Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

[67Cup]

Niemela has below average puck skills? I certainly don’t agree with that. For one thing, making that good first pass, something Pronman praises, is a puck skill. Getting a shot through to the net is a puck skill. Making a clever cross ice pass to set up a goal in a gold medal game also involves puck skill. Being a top scorer among dmen in Liiga as a U20 requires consistent puck skill.

And something everyone here knows, Niemela is the kind of player a coach puts on the ice in a gold medal OT game and who comes within a few millimetres of winning gold.

 

[mistaclick]

Niemela has below average puck skills? I certainly don’t agree with that. For one thing, making that good first pass, something Pronman praises, is a puck skill. Getting a shot through to the net is a puck skill. Making a clever cross ice pass to set up a goal in a gold medal game also involves puck skill. Being a top scorer among dmen in Liiga as a U20 requires consistent puck skill.

And something everyone here knows, Niemela is the kind of player a coach puts on the ice in a gold medal OT game and who comes within a few millimetres of winning gold.

I’d say puck skills above NHL average for dman but skating is probably a bit below “NHL average”. Lacks high end speed and his stride isn’t optimal, but good lateral mobility overall, good edges

 

[andora]

I’d say puck skills above NHL average for dman but skating is probably a bit below “NHL average”. Lacks high end speed and his stride isn’t optimal, but good lateral mobility overall, good edges

Sounds like stralman to me

Smarts and edges can go very well together

 

[Fogelhund]

Sounds like stralman to me

Smarts and edges can go very well together

Stralman's skating was excellent though wasn't it?

 

[uncleben]

Stralman's skating was excellent though wasn't it?

Even younger, his speed was never really anything to write home about, from what I remember, but he could accelerate well enough, and his edgework was great, and his steady puck-handling and poise really pulled it together

 

[andora]

Stralman's skating was excellent though wasn't it?

his skating was always strong but without speed.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Pronman / Wheeler suck.

I think when we signed Mikhayev as a free wallet, they said he was average speed.

 

[justashadowof]

That's him fighting TBay's Andrei Vasilevsky's older brother.

 

[notdoneyet]

I think all the posters on this board who profess to be experts in skating styles and player deficiencies are phonies trying to give a bullshit opinion to get recognition for something they know nothing about.

The NHL is full of slow hockey players that have bad skating habits.
These slow players with bad crossovers and bad hips and no straight line speed all somehow make it to the big show.

We have a 19 year old prospect that does nothing but succeed and some self gratifying poster tries to break him down by criticizing his skating skills. I’ll take the opinion of the coach at the WJC that played him Over 24 minutes a night or the coach of the men’s league where as a youngster playing against men he continually puts up points and plays great defense even with all his skating deficiencies.

 

[LaPlante94]

I think all the posters on this board who profess to be experts in skating styles and player deficiencies are phonies trying to give a bullshit opinion to get recognition for something they know nothing about.

The NHL is full of slow hockey players that have bad skating habits.
These slow players with bad crossovers and bad hips and no straight line speed all somehow make it to the big show.

We have a 19 year old prospect that does nothing but succeed and some self gratifying poster tries to break him down by criticizing his skating skills. I’ll take the opinion of the coach at the WJC that played him Over 24 minutes a night or the coach of the men’s league where as a youngster playing against men he continually puts up points and plays great defense even with all his skating deficiencies.

It's crazy that some of the best hockey players to play this game weren't known as the best skaters but more so for their Hockey IQ yet some people will only value skating as a must have to play in this league.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's crazy that some of the best hockey players to play this game weren't known as the best skaters but more so for their Hockey IQ yet some people will only value skating as a must have to play in this league.

Fair point, but the game has also evolved in a manner where skating is more important. That isn’t a comment meant to address any player in particular, just a general comment.

 

[ULF_55]

Fair point, but the game has also evolved in a manner where skating is more important. That isn’t a comment meant to address any player in particular, just a general comment.

Yes, skating is now permitted and waterskiing is not.

Makes a difference when you are permitted to use your skills.

 

[LaPlante94]

Fair point, but the game has also evolved in a manner where skating is more important. That isn’t a comment meant to address any player in particular, just a general comment.

I still don't think it's more important in this era but it definitely does help. If you have the hockey IQ then you can control the game and have people play how you want them to play and at the pace you want the game to be played. Ice isn't that big so taking away a players speed isn't that difficult if that's your main focus on how to shut down that player. That's why McDavid is simply just on another level because he's not just the best skater in the league but one of the best minds in the game as well.

 

[andora]

I still don't think it's more important in this era but it definitely does help. If you have the hockey IQ then you can control the game and have people play how you want them to play and at the pace you want the game to be played. Ice isn't that big so taking away a players speed isn't that difficult if that's your main focus on how to shut down that player. That's why McDavid is simply just on another level because he's not just the best skater in the league but one of the best minds in the game as well.

Speed and its importance now is just different.. speed use to be important to give players an edge, it made players stand out and make big event plays

Speed now has changed in importance to that it allows players to keep up. Sure you can still survive without it but you better be smart and know how to anticipate.

What you said about taking away a players space is not that difficult - if you arent fast you better be strong at anticipating where that player is going to be and get a head start

 

[Prominence]

Some late night reading and i came across this:

Analysis: Ryan Tverberg…His game has speed and he attacks the net with skill — a style of play that will translate to the pros. He’s not physically imposing off the puck, but he competes well enough to potentially be a bottom-six winger.

Tell me you’re not a good scout without telling me you’re not a good scout.

He also said topi niemela’s skating was average because he’s not explosive and mysteriously omitted knies’ shooting score among other things.

 

[hullsy47]

Sounds like stralman to me

Smarts and edges can go very well together

Kaberle

That's him fighting TBay's Andrei Vasilevsky's older brother.

Looks like a beauty

 

[Tarmore]

Some late night reading and i came across this:

Analysis: Ryan Tverberg…His game has speed and he attacks the net with skill — a style of play that will translate to the pros. He’s not physically imposing off the puck, but he competes well enough to potentially be a bottom-six winger.

Tell me you’re not a good scout without telling me you’re not a good scout.

He also said topi niemela’s skating was average because he’s not explosive and mysteriously omitted knies’ shooting score among other things.

Who is the writer?

 

[stickty111]

Some late night reading and i came across this:

Analysis: Ryan Tverberg…His game has speed and he attacks the net with skill — a style of play that will translate to the pros. He’s not physically imposing off the puck, but he competes well enough to potentially be a bottom-six winger.

Tell me you’re not a good scout without telling me you’re not a good scout.

He also said topi niemela’s skating was average because he’s not explosive and mysteriously omitted knies’ shooting score among other things.

Who is the writer?

Corey Pronman

 

[Tarmore]

Corey Pronman

Ok that makes sense.

 

[daethfromabove1979]

VHL preseason update from two days ago



from today



VHL season starts on Saturday where both Peksa and Akhtyamov will be. KHL is Thursday, hopefully for Ovchinnikov and Grebyenkin.

 

[Stephen]

Sounds like stralman to me

Smarts and edges can go very well together

I wonder how much of it is lazy reporting that they're basically recycling the Sandin scouting report of a brainy defenseman who doesn't have wheels, or if Niemela is simply under powered at this stage of his development? I suppose both could be true, but also could fit into the pattern of what the Leafs value and look for.

 

[andora]

I wonder how much of it is lazy reporting that they're basically recycling the Sandin scouting report of a brainy defenseman who doesn't have wheels, or if Niemela is simply under powered at this stage of his development? I suppose both could be true, but also could fit into the pattern of what the Leafs value and look for.

i would probably put a % on scouting reports as quite high in terms of lazy reporting. it's easy to see things, think of a player with similar things, find the similarities because you're looking for them and boom - you have a comparison that you can probably get a couple paragraphs out of.

most of the shit i read on sites reads as 'lazy'. for once i would like love to read things like "very strong at identifying when to back outside the blueline preparing for a rush" or "quick to identify passing lanes being closed"..

 

[Leafed]

VHL preseason update from two days ago:
-
VHL season starts on Saturday where both Peksa and Akhtyamov will be. KHL is Thursday, hopefully for Ovchinnikov and Grebyenkin.

Not familiar with the KHL and his team's ability (especially now) but if Grebyenkin can play a role in the top 9 all season that's got to be great value (even as an overager) in the 5th round? Seems to have interesting tools and a pro mindset... recall Dubas/Clark describing him as "machine-like".

Is Peksa looking like the better of the two Russian goalies? First season in the VHL coming up.

And what did Marlie watchers think of Ovchinnikov last year?

 

[Prominence]

Not familiar with the KHL and his team's ability (especially now) but if Grebyenkin can play a role in the top 9 all season that's got to be great value (even as an overager) in the 5th round? Seems to have interesting tools and a pro mindset... recall Dubas/Clark describing him as "machine-like".

Is Peksa looking like the better of the two Russian goalies? First season in the VHL coming up.

And what did Marlie watchers think of Ovchinnikov last year?

Grebyonkin playing on the 3rd line is average value as he’s a draft plus one overager. He’s going to be 20 soon. He’s a skilled guy, but to me, a pro mindset is doing all the little things like winning board battles, executing zone entries, stick picks, delivering hits, etc and from watching 2-3 mhl games, i do not see any of that. I do not know what dubas or clark means when grebyonkin is described as “machine-like.”

I believe peksa is the more conventional goalie. Artur has played in the higher leagues longer than slava peksa. Both are the same age.

Ovchinnikov is about to waste another year in the khl. He should played in the ahl instead.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ovchinnikov is about to waste another year in the khl. He should played in the ahl instead.

Ovchinnikov is not going to get better minutes on the Marlies unless we force-feed him. We have better prospects to play over him right now.

Don't really know what to do with him right now. If he can't crack Sibir as a D+3, it is not looking great for him. It is not like they are stacked, and they will take the best players. If he is not one of the best players on a mediocre team, even if it is the KHL, then his chances are not looking good as a guy who is realistically expected to be challenging a much more stacked team in a much more advanced league within the next few years.

Hopefully he worked on being more versatile. He has the speed and intelligence to be a valuable two-way player, but I am not sold on the desire. If he just wants to be a pure offensive player, he is going to continue to struggle cracking the KHL and he certainly is not cracking the NHL. He is simply not talented enough offensively for that. If he can provide more dimension to his game, then he is more likely to crack the KHL and he may even make it to the NHL as a guy similar to Jarnkrok (without the ability to play center).