Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[MattySnipes]

The problem with the idea that everything that is going in with RFAs this summer is because of Dubas is that there were interviews with agents even before Nylander signed that stated they thought this would happen. It's just a lazy, lazy narrative.

When I see those posts:

 

[18leafsfan18]

He's already done damage by handcuffing us leaving us in Limbo. Real fan he is.

How do you know the Leafs even wanted Gardiner ?

How do you know Gardiner wasn't asking the Leafs for much more then 4 mil ?

The Leafs obviously made their decision on Defense long before today.

 

[MattySnipes]

I wonder if Tampa fans hate Point and Avs fans hate Rantanen as much as Leafs fans hate Marner on here.

Until he misses a game I wouldn't be losing my mind too much.

For reasonable fans, I don't think it's so much as they hate the player but more so with what they're having to hear or see in the media. That is causing them to view Marner in a bad light. But it's business, so once it's done he'll be the good ol' Magician again. Can't wait.

 

[Confucius]

How do you know the Leafs even wanted Gardiner ?

How do you know Gardiner wasn't asking the Leafs for much more then 4 mil ?

The Leafs obviously made their decision on Defense long before today.

The point is the team can do nothing until this is settled. It may have been Jake maybe they could have made other moves and trades. We wont know. The only thing we do know is we are stuck waiting on Marner.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

100% won't happen with Marner, that would make the Muzzin, Barrie, Marleau deals useless, leafs could possibly miss the playoffs with this lineup minus Mitch... Dubas should then be fired as incompetent by not seeing possible incoming issues/situations

are you for real? we have the most forward depth in the league bar none and our D isn't a wasteland anymore...Freddy is regular season Freddy... I ask again are you for real? short of an epic meltdown there is no way this team misses the playoffs

 

[Confucius]

For reasonable fans, I don't think it's so much as they hate the player but more so with what they're having to hear or see in the media. That is causing them to view Marner in a bad light. But it's business, so once it's done he'll be the good ol' Magician again. Can't wait.

It is business you are correct. I hope a player doesn't insult our intelligence by stating otherwise down the road.

 

[biotk]

For every deal discussed on these forms for the most part, someone wins and someone loses (That may not be how it should be, but that's what seems to be the thought). There never seems to be a "perfect number" for any player, either they got more they they are worth (Player looks good) or they got less then they are worth (Team looks good).

As far as Nylander and Matthews deals, both signed within comparables. Matthews hasn't played a single game into that new contract and Nylander started late and had a bad season. Pretty early to be saying those contracts made both sides look bad.

I am not talking about winning or losing. I am talking about players and teams looking good or bad.

 

[18leafsfan18]

The point is the team can do nothing until this is settled. It may have been Jake maybe they could have made other moves and trades. We wont know. The only thing we do know is we are stuck waiting on Marner.

Why would they make any other moves.

Dubas already made them all and made the team much better.

Now he has the time to wait for Mitch to get his contract signed.

 

[Confucius]

The only meaningful contract he has managed to sign without significant acrimony was a massive overpayment that walks our franchise centre right into unrestricted free agency and a return to Arizona.

Dubas inherited a roster that any GM would be envious of and he has managed to ruin RFAs for the entire league.

I know posters here love him because they can relate to nerdy young person who is in over their heads, but that doesn't make him a competent GM.

At least he didnt wait until the last second to try and squeeze a little more.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I am not talking about winning or losing. I am talking about players and teams looking good or bad.

Then does any player ever really look bad, when they sign a deal ?

 

[Mr Hockey]

are you for real? we have the most forward depth in the league bar none and our D isn't a wasteland anymore...Freddy is regular season Freddy... I ask again are you for real? short of an epic meltdown there is no way this team misses the playoffs

Bud, we made the playoffs by how many points last season? you think if we remove the 11'th highest points guy in the league it may not be a negative impact along with Kadri? cmon give your head a shake start thinking a little deeper when responding to me

 

[JayfromNB1219]

All other unsigned RFAs including Marner are apparently waiting on Dubas here to go first, so they can go afterwards as that contract sets the the new salary cap ceiling. This appears to be the cause of the contract holdups around the NHL.

Easy solution here where a trade solves everything ..

Step #1
Marner to the Lightning --> Point to the Avs --> Ratanten to the Leafs

Step #2
Marner in TB can't ask for Matthews money, if he is no longer his teammate, as he would be capped by new teammates Kucherov making $9.5 mil X 8 and Stamkos making $8.5 mil X 8 years. Now those are his new internal comparables and since he has less points not more than both, his asking price is no longer as the team highest scorer.

So after Marner signs for the Stamkos/Draisaitl deals [$8.5 mil X 7] in TB (which were last summers #s), and is the current fair market value price. Then Avs get Point and Leafs get Rantanen under contract for $8.5 mil or less in short order thereafter, now that pecking order and ceiling has been established.

Step #3
Marner to the Leafs --> Point to the Lightning--> Ratanten to the Avs

Because that wouldn't have the NHLPA up in arms complaining about how unfair it is that these guys got shuttled around purely for contract purposes then dealt back...can you say labor stoppage

 

[MattySnipes]

It is business you are correct. I hope a player doesn't insult our intelligence by stating otherwise down the road.

It used to be, "just a game". Hasn't been that way for a LONG time. Athletes love cliches because it shuts down questions or reporters they don't like.

 

[Confucius]

Why would they make any other moves.

Dubas already made them all and made the team much better.

Now he has the time to wait for Mitch to get his contract signed.

If that's true it's wrong, gms should constantly be looking to improve and constantly open to new proposals. But if someone throws a major roadblock on the situation there is not much he can do.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Because that wouldn't have the NHLPA up in arms complaining about how unfair it is that these guys got shuttled around purely for contract purposes then dealt back...can you say labor stoppage

The entire using only internal comparables debate is a bit ridicules.

 

[18leafsfan18]

If that's true it's wrong, gms should constantly be looking to improve and constantly open to new proposals. But if someone throws a major roadblock on the situation there is not much he can do.

I'm sure he is open to new proposals and improvements to the team.

He got done all of the major moved needed.

You have zero proof Marner is holding up any of that.

 

[Confucius]

I'm sure he is open to new proposals and improvements to the team.

He got done all of the major moved needed.

You have zero proof Marner is holding up any of that.

We dont know how much he will cost, I think that is proof enough, that we are handcuffed.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Bud, we made the playoffs by how many points last season? you think if we remove the 11'th highest points guy in the league it may not be a negative impact? cmon give your head a shake

big difference between an impact and missing the playoffs...realistically with the rosters where they are:

1.Tampa Bay (they are going to slaughter the league in the RS because of last years playoffs)
2.Toronto (as the young guns mature even without Marner, the skill on this team is undeniable)
3.Florida (there is no way they can suck again this year...if they do Florida is cursed)
4. Boston *1st Wildcard* (this ageing group gets 1-2 more kicks at the can before a complete rebuild becomes necessary)
5.Buffalo (see explanation of Florida)
6. Montreal (young guys need more seasoning before they are legitimate threats)
7.Detroit (years away form competing in this division)
8.Ottawa (Edmonton level tire fire coming up this season)

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Bud, we made the playoffs by how many points last season? you think if we remove the 11'th highest points guy in the league it may not be a negative impact along with Kadri? cmon give your head a shake start thinking a little deeper when responding to me

fine lol I will start moving beyond the top layer when responding...damnit I enjoyed being able to be lazy in response

 

[biotk]

Then does any player ever really look bad, when they sign a deal ?

Of course some do. Some come across as being extremely greedy and putting themselves above the team.

Nylander held out until the last minute. Both the player and team looked bad. I highly doubt that either would disagree with that statement. Nylander himself said weeks after the signing that he would advise against doing what he did. Dubas made it clear that the team would do whatever it could to avoid going through that again. They looked bad.

Matthews' signed a contract that shocked the shit out of pretty much everyone on this forum. It made him look greedy and it didn't make the team look good.

The team has been aggressively trying to sign Marner with no luck because he looks extremely greedy.

If these were players on another team, what people on here would be thinking is what a shame it is that a team with so much young talent is probably destroying their chances of winning a cup because of some extremely greedy young players. That is what has happened here.

 

[Mr Hockey]

fine lol I will start moving beyond the top layer when responding...damnit I enjoyed being able to be lazy in response

 

[MattySnipes]

Imo, out of our trio of star drafted forwards, it would seem Matthews has been the easiest and most straightforward signing. No headache, in-season, and fast. He gave his ask, Dubas complies generously. Rumoured in media to break in February, it breaks. Simple.

Both parties got what they wanted at that time. But like Dubas says, EVERY negotiation is different.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Imo, out of our trio of star forwards, it would seem Matthews has been the easiest and most straightforward signing. No headache, in-season, and fast. He gave his ask, Dubas complies generously. Rumoured in media to break in February, it breaks. Simple.

Both parties got what they wanted at that time. But like Dubas says, EVERY negotiation is different.

IMO, the Leafs consider Matthews "thee Franchise player" over everyone ... so basically Matthews gave Dubas contract options and Dubas choose the 5 year deal...

 

[ACC1224]

We dont know how much he will cost, I think that is proof enough, that we are handcuffed.

I'm sure with a little more reflection you'll come to realize this has nothing to do with Marner.

 

[18leafsfan18]

We dont know how much he will cost, I think that is proof enough, that we are handcuffed.

Has nothing to do with Marner.

If they wanted to make a move they simply would shed cap in the move. No different then if Marner signs and they want to make a move after.

Any move he would be making now would be very minor anyway.