to keep him around.

 

[Mess]

For those that wish to trade Marner .
Looking back at JT career
He has scored over 30 goals 4 times .
38, 37, 33 and 31

Under a point/game player throughout his career.

If you like watching JT score at the rate he is .
You may want to keep him around.

That is Marner's case and leverage to claim he is validating the JT signing and contract at $11 mil..

Johnny can continue to score more goals and be a PPG player with Marner as his wingman, and Ferris/Marner are certainly making that case why Mitch deserves to be paid like JT and AM as a result.

Without Marner driving the lines offense Tavares is likely +$2 mil overpaid and more like a $9 mil player not $11 mil.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Trade him.

Trade him before he gets offer sheeted and we are stuck with 4 1sts that will end up being all in the second half of the 1st round.

Target Carolina.

Pesce, Teravainen, Gauthier for Marner and Timashov.
9.43mx5years for the both of them combined, Gauthier with the Marlies.

Target Philadelphia

Patrick, Sanheim, Konecny for Marner and Bracco.

Patrick last year of ELC, Sanheim has 2 years at 3.25x2, and Konecny sign for 6 years at 5.25 (EW projection) so 9.5m total.

Whatever trade works, just move the guy. If he wanted to be here he would have signed. At this point, he is gonna wait till the season is about to start which is the worst time for us for an offersheet. Or until the season has begun, and we cant afford him once his year 1 salary bumps up without moving a big contract out which other teams will know we have to do, so we will get a crappy return.

From what I have heard Carolina and Leafs were good to go with a trade but Marner was the stumbling block. He was not willing to accept a reasonable offer from Carolina. Bottom line going to Carolina for 11M+ AAV and zero sponsorship will never ever happen. You can dream up whatever trade you want. Compare it to Leafs at 10M AAV for 8 years and 3.5M sponsorship deals and Marner is losing his shirt going to Carolina. This is all about the $$$. It is a very complex negotiation because the Leafs control the AAV and the owners of Leafs are the key sponsors. Bottom line is Toronto deal WILL GET done at some point. But no one is in a rush here. It is summer best to enjoy a few brews.

 

[Gradin]

Greetings Leafs fans. I'm going to be up front here. By my name some of you old timers may figure out I'm a Canucks fan...but I'm also someone who moved from Van City as a child and has lived on Long Island, New York since the 70's and am a bigtime Islanders fan. Before you grab your pitchforks, and while recognizing I'm not supposed to come here, I want to make it clear I come in peace. I just want to give you the impression from the outside, and as a fan of a team who would love to find a way to poach MM from you. Not as vendetta for what JT did (OK, maybe a little) but because of the player and how he would help take the Isles to the next level. Having said all that most of us believe Marner has absolutely no interest in moving on. Makes zero sense. JT went home to become a Hero, why the Hell would Marner split from where he's already a hero to become a Villain? He'll get his money. It's a game of chicken that will play itself out...with MM in a Leafs uniform. Will it be 3,4 years or the 6,7,8 that the Leafs want? Dunno. That's why chicken games are played. In no way do I believe Marner's camp will let this get to a point where the bridge is so burned they trade him. If Dubas pushes this to that place as a ploy, and does it well, it is Marner who will cave. Yes he may use a team like the Islanders or anyone else who may submit an OS as leverage (we're used to that after seeing what Panarin did). But I do have a question. Obviously you guys have made some moves already trying to clear space. I'm curious, though, when push comes to shove and Marner gets his double digit millions who are the candidates to be moved if they have to clear more space? Or can Dubas do this circuitously through more moves like the Clarkson trade without having to touch his roster? A quick note on JT. I know from the outside it appeared that we are Neanderthals, and I'm not going to disagree that some Islanders fans behaved as such. But you'd really need to understand the entire context of what went on and how it played out to grasp that the animosity came from a truly legitimate place, and most of us expressed it appropriately. The level of behavior you saw from some Islanders fans way exaggerated it, but again you'd need to know all the ins and outs. If you did you might understand better where it came from. I will not respond as I want to get in and get out of here given my stated allegiances and understanding of the climate between our fanbases. Cheers!

 

[al secord]

Well if your argument is that it is unprecedented. sure. Auston Matthews is the only Auston Matthews who signed for 11.634 x 5.

Connor mcdavid is the only player to sign for 12.5 x 8. So he is also unprecedented.

That doesn’t make it bad. .

So your argument is that Matthews is overpaid because he is unprecedented?

Except. A much worse player with much worse totals got a very similar cap.

So you are wrong. Like PSYCHOTICALLY wrong.

Or you are INCONSISTENT

I DEMAND CONSISTENCY

I thoroughly enjoyed this.

 

[ACC1224]

From what I have heard Carolina and Leafs were good to go with a trade but Marner was the stumbling block. He was not willing to accept a reasonable offer from Carolina. Bottom line going to Carolina for 11M+ AAV and zero sponsorship will never ever happen. You can dream up whatever trade you want. Compare it to Leafs at 10M AAV for 8 years and 3.5M sponsorship deals and Marner is losing his shirt going to Carolina. This is all about the $$$. It is a very complex negotiation because the Leafs control the AAV and the owners of Leafs are the key sponsors. Bottom line is Toronto deal WILL GET done at some point. But no one is in a rush here. It is summer best to enjoy a few brews.

Yep, Mitch pretty much has a NTC.
No Team will trade for a player who won't sign with them.
While this makes the Offer Sheet leverage a bit of sham(he was never going to sign one), not agreeing to sign if traded does give him that leverage.

Like you say there is no rush and from what I understand, no animosity. It will play out and Marner will be a Leaf next season.

 

[Nineteen67]

From what I have heard Carolina and Leafs were good to go with a trade but Marner was the stumbling block. He was not willing to accept a reasonable offer from Carolina. Bottom line going to Carolina for 11M+ AAV and zero sponsorship will never ever happen. You can dream up whatever trade you want. Compare it to Leafs at 10M AAV for 8 years and 3.5M sponsorship deals and Marner is losing his shirt going to Carolina. This is all about the $$$. It is a very complex negotiation because the Leafs control the AAV and the owners of Leafs are the key sponsors. Bottom line is Toronto deal WILL GET done at some point. But no one is in a rush here. It is summer best to enjoy a few brews.

Trade him to Nashville.

 

[al secord]

I do if he's thinking it's time to quit work, grab a can of Stella and go float in the pool before dinner.

As true now as it was yesterday.

 

[ACC1224]

As true now as it was yesterday.

Need to pay some bills first.....eta is 2;30.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Trade him to Nashville.

Great idea will Nashville pay him 13.5M in AAV? and for 5 years. will they be willing to give up 4 1st rounders for 5 years of service? or give us their best defense, top winger and a 1st rounder? Folks this is NEVER going to happen. All the talk has occurred already. All that is left to do is Ferris to nickel and dime Leafs for a little more. and everyone enjoy their brews. It is not too exciting but that is the reality here.

 

[Peasy]

Trade him.

Trade him before he gets offer sheeted and we are stuck with 4 1sts that will end up being all in the second half of the 1st round.

Target Carolina.

Pesce, Teravainen, Gauthier for Marner and Timashov.
9.43mx5years for the both of them combined, Gauthier with the Marlies.

Target Philadelphia

Patrick, Sanheim, Konecny for Marner and Bracco.

Patrick last year of ELC, Sanheim has 2 years at 3.25x2, and Konecny sign for 6 years at 5.25 (EW projection) so 9.5m total.

Whatever trade works, just move the guy. If he wanted to be here he would have signed. At this point, he is gonna wait till the season is about to start which is the worst time for us for an offersheet. Or until the season has begun, and we cant afford him once his year 1 salary bumps up without moving a big contract out which other teams will know we have to do, so we will get a crappy return.

Hes not getting offersheeted lol.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Greetings Leafs fans. I'm going to be up front here. By my name some of you old timers may figure out I'm a Canucks fan...but I'm also someone who moved from Van City as a child and has lived on Long Island, New York since the 70's and am a bigtime Islanders fan. Before you grab your pitchforks, and while recognizing I'm not supposed to come here, I want to make it clear I come in peace. I just want to give you the impression from the outside, and as a fan of a team who would love to find a way to poach MM from you. Not as vendetta for what JT did (OK, maybe a little) but because of the player and how he would help take the Isles to the next level. Having said all that most of us believe Marner has absolutely no interest in moving on. Makes zero sense. JT went home to become a Hero, why the Hell would Marner split from where he's already a hero to become a Villain? He'll get his money. It's a game of chicken that will play itself out...with MM in a Leafs uniform. Will it be 3,4 years or the 6,7,8 that the Leafs want? Dunno. That's why chicken games are played. In no way do I believe Marner's camp will let this get to a point where the bridge is so burned they trade him. If Dubas pushes this to that place as a ploy, and does it well, it is Marner who will cave. Yes he may use a team like the Islanders or anyone else who may submit an OS as leverage (we're used to that after seeing what Panarin did). But I do have a question. Obviously you guys have made some moves already trying to clear space. I'm curious, though, when push comes to shove and Marner gets his double digit millions who are the candidates to be moved if they have to clear more space? Or can Dubas do this circuitously through more moves like the Clarkson trade without having to touch his roster? A quick note on JT. I know from the outside it appeared that we are Neanderthals, and I'm not going to disagree that some Islanders fans behaved as such. But you'd really need to understand the entire context of what went on and how it played out to grasp that the animosity came from a truly legitimate place, and most of us expressed it appropriately. The level of behavior you saw from some Islanders fans way exaggerated it, but again you'd need to know all the ins and outs. If you did you might understand better where it came from. I will not respond as I want to get in and get out of here given my stated allegiances and understanding of the climate between our fanbases. Cheers!

My guess would be Mango or Ceci. But I don't think he'll end up having to move anyone. To some though, he's turning into a villan regardless of whether he signs or not. I've certainly lost respct fro him - not that he's going for all the money he can get, just the way he's going about it

 

[horner]

That is Marner's case and leverage to claim he is validating the JT signing and contract at $11 mil..

Johnny can continue to score more goals and be a PPG player with Marner as his wingman, and Ferris/Marner are certainly making that case why Mitch deserves to be paid like JT and AM as a result.

Without Marner driving the lines offense Tavares is likely +$2 mil overpaid and more like a $9 mil player not $11 mil.

Mathews Taveras and Marner will all make a mil more than they should.

 

[TheDoldrums]

For those that wish to trade Marner .
Looking back at JT career
He has scored over 30 goals 4 times .
38, 37, 33 and 31

Under a point/game player throughout his career.

If you like watching JT score at the rate he is .
You may want to keep him around.

only two Hart nominations before he ever played with Mitch too

 

[showtime8]

If you're Marner's camp, why wouldn't you be looking for a 2 year deal from the Leafs?

There is going to be new money coming to the league through Seattle expansion & a new US tv deal. If percentage of the cap is a concern, why not wait until the cap goes up?

 

[Nineteen67]

Great idea will Nashville pay him 13.5M in AAV? and for 5 years. will they be willing to give up 4 1st rounders for 5 years of service? or give us their best defense, top winger and a 1st rounder? Folks this is NEVER going to happen. All the talk has occurred already. All that is left to do is Ferris to nickel and dime Leafs for a little more. and everyone enjoy their brews. It is not too exciting but that is the reality here.

They don’t have the cap room, but I would imagine he would take less to play there. Terrific city, great housing, and no state tax.

 

[Nineteen67]

If you're Marner's camp, why wouldn't you be looking for a 2 year deal from the Leafs?

There is going to be new money coming to the league through Seattle expansion & a new US tv deal. If percentage of the cap is a concern, why not wait until the cap goes up?

2 or 3 years in the $8.5 million range makes sense.