Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Throw More Waffles]

I dont frankly care what they pay him. Leafs are lucky to have him
This Kucherov thing has been done to death. Kucherov is underpaid period. If he were on the Market right at this moment, he would get the highest contract in the NHL He could command over 13MM no problem. He has a no movement clause so he can keep to lower taxes. Repeating things over and over again just doesn't make it any more convincing

Ah...

The age old "team friendly contracts don't count as comparables. Only player friendly contracts count" argument.

That's always a fun one.

 

[Kiwi]

I dont frankly care what they pay him. Leafs are lucky to have him
This Kucherov thing has been done to death. Kucherov is underpaid period. If he were on the Market right at this moment, he would get the highest contract in the NHL He could command over 13MM no problem. He has a no movement clause so he can keep to lower taxes. Repeating things over and over again just doesn't make it any more convincing

Since the league has a salary cap you probably should care about how much we pay him, you know because it actually has a baring on how we can construct the team

Saying you think he's awesome so let's give him a bijillion dollars isn't exactly a convincing argument

I do care how much we pay him, I'm also not a pro Marner fan boy and I put a $ value on his value to the team and if we can't sign him under or on that I want him bridged and traded

Nobody is bigger than the team

 

[PromisedLand]

Because they don't sound very believable? And that the majority of these so called rumors turn out to be nothing but hot air....

what is your definition of believable? something that aligns with your thoughts and makes dubas looks like a genius is believable? if something makes dubas look bad or contradicts your preconceived notions then it is not believable?

yea i don't operate that way

there is a logical flow from the reported stories just because they didn't come to pass doesn't mean there wasn't any truth to them.

unless dubas comes out and says it or canes or blues come out and say what was offered for nylander apparently everything should be disregarded? why?

there are merits to the stories and they should be talked about to ascertain what potential moves dubas could have made but didn't and what is the impact on the team

 

[Notsince67]

Ah...

The age old "team friendly contracts don't count as comparables. Only player friendly contracts count" argument.

That's always a fun one.

Fun for you. I frankly dont give a shit

 

[Notsince67]

Since the league has a salary cap you probably should care about how much we pay him, you know because it actually has a baring on how we can construct the team

Saying you think he's awesome so let's give him a bijillion dollars isn't exactly a convincing argument

I do care how much we pay him, I'm also not a pro Marner fan boy and I put a $ value on his value to the team and if we can't sign him under or on that I want him bridged and traded

Nobody is bigger than the team

Just a slogan. Marner is getting paid large. When everyone is getting overpaid, he will as well. The ship on this has sailed already

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Fun for you. I frankly dont give a ****

It seems weird for someone who "doesn't give a shit" to only use player friendly contracts as comaprables, but not team friendly contracts.

 

[Maple Leaf]

why does marner deserve 3 million more than aho
checkmate

 

[Marshy]

I'd give him until Oct 2nd to sign or he never plays another game as a Leaf again. If we're forced to match an offersheet you trade him next year.

Contract gets signed. Ferris may or may not be retained.

Contract doesn't get signed at fair market value (at or around 10M X 6) ... no hard feelings enjoy your new team when we get around to trading you.

 

[kb]

I'd give him until Oct 2nd to sign or he never plays another game as a Leaf again. If we're forced to match an offersheet you trade him next year.

Contract gets signed. Ferris may or may not be retained.

Contract doesn't get signed at fair market value (at or around 10M X 6) ... no hard feelings enjoy your new team when we get around to trading you.

Exactly. Unless he's willing to take drastically less, an in season contract won't happen. Buhbye Mitch.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Exactly. Unless he's willing to take drastically less, an in season contract won't happen. Buhbye Mitch.

Hoping this weakling signs a massive offersheet
Let's see those picks

 

[HolyCrap]

I'd give him until Oct 2nd to sign or he never plays another game as a Leaf again. If we're forced to match an offersheet you trade him next year.

Contract gets signed. Ferris may or may not be retained.

Contract doesn't get signed at fair market value (at or around 10M X 6) ... no hard feelings enjoy your new team when we get around to trading you.

Agreed

 

[Dekes For Days]

(when he was rumourd to be looking for 11x8years last summer)

There is no evidence this happened.

Dubas did not have that foresight

Dubas had great foresight to not drastically overpay for what players hadn't done.

and now we are in a hole cap wise

There is no hole. Leafs are in one of the best positions in the league with the cap.

and down a first round pick because of marleau trade

1. Marleau was signed by Lou.
2. That first round pick essentially paid for Tavares, and I'll take that deal any day.

 

[Dekes For Days]

And by the same token, there's zero evidence that it didn't impact the negotiations or final price.

Sounds like you shouldn't be making definitive statements based on nothing but the absence of evidence then.

 

[Dekes For Days]

what is your definition of believable?

Maybe something that makes logical sense and doesn't completely contradict every other report and piece of information we have about the negotiation.

 

[Stephen]

I dont frankly care what they pay him. Leafs are lucky to have him
This Kucherov thing has been done to death. Kucherov is underpaid period. If he were on the Market right at this moment, he would get the highest contract in the NHL He could command over 13MM no problem. He has a no movement clause so he can keep to lower taxes. Repeating things over and over again just doesn't make it any more convincing

And this is why you're out to lunch on this topic.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't know how people reach a conclusion that either party caved. We simply don't know. We have two pieces of information: 1) Nylander called Dubas, 2) The end result was a $7M6Y contract.

For all we know, that might have been as far as Dubas was willing to go, and Nylander called to accept it before his season was over. Or it could have been what Nylander wanted and he called for a last pitch and Dubas went along. We don't know.

Can't agree more, Reports were Nylander was looking for 8-8.5, He signs for 7 and Dubas caved ?

Some posters just don't use logic.

The same exact scenario with "Marner was willing to sign for 8 before last season". This was based on 1 "Insider" who now doesn't have a job, no other insider's touched this (without citing Kypreos).

Poster's claim "Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT. Should have signed him before last year"

If Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT, wouldn't Marner and his agent know the exact same thing and not want to sign until this season ?

It just makes no logical sense.

 

[bentharbs]

Can't agree more, Reports were Nylander was looking for 8-8.5, He signs for 7 and Dubas caved ?

Some posters just don't use logic.

The same exact scenario with "Marner was willing to sign for 8 before last season". This was based on 1 "Insider" who now doesn't have a job, no other insider's touched this (without citing Kypreos).

Poster's claim "Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT. Should have signed him before last year"

If Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT, wouldn't Marner and his agent know the exact same thing and not want to sign until this season ?

It just makes no logical sense.

People around here will find any information - despite its validity and reliability - that fits the narrative they want to pursue.

I've said on these boards that nobody, not even the so-called "insiders," really know what is going on.

 

[18leafsfan18]

It's not going to matter really. If Rantanen gets a big deal, they'll point to it as a comparable. If Rantanen signs for 9x8, they'll ignore it and go on about how "Matthews is the only true comparable".

Marner's camp might do that, but what would Dubas do ?

Dubas is going to use the exact opposite approach you said above, like a negotiation.

If the evidence stacks up farther and farther on Dubas' side, Marner will be forced to sign.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Can't agree more, Reports were Nylander was looking for 8-8.5, He signs for 7 and Dubas caved ?

Some posters just don't use logic.

The same exact scenario with "Marner was willing to sign for 8 before last season". This was based on 1 "Insider" who now doesn't have a job, no other insider's touched this (without citing Kypreos).

Poster's claim "Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT. Should have signed him before last year"

If Dubas should have known Marner was going to light it up with JT, wouldn't Marner and his agent know the exact same thing and not want to sign until this season ?

It just makes no logical sense.

Personally, I think it's interesting that there was no sign of that rumored possibility anywhere around that point in time. I do think it's real, but in the sense that it's an after-construct by Paul to put pressure on management. It started popping up when negotiations went more public and public opinion started to shift away from Marner. So I believe it's a real thing that has been said and comes from the source, but I kind of believes it's empty talk and Marner had no intention of negotiating last summer for the reason you mentioned. It would make no sense for him.

 

[18leafsfan18]

People around here will find any information - despite its validity and reliability - that fits the narrative they want to pursue.

I've said on these boards that nobody, not even the so-called "insiders," really know what is going on.

I've likely done that myself, but I've learned to step back and just use some logic, makes things much clearer.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Personally, I think it's interesting that there was no sign of that rumored possibility anywhere around that point in time. I do think it's real, but in the sense that it's an after-construct by Paul to put pressure on management. It started popping up when negotiations went more public and public opinion started to shift away from Marner. So I believe it's a real thing that has been said and comes from the source, but I kind of believes it's empty talk and Marner had no intention of negotiating last summer for the reason you mentioned. It would make no sense for him.

That is a definite possibility.

There is also no timeline on it at all (That I've seen, could have missed that or forgot )

If it was before JT signed, I would be more inclined to believe it

If it was after JT signed Marner would have been stupid to sign before "Lighting it up".

 

[4thline]

It seems weird for someone who "doesn't give a ****" to only use player friendly contracts as comaprables, but not team friendly contracts.

Look up the concept of willingness to pay and its role in establishing market curves, get back to us.

All that matters is what teams (in aggregate) are willing to pay to players. When push comes to shove certain players signing under the curve doesn't change the curve, it just changes our perception.

 

[moon111]

Think it was possible a mistake bringing in a veteran player who holds the distinction of playing the most games without a Cup. What kind of advice is he giving his 'boys'?
"Listen, don't let them fool you into taking a lower salary by offering you dreams of winning the Cup. That's bull, go for the money."
In 2010, Marleau didn't test free agency and signed to what might be considered a team-friendly deal at the time. Where did it get him?

 

[Captain Crunch]

Kane's post elc deal. Admittedly he had a high of 88 points, but league scoring was lower.

And of course you have kucherov, one of the league's best offensive producers signed for under 10 on a deal that took up more ufa years than Marners

I’m just curious. In terms of actual dollars, how much does Kucherov actually make, seeing as how he plays in the state of Florida?

 

[DarkKnight]

Like I said, after Tavares signed and it was rumoured he would be paired with Marner, everyone knew what was coming. Before that...not so much.

Simply not the way it evolved. It’s funny too, because we all saw Matthews with Nylander, so that was a saw off anyways. You’re acting like Mitch had some advantage.