Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I'm open to paying Marner what he wants/keep him happy and trading Nylander to free up cap space going forward.
It's proven we can win without Nylander.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Of course some do. Some come across as being extremely greedy and putting themselves above the team.

Nylander held out until the last minute. Both the player and team looked bad. I highly doubt that either would disagree with that statement. Nylander himself said weeks after the signing that he would advise against doing what he did. Dubas made it clear that the team would do whatever it could to avoid going through that again. They looked bad.

Matthews' signed a contract that shocked the **** out of pretty much everyone on this forum. It made him look greedy and it didn't make the team look good.

The team has been aggressively trying to sign Marner with no luck because he looks extremely greedy.

If these were players on another team, what people on here would be thinking is what a shame it is that a team with so much young talent is probably destroying their chances of winning a cup because of some extremely greedy young players. That is what has happened here.

The Nylander example I can agree with that did make both sides look bad.

Don't think Matthews contract or any other player's contract can make them look bad before they even play a game (Short of Nylander situation above).

Do you think Tampa and Avs are freaking out this much ? Once Marner signs and lights it up again will anyone care about the contract situation ? not a chance.

 

[MattySnipes]

IMO, the Leafs consider Matthews "thee Franchise player" over everyone ... so basically Matthews gave Dubas contract options and Dubas choose the 5 year option ...

No argument there. I think it's clear to everyone how they view Matthews. It's never wavered.

Personally, I feel NHL signings should only be in-season, and maybe only a 2-week window (July 1-15) for free agency. Train more, rest up or vacation with family and friends, and start the season earlier. Much earlier than October 2nd.

But all this nonsense and hearsay fuels society in the off-season and feeds Bettman's greed for the NHL to be somewhat relevant in the summer with contract discussions and boring exhibition games only raised by a lengthy and useless pre-season.

 

[kb]

I'm open to paying Marner what he wants/keep him happy and trading Nylander to free up cap space going forward.
It's proven we can win without Nylander.

That's a horrendous take. Maybe we can win without Marner too just as much?

 

[MattySnipes]

I'm open to paying Marner what he wants/keep him happy and trading Nylander to free up cap space going forward.
It's proven we can win without Nylander.

Only 2 months of sample size for you to make such a large decision? That's crazy. That's like making a roster decision over Marner's brief stint on the 4th line. Kyper? That you?

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

That's a horrendous take. Maybe we can win without Marner too just as much?

Well, my thinking is that Marner will obviously bolt the first chance he gets if you sleight him on this contract. It's apparent he is ego driven, so that's probably what he will do. Who would you rather have, Nylander or Marner? We won;t be able to afford both past this season anyways.

 

[Pilky01]

What? 3 years? Our Cup Window at minimum is 5 years if not more. Marner, Rielly, Barrie, and Andersen will all be re-signed by Dubas. He's doing a job Burke failed at miserably. Fans are supposed to believe every year, are you new?

What?

Fans aren't "supposed" to do anything other than want their team to win.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Only 2 months of sample size for you to make such a large decision? That's crazy. That's like making a roster decision over Marner's brief stint on the 4th line. Kyper? That you?

I just don't rate Nylander as highly as being necessary to win. He's a good player, but nothing that you couldn't do without.

 

[Confucius]

Has nothing to do with Marner.

If they wanted to make a move they simply would shed cap in the move. No different then if Marner signs and they want to make a move after.

Any move he would be making now would be very minor anyway.

We dont know if Marner takes a 3 year deal or an 8 year deal or somewhere in between. The point is that could be up to a 3 million dollar difference in caphit this season. Gardiner signed for 4 million. Gardiner is better than any 1 million dollar 7th man we play this season. Marners slow decision has very large repercussions for this season.

 

[MattySnipes]

What?

Fans aren't "supposed" to do anything other than want their team to win.

In the big markets, the expectations are higher. Whether they may be true or not. It's the experience. Listened to Max Domi recently? You're expected to contend every year. Only one goal. One track mind for everyone. Listen to Tyson Barrie recently?

True fans have that belief every year. It gets tested throughout but you stick with it. Look at the rollercoaster Blues fans just went through? If you can't, then don't be a fan of that team. I'm thrilled to have a team of players that believe they can win the Cup. Every year. That's always been the goal.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

ok so a lot of my views obviously involve the positive side of many different "What if" scenarios
1)what if Micheyev comes as advertised (best player outside of the NHL think Malkin when he came over) *doubtful*
2) What if Rielly/Ceci and Barrie/Muzzin form phenomenal partnerships (which they should) *probable*
3)What if Matthews has a full healthy season *most likely*
4) what if Kerfoot Kapanen and Johnssen form what becomes literally the best 3rd line in the league (no reason they can't) *probable*
5) What if Spezza has a return to form *not probable I think he's just old now*
6)What if Freddy finally figures it all out and becomes the G that he can be *likely* the guy HAS to get it at some point
7)What if Nylander returns to form or plays like he did at the World's *80% chance* he can't do any worse lol
8)What if Dermott and Hyman come back 100% healthy and raring to go *will happen* both are gamers
9)what if the boondoggle that is our special teams gets fixed *will happen* they cna't let that fiasco go any longer especially our PK

 

[biotk]

Don't think Matthews contract or any other player's contract can make them look bad before they even play a game (Short of Nylander situation above).

It has nothing to do with how they play going forward after the contract. That will determine whether the contract turned out to be a good one or a bad. I am talking about whether a negotiation and deal makes the player and/or team look bad.

Do you think Tampa and Avs are freaking out this much ?

No. Neither Tampa or the Avs have spent the summer aggressively trying to sign their player. Marner is the one who sought out offer sheets. Marner is one whose camp said several embarrassing things last season. Marner is the one who is in Switzerland. None of that looks good.

If either Point or Rantanen eventually get a contract that looks like an overpay and results in the team needing to trade away a good player to cover the excessive contract then both the player and the team will look bad.

If what it takes to get Marner to agree to sign is so high that it results in the requirement that one of Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot or Ceci is traded then the deal will make both the team and Marner look bad.

Once Marner signs and lights it up again will anyone care about the contract situation ? not a chance.

If someone is a fan of the team and Marner's demands have made the team worse, and made the team's cup chances worse - then yeah - fans should care. Bizarre that this even needs to be stated.

And, of course, if it is a contract that becomes widely criticized then it wouldn't surprise me in Marner's production goes down significantly (something that should already be expected because his oiSH% was completely unsustainable last year anyway).

Nylander had a crappy season. Matthews was playing at a 50 goal, 50 assist pace (over 38 games) before the contract was signed. After his widely criticized contract he played at a 38 goal, 36 assist pace (or 30 games).

 

[MattySnipes]

I just don't rate Nylander as highly as being necessary to win. He's a good player, but nothing that you couldn't do without.

That's fine, but atm Dubas doesn't share your opinion. Maybe in time? Sure. It's definitely a tradeable contract. I think Nylander is going to have a great year, and his contract will end up looking the best out of trio. But that's just me. I hope he's here his entire career.

 

[Pilky01]

In the big markets, the expectations are higher. Whether they may be true or not. It's the experience. Listened to Max Domi recently? You're expected to contend every year. Only one goal. One track mind for everyone. Listen to Tyson Barrie recently?

True fans have that belief every year. It gets tested throughout but you stick with it. Look at the rollercoaster Blues fans just went through? If you can't, then don't be a fan of that team. I'm thrilled to have a team of players that believe they can win the Cup. Every year. That's always been the goal.

Who/what are you talking about? Thats a complete non-sequitur answer.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

That's fine, but atm Dubas doesn't share your opinion. Maybe in time? Sure. It's definitely a tradeable contract. I think Nylander is going to have a great year, and his contract will end up looking the best out of trio. But that's just me. I hope he's here his entire career.

I would love to keep both Nylander and Marner (and Matthews and Tavares) but I can't see having all four + Reilly contract and possibly Barrie for 2020/21 and beyond. Just way too top heavy on the contracts, IMO.
I just have the gut feeling we'll see Marner leave ASAP if Dubas doesn't make him happy.

 

[MattySnipes]

Who/what are you talking about? Thats a complete non-sequitur answer.

You have a different opinion on what a fan should be, and I have a different one. That's fine. Move on. I choose to believe in my team every year. Whether they have a realistic shot or not. Yes, it's exhausting but it's a lot of fun.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Nylander overpaid
Matthews overpaid
Marner to be overpaid

Nothing wrong with a team overpaying your best players

Where teams get into trouble are by overpaying their secondary players like Kapanen Johnsson Kerfoot which Dubas hasn’t done..

Two things posters have To try to understand and I know it’s hard for some but marner isn’t holding out he is in negotiations which is his right under the CBA he signed. Crapping on him now is futile.

These same posters that point to marners outside comparables like kucherov have to realize kucherov is older and didn’t score any more points than Mitch at his age. Also these same posters make it seem like marner has peaked at 94 points and can’t get any better.marner has room to grow and like kucherov he may be scoring 125 points in five years time.

Relax the money is agreed on its the term that is being negotiated.

 

[MattySnipes]

I would love to keep both Nylander and Marner (and Matthews and Tavares) but I can't see having all four + Reilly contract and possibly Barrie for 2020/21 and beyond. Just way too top heavy on the contracts, IMO.
I just have the gut feeling we'll see Marner leave ASAP if Dubas doesn't make him happy.

We always feel it'll never fit, until he makes it happen. Just because we can't see the space doesn't mean they don't have ways to make it work. We have to enjoy the current show, let them worry about making it fit.

 

[Pilky01]

You have a different opinion on what a fan should be, and I have a different one. That's fine. Move on. I choose to believe in my team every year. Whether they have a realistic shot or not. Yes, it's exhausting but it's a lot of fun.

You can believe whatever you want but you aren't making a case for any of your opinions being informed or reasonable.

 

[18leafsfan18]

We dont know if Marner takes a 3 year deal or an 8 year deal or somewhere in between. The point is that could be up to a 3 million dollar difference in caphit this season. Gardiner signed for 4 million. Gardiner is better than any 1 million dollar 7th man we play this season. Marners slow decision has very large repercussions for this season.

I think you are overrating it, but I guess just in my opinion.

There is just as good of a chance that Leafs wanted nothing to do with Gardiner.

Leafs Nation wanted nothing to do with him until about 2 hours ago when he signed elsewhere.

 

[18leafsfan18]

It has nothing to do with how they play going forward after the contract. That will determine whether the contract turned out to be a good one or a bad. I am talking about whether a negotiation and deal makes the player and/or team look bad.



No. Neither Tampa or the Avs have spent the summer aggressively trying to sign their player. Marner is the one who sought out offer sheets. Marner is one whose camp said several embarrassing things last season. Marner is the one who is in Switzerland. None of that looks good.

If either Point or Rantanen eventually get a contract that looks like an overpay and results in the team needing to trade away a good player to cover the excessive contract then both the player and the team will look bad.

If what it takes to get Marner to agree to sign is so high that it results in the requirement that one of Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot or Ceci is traded then the deal will make both the team and Marner look bad.



If someone is a fan of the team and Marner's demands have made the team worse, and made the team's cup chances worse - then yeah - fans should care. Bizarre that this even needs to be stated.

And, of course, if it is a contract that becomes widely criticized then it wouldn't surprise me in Marner's production goes down significantly (something that should already be expected because his oiSH% was completely unsustainable last year anyway).

Nylander had a crappy season. Matthews was playing at a 50 goal, 50 assist pace (over 38 games) before the contract was signed. After his widely criticized contract he played at a 38 goal, 36 assist pace (or 30 games).

I just think people are getting way to over sensitive about it. He isn't signed but there are also 5-8 other high quality RFAs not signed.

 

[MattySnipes]

You can believe whatever you want but you aren't making a case for any of your opinions being informed or reasonable.

You don't think believing in your team winning every year is reasonable? You know what the word 'fan' is short for, right?

 

[kb]

I would love to keep both Nylander and Marner (and Matthews and Tavares) but I can't see having all four + Reilly contract and possibly Barrie for 2020/21 and beyond. Just way too top heavy on the contracts, IMO.
I just have the gut feeling we'll see Marner leave ASAP if Dubas doesn't make him happy.

Then trade Marner if he's truly that sensitive. No team needs that. And a player like that is no good in this market.

 

[Pilky01]

You don't think believing in your team winning every year is reasonable?

No it obviously is not.

 

[Confucius]

I think you are overrating it, but I guess just in my opinion.

There is just as good of a chance that Leafs wanted nothing to do with Gardiner.

Leafs Nation wanted nothing to do with him until about 2 hours ago when he signed elsewhere.

Wanted no part of Gardiner at 6 or 7 million per year sure but I think everyone would take him at 4. And Gardiner is just an example, you can fill anyone 's name in as a possibility if we only knew how much if anything we have to spend.