Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[ACC1224]

I agree he re-ups before camp. Probably 11th hour.
My fear is that it doesn’t end there. As soon as he signs, Paul marner starts making it clear through the media that they didn’t get fair value, and thus, the campaign begins where the camp starts to threaten their way out of town unless they are grossly overpaid on the next deal to “supplement” losses from this deal ala Jose Bautista.
I hope that’s not the plan. This team won’t need that distraction.

Honestly?

 

[Cor]

IMO the training camp in Zurich was a last stab at leverage.

I still think he signs before Leafs training camp.

It seems odd to go to Zurich to train.

I’m sure he could have skated with the Knights or another OHL team, and had no issues.

Nylander skated with several European teams, because well, he’s from Europe.

It seems odd that a Ontario kid like Marner would go across the world just to skate and train, when there’s a million places he could do that here (or even in the states).


My guess, that yes, while it’s just skating and training, it’s another typical Ferris move of “well, what if he actually players there!” that he’s pulled with all his other RFA holdouts, that never work.

Frankly, I’m sorta done discussion #16. I want to be excited for this season. We have a very talented team. This is the best defense group we have had in a loooong while, and our forwards are very deep even without Marner. Freddy will do Freddy things and between Neuvirth and Hutch, we can have an actual backup this year.

If 16 wants to play, he’ll sign and play. If he doesn’t, then life goes on, the show goes on, and the Leafs move forward.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

This thread is an embarrassment. Some of you guys really need to learn to chill.

 

[Cor]

Honestly?

I can see the point.

Marner’s camp firmly believes he deserves Matthews money. They won’t get that, but that’s what they believe.

I mean, they went on the radio hours after Matthews signed, pissed, saying it was bad.

So I wouldn’t doubt that after whatever deal Marner eventually signs, if it’s less than what Matthews got, that we eventually hear, be it through Dreger or from the agent himself, that they weren’t happy, and the next contract will be them looking to cash in.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not even comparing him to Matthews right now.... Why are people bringing Matthews back into this?

All I've said was that NotSince67 raised a valid question, "What value/premium do you put on Centermen and Goalscorers"?

Not once did I mention Matthews.

You mentioned how young he was and that his goal scoring would likely increase, and part of the discussion is about the value of goals and Centermen. Matthews is a centerman and a goal scorer and is part of the contract discussion about how much marner should get in his contract.

Of course if Matthews' contract is irrelevant, we're right back to Kucherov aren't we?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Absolutely term is part of the equation, but there are 2 important things why it's a very bad take.

1. There is absolutely zero ways Matthews is the "Highest Paid Player in the league" (Not biggest contract, not biggest AAV, nothing).
2. No one here has any clue how much more it costs for the 3 extra years of term (does it raise AAV 500k, 250k, 1, million, 10 million).

"Based on Term" is just a way for someone to try and make a false statement somehow true, but it's still false.

Posters love to assume AAV drops by millions for every year of the term, but in all reality there is no evidence to back that up (not rare around these parts).

So you’d be perfectly fine if Marner is signed for 10.5x3? You’d just shrug your shoulders and say “Meh, nobody know how much ufa years and term affects aav anyways.”?

 

[MyBudJT]

Dreger says that Marner will go to Zurich sometime in the 3rd week of the month if a contract is not signed...

Well, that is one less thing to be concerned about! Dreger has been hilariously bad with his Marner talk this offseason, and incorrect more-often than not.

 

[MyBudJT]

You mentioned how young he was and that his goal scoring would likely increase, and part of the discussion is about the value of goals and Centermen. Matthews is a centerman and a goal scorer and is part of the contract discussion about how much marner should get in his contract.

Of course if Matthews' contract is irrelevant, we're right back to Kucherov aren't we?

Right, all I was trying to say with my "goal scorering will likely increase" statement is that most 30+ goal scorers aren't really criticized for their "lack of goals".... At one point, would you label a player a "goal scorer"?

 

[ULF_55]

Right, all I was trying to say with my "goal scorering will likely increase" statement is that most 30+ goal scorers aren't really criticized for their "lack of goals".... At one point, would you label a player a "goal scorer"?

I wouldn't be surprised to see marner score over 30 goals. I think he's a better player than Kadri and he did it twice.
I thought about it and really, Leafs could have two 50 goals scorers and two 30 goal scorers in their line-up with marner being one of them.

 

[Go4soda]

Honestly?

I know! But nobody would have predicted all the rfa’s Holding off so long either. These guys are a different breed. And Paul marner is Paul marner.

 

[ACC1224]

I can see the point.

Marner’s camp firmly believes he deserves Matthews money. They won’t get that, but that’s what they believe.

I mean, they went on the radio hours after Matthews signed, pissed, saying it was bad.

So I wouldn’t doubt that after whatever deal Marner eventually signs, if it’s less than what Matthews got, that we eventually hear, be it through Dreger or from the agent himself, that they weren’t happy, and the next contract will be them looking to cash in.

I don't doubt that some will lap up the speculations, that's been happening the entire time.
Them actually saying it is doubtful.

 

[ACC1224]

I know! But nobody would have predicted all the rfa’s Holding off so long either. These guys are a different breed. And Paul marner is Paul marner.

When was the last time he said anything?

 

[MyBudJT]

I know! But nobody would have predicted all the rfa’s Holding off so long either. These guys are a different breed. And Paul marner is Paul marner.

What does this even mean? Would you say this to the guy's face? If not, you're probably better off not saying it at all....

I really dislike when people talk trash about other people, while being anonymous and behind a computer screen.

 

[Mess]

You mentioned how young he was and that his goal scoring would likely increase, and part of the discussion is about the value of goals and Centermen. Matthews is a centerman and a goal scorer and is part of the contract discussion about how much marner should get in his contract.

Of course if Matthews' contract is irrelevant, we're right back to Kucherov aren't we?

Last summer Marner valued himself at $72 mil [$9 mil X 8 years] and now after his great season, he can make a solid case that he is worth +$500k/more per season and that puts him at the Kucherov contract.

Sure Marner didn't lead the NHL in scoring nor be named MVP like Kuch, but he is still young and you have to pay for potential.

 

[18leafsfan18]

So you’d be perfectly fine if Marner is signed for 10.5x3? You’d just shrug your shoulders and say “Meh, nobody know how much ufa years and term affects aav anyways.”?

Not saying that in any way. I literally haven't even brought up Marner's contract.

Where did that come from ?

Simply stated that the posters on this forum that say "Matthews is the highest paid playing in the league" are delusional. It's not true no matter how anyone whats to spin it.

 

[Ciao]

Last summer Marner valued himself at $72 mil [$9 mil X 8 years] and now after his great season, he can make a solid case that he is worth +$500k/more per season and that puts him at the Kucherov contract.

Sure Marner didn't lead the NHL in scoring nor be named MVP like Kuch, but he is still young and you have to pay for potential.

9.5x8?

Done.

 

[Cor]

I don't doubt that some will lap up the speculations, that's been happening the entire time.
Them actually saying it is doubtful.

Would you have said Marner’s agent going on the radio immediately trashing Matthews signing, before it happened was doubtful?

Darren Ferris and Paul Marner aren’t regular in how they handle things

 

[JEI]

It seems odd to go to Zurich to train.

I’m sure he could have skated with the Knights or another OHL team, and had no issues.

It's like when Rocky went to Russia to train so he could be just as good as Drago in Rocky 4. Marner wants to follows in Matthews footsteps so he can pump up those contract numbers.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Not saying that in any way. I literally haven't even brought up Marner's contract.

Where did that come from ?

Simply stated that the posters on this forum that say "Matthews is the highest paid playing in the league" are delusional. It's not true no matter how anyone whats to spin it.

So you agree that term is a HUGE part of a contract's value. But you just refuse to set any parameters around it.

At the very least, Matthews contract is arguably the highest paid in the league. We can't just ignore "term" as part of the equation.

 

[ACC1224]

Would you have said Marner’s agent going on the radio immediately trashing Matthews signing, before it happened was doubtful?

Darren Ferris and Paul Marner aren’t regular in how they handle things

He made a mistake there which they immediately addressed, hardly the norm.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Feels like Point will sign first. Feels like very little tension over there.

 

[18leafsfan18]

So you agree that term is a HUGE part of a contract's value. But you just refuse to set any parameters around it.

At the very least, Matthews contract is arguably the highest paid in the league. We can't just ignore "term" as part of the equation.

No I do not agree term is a huge part of a contract's value. It's a part, but not a huge part. Almost every guy with high end talent coming off ELC didn't sign for 8 years, was never an issue before.

Marner's value to me is max of 10.5 x 7 (Maybe 10.5 x 6). For 3 years he would have to be lower than that. Pretty simple.

How much lower ? I have no idea and neither does anyone else because there is absolutely no evidence to show how much the term effects the AAV of a contract.

Literally all that above has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted btw.

As for Matthews contract: Not highest in actual dollars, not highest AAV. Can't arguably say anything. Simply isn't the highest. It's 3rd for AAV, likely not even top 10 for actual dollars.

 

[Burnie97]

I'd like to think when I was in my younger 20s after putting in a few good years of work... that I'd be okay with 9 million or so for another 8 years to remain at a company who besides the money is one of the best places to work and treats you like royalty.

It must be so difficult for these kids... not getting that extra 2 million is such a .... bummer.

And honestly I guess I'm different than Marner, or his Dad, or his agent... or whoever is pulling the strings... but I'm not worrying if the other guy by me is making 11 million when I'm going to get a 3 year longer guaranteed contract at unreal money... regardless if I'm injured in my workplace etc... and probably when the 8 years is up... I can sign another massive deal.

 

[Mess]

9.5x8?

Done.

Could have saved a little $$ and cap space had this been done earlier, however lets hope Dubas can get this done

 

[Walshy7]

I can see the point.

Marner’s camp firmly believes he deserves Matthews money. They won’t get that, but that’s what they believe.

I mean, they went on the radio hours after Matthews signed, pissed, saying it was bad.

So I wouldn’t doubt that after whatever deal Marner eventually signs, if it’s less than what Matthews got, that we eventually hear, be it through Dreger or from the agent himself, that they weren’t happy, and the next contract will be them looking to cash in.

if that's the case you trade him 1 year out from next contract for full value