Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Crazy thought..... is 4 years the best deal?

4 x 9.16 or something.

Then.

Freddie 2 years
Rielly 3 years
Marner 4 years
Matty/Willy 5 years.

I’m not so sure what the last year of RFA does anyway? If he really didn’t want to sign He could still force his way out like Trouba.

We would lose him as a 1 year rental for a point/1st return.

4 years is the worst option. Gets Marner to UFA as soon as possible.

3 years, he remains a RFA, 6-8 we avoid him coming up the same year as Nylander/Matthews and Tavares contract will be done after year 6.

4 and 5 year deals we must avoid at all costs.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

It's tight, but guess what?


The Pasta, Bergeron and Marchand deals **** on ours so they can afford to resign Carlo and McAvoy and we have 1 defenseman under contract next season

Jesus, it's almost like getting good deals leaves you open to sign other good players

They have signed some truly horrific deals and there still in a decent position

Boston is in a pretty bad spot with their cap. Sure they have those guys signed cheap, but that also allows you to sign stupid deals like the Backes deal with the extra money.

Luckily Dubas cleared those contracts at the start of the summer so we can pay our stars a bit more and still put together a decent roster.

Honestly a bit surprised that nobody has offer sheeted Carlo. McAvoy can't receive one but the Bruins only have $7M in cap space and you'd think he'd get most of that.

Somebody offer sheet Carlo at $4.2M and force Boston to try and move Backes at an extremely high cost.

 

[Kiwi]

Boston is in a pretty bad spot with their cap. Sure they have those guys signed cheap, but that also allows you to sign stupid deals like the Backes deal with the extra money.

Luckily Dubas cleared those contracts at the start of the summer so we can pay our stars a bit more and still put together a decent roster.

Honestly a bit surprised that nobody has offer sheeted Carlo. McAvoy can't receive one but the Bruins only have $7M in cap space and you'd think he'd get most of that.

Somebody offer sheet Carlo at $4.2M and force Boston to try and move Backes at an extremely high cost.

We had one of those in Marleau, we gave up our 1st rounder to clear it off the books and took on Ceci to get rid of Brown and Zaitsev because were tight to the cap, Boston didn't have to do any of that and they still have Backes, you have some room for error if you don't screw yourself

The Dubas homers on here are as bad as the Marner homers, he's been taken to the woodshed twice and is about to get the same treatment from Marner yet you people still try to defend it

Just admit he was inexperienced, handled the Nylander situation badly and it's had a cascading effect that's killing our cap situation, it doesn't seem that complicated

 

[Havoc]

No, we've paid more than other teams for similar levels of talent

You can justify that any way you want but in a hard cap league that's death because guess what happens? Teams like Tampa have more talent than you for less outlay

Nylander's overpaid, Matthews is significantly overpaid and Marner's being a pain in the ass because now he expects to be overpaid (not an unfair position to take)

We're about to get taken to the cleaners, Tampa and Boston (division rivals) must be laughing because I know I would if I was them

Taken to the cleaners how?

Vasilevskiy and Point are going to combine for 20 mil. Tampa cant add any more superstars .

They have almost the same team that got swept by Columbus.

We pay more for our star talent than Boston yet our team is still better overall. They need us to put up historically bad special team numbers to even have a chance. I doubt that happens again .

Every good team is in a bad situation cap wise when it's all said and done. Wheres all the perks? They dont have room for both Carlo and McAvoy as it stands, do they? Huge discounts on their big 3 yet cap still wins.

Leafs are currently setup to win a cup. Cap hell or not, not many teams get to ice the team we will ice next season . If problems arise in the future where trades need to occur , these players will be highly sought after. The return will keep us near the top of the standings .

The key will be creating a factory to eventually replace AJ / Kap / Kerfoot. You need that 3-4 mil production on a 1 mil salary like we got from aj and kap last season . Other than that theres plenty of players out there ready to put their heart on their sleeve for 700k-1mil to fill out the rest of the roster .

Going back to Tampa...is anyone really scared of playoff Stamkos? I'm not.

Boston's team is garbage after their big 3. No need to sugar coat it. Marchand and berg are so old as well. While we are figuring out how to sign rielly theyll be worrying about how to rebuild. Even if we have to lose one of our stars theyll still be years behind us.

We do indeed have lots of cap issues moving forward but seems the whole league is following suit in some way or the other . Teams that arent, simply suck or trending downwards.

Nobody is taking us to the cleaners. Our top 5 puts us way ahead especially since 3 of them haven't even hit prime yet. Look how much damage Boston does with just 3 guys leading the charge .

Leafs are going to be competitive for a while. When tavares leaves the big 3 are still under 30 and rielly should still have at least 3 solid seasons left.

The doom and gloom around here makes no sense.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

I agree. If he wants to get paid like an elite line driver then he can drive his own line. One year deal - 7.5M - to prove he is worth what he demands. Play all three lines basically the same amount of time. Run two PPs basically the same with Matthews/Nylander/Barrie on the one and Tavares/Marner/Rielly on the other. At ES Mik/Moore - Kerfoot - Marner can be a line. Have at it.

Like your though process but it ain't gonna happen

 

[18leafsfan18]

We had one of those in Marleau, we gave up our 1st rounder to clear it off the books and took on Ceci to get rid of Brown and Zaitsev because were tight to the cap, Boston didn't have to do any of that and they still have Backes, you have some room for error if you don't screw yourself

The Dubas homers on here are as bad as the Marner homers, he's been taken to the woodshed twice and is about to get the same treatment from Marner yet you people still try to defend it

Just admit he was inexperienced, handled the Nylander situation badly and it's had a cascading effect that's killing our cap situation, it doesn't seem that complicated

Would love to know what you think those contracts should be ?

You don't have to be a Marner homer or Dubas homer to use logic and not be so negative.

 

[janesy12]

Point will sign before camp. His numbers will give Dubas some leverage

This is my feeling as well. Point and Rantanen will be signed at a good price/term and Dubas then has even more ammunition to end this foolish Ferris/Paul Marner spectacle.

 

[DarkKnight]

I refuse to get down on a kid who's done nothing but improve, succeed and shown tremendous heart...on and off the ice.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

We had one of those in Marleau, we gave up our 1st rounder to clear it off the books and took on Ceci to get rid of Brown and Zaitsev because were tight to the cap, Boston didn't have to do any of that and they still have Backes, you have some room for error if you don't screw yourself

The Dubas homers on here are as bad as the Marner homers, he's been taken to the woodshed twice and is about to get the same treatment from Marner yet you people still try to defend it

Just admit he was inexperienced, handled the Nylander situation badly and it's had a cascading effect that's killing our cap situation, it doesn't seem that complicated

So cleaning up Lou's mistakes is why Dubas sucks? I've never said that he is without criticism but that seems like a pretty poor reason.

The third year of the Marleau deal was going to be an issue the second he signed the deal regardless of what he paid the big three, and the Zaitsev deal looked bad from the second Lou signed it.

Those would have had to go regardless. Yes you have to pay a high price for that, but it had to be done.

There is zero chance that Matthews was going to sign a deal similar to any of Bostons guys. He scores goals at a generational rate for his age and at a premium position he was always going to get paid.

You could argue Nylander should have been paid a little less but going into his RFA status he was coming off of back to back 60 point seasons and there are only 28-29 active players that have done that by their age 22 season. Most of those guys are trending towards being hall of famers. Given his performance to that point his contract certainly seemed reasonable.

A couple things to note on the Bruins big 3 contracts as well:

Bergeron: signed coming off a 62 point season in 13/14 and had only topped 60 one other time in the previous 7 seasons. His best two years coming in 05/06 and 06/07. He looked to be a solid 60 point guy that was a good defensive center but far from the player he is viewed as now. Most players don't get better as they get older and the Bruins got lucky.

Marchand: was coming off an 85 point season in 16/17 but had only topped 60 points once in the previous 7 seasons. He took the security of getting paid $6M a year for 8 more years in the event that he returned to his previous career norms. Obviously he didn't but the Bruins took all the risk and got rewarded big time.

Pasta: Was coming off a 70 point season but only had 26 and 27 points in the previous two seasons. He, like Marchand took the security of the long term deal over betting on himself to repeat his performance.

We had three rookies that performed near historic levels during their ELC's and if you can't see how these contract situations are much different then I can't help you.

 

[DarkKnight]

 

[ShaneFalco]

Taken to the cleaners how?

Vasilevskiy and Point are going to combine for 20 mil. Tampa cant add any more superstars .

They have almost the same team that got swept by Columbus.

We pay more for our star talent than Boston yet our team is still better overall. They need us to put up historically bad special team numbers to even have a chance. I doubt that happens again .

Every good team is in a bad situation cap wise when it's all said and done. Wheres all the perks? They dont have room for both Carlo and McAvoy as it stands, do they? Huge discounts on their big 3 yet cap still wins.

Leafs are currently setup to win a cup. Cap hell or not, not many teams get to ice the team we will ice next season . If problems arise in the future where trades need to occur , these players will be highly sought after. The return will keep us near the top of the standings .

The key will be creating a factory to eventually replace AJ / Kap / Kerfoot. You need that 3-4 mil production on a 1 mil salary like we got from aj and kap last season . Other than that theres plenty of players out there ready to put their heart on their sleeve for 700k-1mil to fill out the rest of the roster .

Going back to Tampa...is anyone really scared of playoff Stamkos? I'm not.

Boston's team is garbage after their big 3. No need to sugar coat it. Marchand and berg are so old as well. While we are figuring out how to sign rielly theyll be worrying about how to rebuild. Even if we have to lose one of our stars theyll still be years behind us.

We do indeed have lots of cap issues moving forward but seems the whole league is following suit in some way or the other . Teams that arent, simply suck or trending downwards.

Nobody is taking us to the cleaners. Our top 5 puts us way ahead especially since 3 of them haven't even hit prime yet. Look how much damage Boston does with just 3 guys leading the charge .

Leafs are going to be competitive for a while. When tavares leaves the big 3 are still under 30 and rielly should still have at least 3 solid seasons left.

The doom and gloom around here makes no sense.

We can't have good things

 

[Nineteen67]

Crazy thought..... is 4 years the best deal?

4 x 9.16 or something.

Then.

Freddie 2 years
Rielly 3 years
Marner 4 years
Matty/Willy 5 years.

I’m not so sure what the last year of RFA does anyway? If he really didn’t want to sign He could still force his way out like Trouba.

We would lose him as a 1 year rental for a point/1st return.

It’s in the sweet spot. 5 is out, 6-8 are far too long.

 

[kk87]

Shouldn’t even be much of a negotiation at this point; given that the offer sheet threat clearly doesn’t exist (and never really did), Dubas has all the leverage. He can set the exact terms of the contract he wants Marner to sign - ideally between $9m-$10m for 6 years - and if Marner doesn’t like it his only option is to sit... not only does he miss out on playing, he misses out on a huge paycheque for each day he hasn’t signed. Unlike the Nylander camp, the Leafs literally don’t have the cap space to pay him any more money as the season wears on, so they really have nothing to gain from holding out.

Marner’s camp wants to maximize his take home salary, but him sitting an extended period of time could cost him millions. Unless everyone involved is arrogant and irrational enough to piss away money for no reason whatsoever, they should swallow their pride and sign the deal Dubas puts in front of them at some point this month.

I’m not saying I have full confidence in that happening, but it’s literally the only sensible outcome for the Marner camp. They literally have nothing else to gain.

 

[Nineteen67]

Speculating. Leafs’ fans buy more jerseys than any other fans and if they didn’t split the purchases among the big three Matthews would be number 1.

 

[Nineteen67]

Shouldn’t even be much of a negotiation at this point; given that the offer sheet threat clearly doesn’t exist (and never really did), Dubas has all the leverage. He can set the exact terms of the contract he wants Marner to sign - ideally between $9m-$10m for 6 years - and if Marner doesn’t like it his only option is to sit... not only does he miss out on playing, he misses out on a huge paycheque for each day he hasn’t signed. Unlike the Nylander camp, the Leafs literally don’t have the cap space to pay him any more money as the season wears on, so they really have nothing to gain from holding out.

Marner’s camp wants to maximize his take home salary, but him sitting an extended period of time could cost him millions. Unless everyone involved is arrogant and irrational enough to piss away money for no reason whatsoever, they should swallow their pride and sign the deal Dubas puts in front of them at some point this month.

I’m not saying I have full confidence in that happening, but it’s literally the only sensible outcome for the Marner camp. They literally have nothing else to gain.

So a take it or leave it offer? If he doesn’t take it do the Leafs play with 10+ million under the cap or sign an UFA?

 

[weems]

Do Vegas fans just buy Fleury jerseys?

 

[81Leafs50]

This is the last straw

Pierre Lebrun: "most teams have not talked at all with their RFA's. No body has worked harder to get their player signed then the Leafs. Leafs have been working hard and have been all over Marners camp"

GTFO Marner!

 

[kk87]

So a take it or leave it offer? If he doesn’t take it do the Leafs play with 10+ million under the cap or sign an UFA?

Yeah I was more just saying that in theory, it makes no sense for the Marner camp not just to take the offer the Leafs are making if they have nothing else to gain. If we’re playing games with that much cap space then the Marleau trade would have been entirely unnecessary.

 

[81Leafs50]

Do Vegas fans just buy Fleury jerseys?

I would if I was them. He is a HOFer most probably.

 

[hotpaws]

This is the last straw

Pierre Lebrun: "most teams have not talked at all with their RFA's. No body has worked harder to get their player signed then the Leafs. Leafs have been working hard and have been all over Marners camp"

GTFO Marner!

it's been reported numerous times the agents for the other high profile ufa's are waiting for Ferris to bend over Dubas and raise the bar higher just like the agents for Tavares/Mathews/Nylander did so it's no surprise there hasn't been any negotiations on there part yet

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah I was more just saying that in theory, it makes no sense for the Marner camp not just to take the offer the Leafs are making if they have nothing else to gain. If we’re playing games with that much cap space then the Marleau trade would have been entirely unnecessary.

Yep. Dubas would undo everything he did in the off-season, not too mention, he’d leave himself unable to match an OS in November.
Bottom line, both parties have leverage

 

[Nineteen67]

it's been reported numerous times the agents for the other high profile ufa's are waiting for Ferris to bend over Dubas and raise the bar higher just like the agents for Tavares/Mathews/Nylander did so it's no surprise there hasn't been any negotiations on there part yet

Who has reported that?

 

[18leafsfan18]

it's been reported numerous times the agents for the other high profile ufa's are waiting for Ferris to bend over Dubas and raise the bar higher just like the agents for Tavares/Mathews/Nylander did so it's no surprise there hasn't been any negotiations on there part yet

Such an incorrect comment.

"most teams have not talked at all with their RFA's. No body has worked harder to get their player signed then the Leafs. Leafs have been working hard and have been all over Marners camp"

Why would the teams wait for "Ferris to bend over Dubas". That would cost them more AAV for their players (In your incorrect, ridicules opinion).

Perfect example of your Dubas Hate. Your not even making sense anymore. Just a complete hater.

 

[81Leafs50]

it's been reported numerous times the agents for the other high profile ufa's are waiting for Ferris to bend over Dubas and raise the bar higher just like the agents for Tavares/Mathews/Nylander did so it's no surprise there hasn't been any negotiations on there part yet

Tavares got paid as a UFA. Unrestricted Free agent who has established himself as one of the best in the NHL. Mitch Marner is not top 10 in any meaningful stats. 12th in assists since being drafted, and 22nd in points. Mitch is also an RFA. Leafs are paying for RFA years not UFA years. There is a price difference.

Matthews is the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs at the No. 1 C position and captain. Matthews is 5th in goals scored since he was drafted. Matthews 1.74 goals/60 (best in the NHL since being drafted) no 2 is Ovie 1.64.

Matthews
pts/60 - 3.21
pts/game - 0.97
goals/60 - 1.74 (#1 in the NHL since Matthews was drafted)

Marner
pts/60 - 3.15
pts/game - 0.93
goals/60 - 0.94

Leafs initial offer to Nylander was $6.5M x 6 years and he ended up with 6.9M. Nylander started his negotiations with the following stats:
2016-2017 22 goals and 61 pts
2017-2018 20 goals and 61 pts

Marner
2016-2017 19 goals and 61 pts
2017-2018 22 goals and 69 pts

ONE 94 pt season does not make Marner a 10M player. IF it does then Nylander is one 90 pt season away from being a 10M player and a huge steal at 6.9M.

Saying the Leafs overpaid Tavares, Matthews, and Nylander is VERY disingenuous. Every player that has come to the table to negotiate has gotten fair deals.

Tavares, Matthews, Nylander, Johnsson got 3.4M, Kapanen got 3.2M, Kerfoot at 4.5M.....

Mitch will get a short term deal at 9M or less. HUGE mistake by a bad agent. Mitch can get 10M now, so why wait 3 years to make 10M ???

Dubas has signed lots of good deals. Everyone fits under the cap. He has made lots of good trades this offseason. leafs defense is 100 better than it was when the season ended.

 

[ShaneFalco]

it's been reported numerous times the agents for the other high profile ufa's are waiting for Ferris to bend over Dubas and raise the bar higher just like the agents for Tavares/Mathews/Nylander did so it's no surprise there hasn't been any negotiations on there part yet

So JT's agent went with Toronto because of an overpayment? I thought you said Tavares was coming here no matter what and Dubas had nothing to do with it? Nylander overpaid - we'll se but I think you'll eat your words (not that you will).

The only one Ferris is "bending over" as you keep saying, is Mitch at this point