Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[WTFMAN99]

Someone on Twitter had a great contract structure in mind.

6M
6M
10.5M

= 7.5M avg for 3 years and his qualifier starts at 10.5M on any new contract.

Opens up 12.5-13M 8 year deal after that.

 

[baton elevated]

Thanks, I stand corrected.

 

[Goose]

Honestly I love Marner, but the Leafs (and the league generally) should quash this trend of holdouts when there are reasonable offers on the table (it’d be different if the Leafs didn’t have the cap space and were trying to force him to take something unreasonably low like 7.5/year or something).

I was an extremely strong advocate of letting Nylander sit for the year and more and more I think it’s what the Leafs should have done. If they had of let Nylander sit out a year I don’t think we would be seeing this out of Marner.

At this point, if Marner goes to Switzerland I say let him sit or trade him. The organization can’t keep getting bullied by its RFAs, this isn’t a star-power league like the NBA where teams are made or broken by getting/losing one player.

 

[ToDavid]

If we traded Marner and and got less than market value but appeared in SC finals would it not be a successful?

Would what have been successful? The season? Yes. The trade? No.

In that situation we would have had a successful season in spite of that trade and very likely would have had an even more successful season (and seasons to come) had it not been made.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Someone on Twitter had a great contract structure in mind.

6M
6M
10.5M

= 7.5M avg for 3 years and his qualifier starts at 10.5M on any new contract.

Opens up 12.5-13M 8 year deal after that.

I don't think that is allowed.

I can't find the actual contract rule, but I remember hearing the new CBA has a rule % difference in years of a contract (20% maybe). To prevent front loaded/back loaded deals.

For example: Crosby's contract is (Average of 8.7, so that's the cap hit):

12 mil first 3 years / 10.9 for 2 years /9.0 for a year /9.6 for a year / 9.0 for a year / 3.0 for 3 years

This is no longer allowed as you need the highest paid year and the lowest paid year to not be different by more then 20% (Or whatever the % is under the CBA).

I could be wrong though. Also hope this makes sense.

 

[baton elevated]

Would what have been successful? The season? Yes. The trade? No.

In that situation we would have had a successful season in spite of that trade and very likely would have had an even more successful season (and seasons to come) had it not been made.

Yes of course.

 

[Damisoph]

I don't usually defend the guy, but that quote was paraphrased to make Dreger look really bad.

 

[kb]

I don't think that is allowed.

I can't find the actual contract rule, but I remember hearing the new CBA has a rule % difference in years of a contract (20% maybe). To prevent front loaded/back loaded deals.

For example: Crosby's contract is (Average of 8.7, so that's the cap hit):

12 mil first 3 years / 10.9 for 2 years /9.0 for a year /9.6 for a year / 9.0 for a year / 3.0 for 3 years

This is no longer allowed as you need the highest paid year and the lowest paid year to not be different by more then 20% (Or whatever the % is under the CBA).

I could be wrong though. Also hope this makes sense.

It's 50% IIRC

 

[Kamiccolo]

"A respect thing, he thinks he is as good or better than Matthews / JT so why does he need to be the one to take a discount".

So tired of hearing this. Who is asking him to take a discount? He's not a goal scorer, he's not a center. He has 1 year of being a PPG player, and he was playing with a franchise center.

Despite this, reports are he is being offered to be the highest paid RFA winger ever, and being offered money comparable to 8 year deals on shorter term.

It upsets me that Dubas doesn't really have the balls for this stuff. Not to say at all, he's made some ballsy trades and moves and shown he can do it.

But when it comes to these negotiations, he sucks. He refuses to entertain moving Marner after months of him offering above market value. So what is going to happen?

Marner is going to do what Nylander did. He is going to get Dubas to up his offer, and get something like 10 x 3 offered to him. He will wait until a day or two before Marner cannot sign anymore due to cap space, and say "let's get a deal done", and squeeze an extra 200k out of Dubas.

IMO, Dubas should have told him if he didn't have a deal done Sept 1st that was within what the team could afford and still compete for a cup, he would start looking at trade options.

But the whole ordeal has been mishandled badly. From promising JT if he came here he could keep everyone, to doubling down at a press conference "We can and we will" and then failing to see Marner was playing with JT and he should have overpaid slightly for 8 years last offseason.

He follows it up with the perception he caved to Nylander, even if he didn't, it appeared that way around the league. Then he gave Matthews a blank check.

Both Marner and Dubas are at fault. f*** Marner for being a greedy POS and I hope he gets traded to Colombus or some small market shithole, and f*** Dubas for shortening the cup window by not being able to negotiate RFA contracts with stars that pay close to market rate.

NO matter Matthews potential, he gave a career high 69 point player that deal (at the time).

Just what a mess they have all made of this promising team. Hope Marner is traded and Dubas is forced to hand over the keys to someone else to negotiate anything meaningful going forward.

 

[18leafsfan18]

It's 50% IIRC

Oh okay.

I didn't realize it was such a high %.

It's so hard to find contract rules anywhere.

 

[ACC1224]

things like public opinion? he can very easily effect the court of public opinion, so leaf fans start making noise for their favorite player. Unfortunately most see through this as their position is ludicrously off base in terms of marners value

This doesn't make any sense.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

don't have time on the deck having some beers but if you are suggesting marner scores the same points with Marleau and kadri or that playing with a franchise center had no impact then there is no reason for further discussion.

Tavares is a star on his own.

To be fair, NotSince is well known for being a Marner apologist...Tavares was actually a plug before he met mitch, we all just didn't know it...I've been vocal saying they benefited each other immensely...Tavares has a deal Marner doesn't...who really benefited more out of the partnership?
Tavares never steps foot on Marner's line and Marner gets 60-70 points this year and the contract is already signed
but instead
Tavares and Marner team up...Marner benefits greatly (as does JT) from playing with another star and sets the league on fire in a contract year...how nobody in the leafs brass saw this outcome happening I will never understand lol...

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Yeah, kind of like the suggestion of putting him on the 3rd. line because they'd have 3 1st. lines because he'd still score 94 points playing with 3rd. liners.

You do realize that when he was put on a line of third liners he scored at a 90 point pace. Marleau and kadri hadn’t scored in 20 games and when marner was put on with them they became our best offensive line. Again marner scored at a 90 point pace when this happened. So yes he can

 

[TheDoldrums]

Someone on Twitter had a great contract structure in mind.

6M
6M
10.5M

= 7.5M avg for 3 years and his qualifier starts at 10.5M on any new contract.

Opens up 12.5-13M 8 year deal after that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't think that is allowed.

I can't find the actual contract rule, but I remember hearing the new CBA has a rule % difference in years of a contract (20% maybe). To prevent front loaded/back loaded deals.

For example: Crosby's contract is (Average of 8.7, so that's the cap hit):

12 mil first 3 years / 10.9 for 2 years /9.0 for a year /9.6 for a year / 9.0 for a year / 3.0 for 3 years

This is no longer allowed as you need the highest paid year and the lowest paid year to not be different by more then 20% (Or whatever the % is under the CBA).

I could be wrong though. Also hope this makes sense.

It's allowed, can't be more then variance 50% between years so this works.

Alright, forget it then lol. That is just laughable at this point.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I never disagreed that term affects AAV. I Actually straight up said it does affect it. No one knows by how much (Dubas haters love to over inflate this number, with no evidence whatsoever), like I said, and posted twice.

You still seem to be arguing a conversation you are having with yourself.

What bridge deals are you talking about ?

Give some examples, because it would be pretty foolish to assume Kane/Toews bridge contracts were lower because of the term (They won 2 cups before the 8 year deals were signed).

So you 100% agree that term affects aav, but it's arguable how much.

So Matthews, based on term, is arguably the highest paid player in the league.

 

[nuck]

That one wasn’t quite accurate. Mirtle reported in person on his last podcast. That he was at 8.7 x 3

"just under $9M" would have been the 3 year number so I'm not sure $8.7 is new info. I only mention that because the recent podcast might have just been the old info rehashed to get some clicks.

 

[kb]

Time to start going down with the offers. Each week it drops. Because in season, that's exactly what the LTIR room will do anyway. So might as well start the countdown earlier and increase the pressure.

 

[Burnie97]

It's allowed, can't be more then variance 50% between years so this works.



Alright, forget it then lol. That is just laughable at this point.

Marner might as well start enjoying the Alps, chocolate, and a little swiss cheese then.

 

[18leafsfan18]

So you 100% agree that term affects aav, but it's arguable how much.

So Matthews, based on term, is arguably the highest paid player in the league.

He is absolutely not the highest paid player in the league. Full Stop. Not Arguably, not maybe. He is not the highest paid player.

This is a perfect example of so many posters on here, you know it's impossible for him to be the highest paid player and you still argue he is.

 

[Kiwi]

Sadly I agree. There usually can be no placating of someone who believes they are a victim. I'm truly hoping this isn't the case, and that it's just more baseless speculation from "insiders".

So am I but if that mindset is true this has the potential to go off the rails in a bad way, if your using emotion over logic it's amazing how badly you can screw yourself over and end up in a situation you never wanted

Like playing in Switzerland or another market because your pride demands you not give an inch

I think that "respect" is really depends on whether the player feels disrespected or if this is just a living through his child parent scenario?

If this is coming from the player it could be in the best interest to move him because there will always be something that isn't respected, to add to the growing list of getting less bonus money, getting less than Matthews and/or Tavares. Someone getting a nicer looking piece of the cake, getting handed the Cup after Anderssen, Tavares, Matthews, and Rielly ...

It's horrendous, I pray to God this is Dreger taking some dramatic licence or a negotiating tactic because if this is how the Marner side is actually thinking or feeling we've got a serious problem and I just don't know how you placate him without screwing the team in the process

 

[18leafsfan18]

It's allowed, can't be more then variance 50% between years so this works.

Thanks, I knew it was a percent but didn't realize it was that high of a %.

 

[Kamiccolo]

He is absolutely not the highest paid player in the league. Full Stop. Not Arguably, not maybe. He is not the highest paid player.

This is a perfect example of so many posters on here, you know it's impossible for him to be the highest paid player and you still argue he is.

Sorry it's BS. He has the highest value contract in the league, how about that? He got full money, short term, and all in signing bonus up front. Even with trade protection in the years allowed by the CBA. Matthews got every single thing he wanted without giving anything up.

Over 8 years, he would have a higher AAV than McDavid. In fact, the whole reason for the 5 years was Matthews wanted more than McDavid so he had to bring him down 3 years of term to shave off just over 1M in cap.

 

[ACC1224]

Is the difference between Mirtle and Dreger that people like what Mirtle says?
If Ferris feeds Dreger, who feeds Mirtle?

 

[baton elevated]

Is the difference between Mirtle and Dreger that people like what Mirtle says?
If Ferris feeds Dreger, who feeds Mirtle?

Dubas