Tribute Marner Appreciation Thread

[Mess]

I remembering hearing that Hunter was a little relieved that he wouldn't have to choose between Eichel and Marner.
He knew who he wanted but could you imagine the backlash if he passed on Eichel?

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.
All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

You would have selected Barzal at #4?? That would have been horrific. He isn't close to Marner, or multiple players that went after Marner, and didn't deserve to be selected 4th overall at the time or in hindsight. Barzal wasn't in the same Calder class as Eichel or Marner. They entered the league before him.
And it's weird you'd mention his one inflated season from half a decade ago, and not note that he's played at a 67 point pace since...

 

[ACC1224]

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

View attachment 665883
Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

Had a great rookie year no doubt but no where near the same tier as Marner currently.

 

[leafsfan5]

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

View attachment 665883
Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

Well we're very lucky you weren't the head of scouting then

Mitch was the perfect pick and is better at every aspect of the game

 

[Gary Nylund]

No question at #4 Marner was the Leafs pick, as this was Director of Amateur Scouting Mark Hunter's boy (with London) and Leafs scout Lindsay Hofford at the time knew Mitch since he was a young kid. Since they were the ones in charge of making the final selections there was little to no doubt they were taking Mitch.

I also agree if Leafs had traded up Hunter would have made a strong case for likely taking him, also perhaps even ahead of Eichel, but likely would have needed more arm twisting from others that had a vote.

What we do about the 2015 draft is ...

Mark Hunter wanted and selected Mitch Marner.
Coach Babcock was rumoured wanting the smooth skating Dman Noah Hanifin.
Interim GM Kyle Dubas attempted unsuccessfully to trade back from #4 to #8 (Perhaps hoping Marner might still be there) and secure more draft picks in the process.

The way I remember it is that the Leafs were interested in trading back only if Marner was gone by then.

 

[Antropovsky]

[

The way I remember it is that the Leafs were interested in trading back only if Marner was gone by then.

I believe leafs wanted two seconds from Columbus to move back, which eventually Columbus refused.

 

[Antropovsky]

Times are good now. One bad game and these people will come out of the woodwork. So far, I've only needed to block 2 Trolls and it is nice and quiet.

Not everyone. A few vocal supporters and a bunch of people who stayed silent in the face of a mob.

I only went back two pages and on each of those consecutive pages your talking about trolls being quiet. Just proof you are the real "troll" who is continually trying to stir things up. If it's quiet, why don't you just shut up and be happy that your apparently getting your way? Instead your still trying to engage these "quiet" posters into an argument. Only so you can complain about trolls again.

As I've said multiple times in the past. You are the real "troll".

 

[WillyC]

Cost controlled D (Hanifin - $4,950,000) can have sneaky value.

Is Marner worth 2 Haifin's ?

Probably 3.

 

[Notsince67]

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

View attachment 665883
Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

Yikes. Barzal? Today, he would be a 4th line center on the leafs.

Well we're very lucky you weren't the head of scouting then

Mitch was the perfect pick and is better at every aspect of the game

With O'Reilly on the team, Barzal would bump Lafferty to the wing on the 4th line.

 

[Mess]

Well we're very lucky you weren't the head of scouting then

Mitch was the perfect pick and is better at every aspect of the game

There is no question Marner has turned into an elite NHLer, but that was never really my doubt ... His size 5-11/165 at draft time had me concerned about NHL durability long-term much like we're seeing from Nick Roberston now, how despite his talent he isn't able to stay healthy against bigger stronger physical NHL players. Marner has shown an ability despite his size and lack of physicality to avoid taking and putting himself in areas where he would risk injury, using his hockey IQ and edges skating wise to avoid punishing hits.

Also among the scouting community you will always find that a #1C center will always have more value then a #1 winger if you are deciding between BPA. Teams are always trying to build strength down the middle through centres where possible.

With the Leafs already picking Willy Nylander a winger in 2014 to rebuild from the ground up a Centre in 2015 would have addressed a much bigger need than another skilled winger. Remember Mats Sundin was long gone and Leafs needed a true #1C with just the likes of Tyler Bozak and Nazem Kadri around, during the draft rebuild process.

Location location location.

Marner fell into the perfect spot for himself also to excel not only as a local Ontario kid, but because a year later the Leafs were drafting #1C Auston Matthews #1OA in 2016, and then a year after that signing #1C John Tavaras as a UFA in 2017 .. Both of which were complete unknowns in Leafs future at the time of the Marner selection in 2015. Marner is a gifted playmaker but for him to truly excel statistically he needs finishers which he gets in spades with Willy, Auston and Tavares. While Marner skills make them better, their skills of putting pucks in nets is what drives Marner's assist totals also in the process.

Had Marner been drafted #3 OA by Arizona instead of taking Dylan Strome, would anybody even be talking about him today in the same terms had he been lost in the desert among a failing organization with little to no support around him to succeed?

 

[leafsfan5]

There is no question Marner has turned into an elite NHLer, but that was never really my doubt ... His size 5-11/165 at draft time had me concerned about NHL durability long-term much like we're seeing from Nick Roberston now, how despite his talent he isn't able to stay healthy against bigger stronger physical NHL players. Marner has shown an ability despite his size and lack of physicality to avoid taking and putting himself in areas where he would risk injury, using his hockey IQ and edges skating wise to avoid punishing hits.

Also among the scouting community you will always find that a #1C center will always have more value then a #1 winger if you are deciding between BPA. Teams are always trying to build strength down the middle through centres where possible.

With the Leafs already picking Willy Nylander a winger in 2014 to rebuild from the ground up a Centre in 2015 would have addressed a much bigger need than another skilled winger. Remember Mats Sundin was long gone and Leafs needed a true #1C with just the likes of Tyler Bozak and Nazem Kadri around, during the draft rebuild process.

Location location location.

Marner fell into the perfect spot for himself also to excel not only as a local Ontario kid, but because a year later the Leafs were drafting #1C Auston Matthews #1OA in 2016, and then a year after that signing #1C John Tavaras as a UFA in 2017 .. Both of which were complete unknowns in Leafs future at the time of the Marner selection in 2015. Marner is a gifted playmaker but for him to truly excel statistically he needs finishers which he gets in spades with Willy, Auston and Tavares. While Marner skills make them better, their skills of putting pucks in nets is what drives Marner's assist totals also in the process.

Had Marner been drafted #3 OA by Arizona instead of taking Dylan Strome, would anybody even be talking about him today in the same terms had he been lost in the desert among a failing organization with little to no support around him to succeed?

I mean Robertson/Marner were never really comparable. From day 1 in his junior days you could see Mitch's IQ was off the charts, he knew where to be and what to do before it was done. Robertson was never close to him in terms of smarts and that's partly the reason why he keeps getting hurt (he doesn't understand when to slow down and when to speed up)

Mitch would produce regardless of those guys tbh, when he was on the wing with JVR/Bozak he was putting up great assist numbers. Players like Mitch are so good all you need to do is put your stick on the ice and he will get you an open net to tap it into, ROR even mentioned as much when he first got here

And Marner is obviously in an ideal situation here, but I think he would have been great regardless of where he went. Arizona has had some good players on their team too so it's not impossible to succeed there. Mitch just would've been so good that another club would have got him for cheap when the Coyotes would inevitably be unable to afford him

Yikes. Barzal? Today, he would be a 4th line center on the leafs.


With O'Reilly on the team, Barzal would bump Lafferty to the wing on the 4th line.

We probably would've done what NYI did with Barzal, put him on RW. He'd end up beside Matthews and be a diet version of what Marner is

Outside of skating I'm not sure there's a single thing Barzal is better at. He's a good player, but the Leafs luckily made the right choice that day

 

[ACC1224]

Yikes. Barzal? Today, he would be a 4th line center on the leafs.

He'd be a fantastic but overpaid 3rd line center here.

 

[Gabriel426]

Just glad Arizona picked Strome instead of Hannifin or MM.
Bc I have a feeling if Strome was available, they would have picked him over MM.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We probably would've done what NYI did with Barzal, put him on RW. He'd end up beside Matthews and be a diet version of what Marner is

Outside of skating I'm not sure there's a single thing Barzal is better at. He's a good player, but the Leafs luckily made the right choice that day

Not sure Barzal's even a better skater. Marner doesn't have blazing speed but his edgework is so good that perhaps it's fair to say that they're both good skaters, just different?

 

[ACC1224]

Just glad Arizona picked Strome instead of Hannifin or MM.
Bc I have a feeling if Strome was available, they would have picked him over MM.

0 chance that was happening.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is no question Marner has turned into an elite NHLer, but that was never really my doubt ... His size 5-11/165 at draft time had me concerned about NHL durability long-term much like we're seeing from Nick Roberston now, how despite his talent he isn't able to stay healthy against bigger stronger physical NHL players. Marner has shown an ability despite his size and lack of physicality to avoid taking and putting himself in areas where he would risk injury, using his hockey IQ and edges skating wise to avoid punishing hits.

Also among the scouting community you will always find that a #1C center will always have more value then a #1 winger if you are deciding between BPA. Teams are always trying to build strength down the middle through centres where possible.

With the Leafs already picking Willy Nylander a winger in 2014 to rebuild from the ground up a Centre in 2015 would have addressed a much bigger need than another skilled winger. Remember Mats Sundin was long gone and Leafs needed a true #1C with just the likes of Tyler Bozak and Nazem Kadri around, during the draft rebuild process.

Location location location.

Marner fell into the perfect spot for himself also to excel not only as a local Ontario kid, but because a year later the Leafs were drafting #1C Auston Matthews #1OA in 2016, and then a year after that signing #1C John Tavaras as a UFA in 2017 .. Both of which were complete unknowns in Leafs future at the time of the Marner selection in 2015. Marner is a gifted playmaker but for him to truly excel statistically he needs finishers which he gets in spades with Willy, Auston and Tavares. While Marner skills make them better, their skills of putting pucks in nets is what drives Marner's assist totals also in the process.

Had Marner been drafted #3 OA by Arizona instead of taking Dylan Strome, would anybody even be talking about him today in the same terms had he been lost in the desert among a failing organization with little to no support around him to succeed?

That's fair, and you certainly weren't the only one who had concerns about Marner's durability (and the Nick Robertson story is on point).

I mentioned this in a post a few days ago - Marner's durability is something that doesn't get talked about any more. That's because it's no longer an issue but I remembered those concerns and thought it was worth mentioning what a positive development that is.

 

[thewave]

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

View attachment 665883
Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

Quite a few wanted that move done. It was the trade down and take Barzal or get Provorov or Werenski. Some liked Rantanen as well and of course Hanifin.

I think we did well in our selection minus the overpay. I don't think anyone should have buyers remorse is all I am saying.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just glad Arizona picked Strome instead of Hannifin or MM.
Bc I have a feeling if Strome was available, they would have picked him over MM.

What makes you say that? IIRC the buzz was that Hunter was all over Marner and I don't remember anything about any brass wanting Strome so it was Marner or Hanifin all the way.

 

[AvroArrow]

If Shanahan, Dubas, Hunter and Babcock all got a vote if it were between Marner and Eichel at #2, I think as much as Hunter was convinced I'm not sure he would have gotten a consensus vote to make it happen.

A big 6-2 / 210 lbs franchise Center in Eichel vs. a 5-11 / 165 lbs highly skilled Winger in Marner.. The scouting community still values Centers >> Wingers in team building value so it would have been a tough sell, IMO

PS. All I know with 100% certainty had I been Leafs Dir of Amateur Scouting (instead of Hunter) I would have selected the smooth skating Matty Barzal for my Leafs at #4.

All he did was put up in 82 games 22 goals 63 assists & 85 points and win the Calder as Rookie of the year from his 2015 draft class along with Eichel and Marner.

View attachment 665883
Islanders' Mathew Barzal wins Calder Trophy as NHL's rookie of the year.

And hasn't done shit after that lol

 

[IPS]

2023 and we're still seeing Mat Barzal get brought up in regards to Marner.

Wow. The comparison was stupid 7 years ago and it's a lot stupider now.

 

[Notsince67]

He'd be a fantastic but overpaid 3rd line center here.

I prefer O'Rielly TBH.

 

[Gabriel426]

0 chance that was happening.

What makes you say that? IIRC the buzz was that Hunter was all over Marner and I don't remember anything about any brass wanting Strome so it was Marner or Hanifin all the way.

Bc Strome was projected as 1C. Do remember that at the time of the draft, we didn’t have AM. Only Willie was in the system as C.

Also, I don’t think they ever thought Arizona won’t draft Strome thus it was always MM or Hannifin or Werenski.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bc Strome was projected as 1C. Do remember that at the time of the draft, we didn’t have AM. Only Willie was in the system as C.

Also, I don’t think they ever thought Arizona won’t draft Strome thus it was always MM or Hannifin or Werenski.

All I remember is that Hunter supposedly wanted Marner, Babs wanted Hanifin and the only people that wanted Strome were some random posters on this board.

 

[Gabriel426]

All I remember is that Hunter supposedly wanted Marner, Babs wanted Hanifin and the only people that wanted Strome were some random posters on this board.

I don’t think they ever viewed Strome as an option bc they knew he won’t be available. Kind of like Oilers with Poolparty, they never thought he would be available and once he is, they ended up taking him.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Don't forget interim GM Kyle Dubas attempted to trade back to #8 with Columbus requesting a bunch of 2nds in the process.

There is an actual youtube leaked confirmation video showing Columbus management discussing and turning down Leafs offer, because they felt the Dman they would get at #8 (Werenski/Provorov) would be similar in value to Noah Hanifin rated #4, so it wasn't worth the multiple 2nds to move up. So they declined Dubas trade back attempt and Leaks picked Marner at #4, whom Hunter wanted.

Blue Jackets draft video shows Leafs offered pick No. 4 for picks No. 8, 34, 38, 58​

A video released by Jackets TV shows Toronto was interested in moving back from fourth overall if Arizona didn't take Noah Hanifin.

View attachment 665864

Leafs offered fourth overall pick to Blue Jackets

A video released by Jackets TV shows Toronto was interested in moving back from fourth overall if Arizona didn't take Noah Hanifin.

www.pensionplanpuppets.com

This is who was actually drafted in those positions.

#4 Mitch Marner

For

#8 Zach Werenski
#34 Travis Dermott
#38 Paul Bittner
#58 Kevin Stenlund


Sebastian Aho (the good one) was drafted one spot after Dermott. I’m thinking if we made that trade would have went with Werenski & Aho instead of Dermott.

Although in an ideal world we come out of that draft with Marner & Aho. 2/3rds of a top line.