Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

[stickty111]

Mirtle with more anti-Liljegren nonsense today.

I don't get how someone can get paid to follow this team, and still have opinions that people who don't watch the Marlies have lol

He said Liljegren has a lack of decision making ability.

One of the key pros to Liljegren's game right now, is how good he is in transition on both sides of the ice, which is heavily reliant on quick decision making.

It boggles my mind

At this point, we need to accept that mainstream is clueless when it comes to Liljegren and Leafs prospects in general. There was a good tweet I saw that said if you listen to Mirtle and Siegel, you would think the Leafs best prospect is Kenny Agostino.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Honestly our prospect pool might not have the flashiest names. But I think we’ll have a handful of NHLers come up - whether it’s with us or another team.

The talent is there, and a lot of these guys continue to progress. Excited to see what happens

 

[Twine Tickler]

Looks great here but unfortunately needs an injury to Bobkov of Bilyalov (probably both) if he wants to see regular action in the KHL this year.

Honetly I have very little knowledge on players outside of the Leafs system and/or other Leagues. I am not sure who those 2 goalies are to be honest, and if they hold any threat to Artur seeing consistent time in the KHL.
I found the article where it mentions a more clear path for Artur this season. It was written May of this year so I don't know if Ak-Bars acquired someone in place of the departing goalie or not, but it did apear at the time that he may get a look. Not sure if anyone on here knows the KHL well enough to be able to give a better understanding. The article is from maple leafs hotstove so I am not 100% sure how much they really know either.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021...ussia-mikhail-abramov-scores-series-clincher/

 

[Cor]

At this point, we need to accept that mainstream is clueless when it comes to Liljegren and Leafs prospects in general. There was a good tweet I saw that said if you listen to Mirtle and Siegel, you would think the Leafs best prospect is Kenny Agostino.

Correct Point. I did like Kenny Agostino Still don't get why he never got a shot with us. I quite liked his game.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Honetly I have very little knowledge on players outside of the Leafs system and/or other Leagues. I am not sure who those 2 goalies are to be honest, and if they hold any threat to Artur seeing consistent time in the KHL.
I found the article where it mentions a more clear path for Artur this season. It was written May of this year so I don't know if Ak-Bars acquired someone in place of the departing goalie or not, but it did apear at the time that he may get a look. Not sure if anyone on here knows the KHL well enough to be able to give a better understanding. The article is from maple leafs hotstove so I am not 100% sure how much they really know either.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021...ussia-mikhail-abramov-scores-series-clincher/

View attachment 460646

They signed Bobkov to replace Reideborn.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Correct Point. I did like Kenny Agostino Still don't get why he never got a shot with us. I quite liked his game.

Not good enough defensively to play in a bottom 6, not good enough offensively to play in a top 6 or as the more offensive option on a 3rd line. Textbook AAAA player.

 

[Twine Tickler]

They signed Bobkov to replace Reideborn.

OK, Makes sense.

looking at it closer it looks like Bobkov was either hurt or got outplayed by the other goalie in Avangard's Gagarin Cup team. AT least in the playoffs, it looks like he played less games. Hopefully it was that he sucked and continues to suck lol. I'd love to see Artur play at the next level. I believe AK-Bars orginization also has a VHL affiliate. But I also know there was some issues with Amirov going to the VHL affiliate because geographically they were so far away that it reduced UFA's ability to call him up if need be, and often would call kids up from the MHL club instead which was closer. Again, I know very little about that league and most of the players in it. I ultimately just want Artur to get chance to play at a higher level at some point in the year

 

[Minty Cowboy]

OK, Makes sense.

looking at it closer it looks like Bobkov was either hurt or got outplayed by the other goalie in Avangard's Gagarin Cup team. AT least in the playoffs, it looks like he played less games. Hopefully it was that he sucked and continues to suck lol. I'd love to see Artur play at the next level. I believe AK-Bars orginization also has a VHL affiliate. But I also know there was some issues with Amirov going to the VHL affiliate because geographically they were so far away that it reduced UFA's ability to call him up if need be, and often would call kids up from the MHL club instead which was closer. Again, I know very little about that league and most of the players in it. I ultimately just want Artur to get chance to play at a higher level at some point in the year

That was Ovchinnikov not Amirov

 

[Knies iT]

We saw the errors that Sandin can make - and he made the same ones in the AHL - and I just find it odd how people can look at those errors Sandin makes, and watch Liljegren play - on the same team - and view Sandin as a NHL read prospect, and Liljegren as a nothing prospect. Now, that isn't me shitting on Sandin - he is a stud prospect, and I personally have Sandin and Liljegren in the same tier - however it's just comparing the two, in my opinion - there is one that has some work to do, and is better suited for the AHL right now - even if only for a couple months, and another that is ready to get a lengthy chance in the NHL

The difference is this:

NHL Sandin looks very similar to AHL Sandin (stylistically). Sometimes gets burned wide due to lack of foot speed when changing direction, sometimes outmuscled defensively, but extremely confident in transition and makes high IQ decisions with the puck. Can control the ice at both levels.

NHL Liljegren and AHL Liljegren are totally different players. The latter is an elite AHL #1D and all-star who is solid in all three zones, but in the NHL he's slightly mentally behind, reacts a bit late, and has low confidence. He has not once shown any glimpse of being able to replicate his AHL play in the NHL, while Sandin has had extended periods of looking like a future top pair guy, until he makes a high profile gaffe. Not to say TL hasn't looked ok, just hasn't excelled per se.

Is that disparity due to small sample size/lack of opportunity, or an inability to adapt to NHL pace due to a decision-making problem? Remains to be seen, and although i'm very high on Liljegren still, this management group has done a pretty damn good job assessing their prospects to this point.

 

[Twine Tickler]

That was Ovchinnikov not Amirov

Right. I knew it was one of the 2.

Shows my level of KHL knowledge lol

 

[aingefan]

I don’t remember a prospect being subject to such polarizing opinions as Lili.
One report will say the team doesn’t like him, his IQ; the other says he’s untouchable.
Not yo mention the scrutiny the fanbase gives him.
I think he’s gonna surprise in a good way.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Mirtle with more anti-Liljegren nonsense today.

I don't get how someone can get paid to follow this team, and still have opinions that people who don't watch the Marlies have lol

He said Liljegren has a lack of decision making ability.

One of the key pros to Liljegren's game right now, is how good he is in transition on both sides of the ice, which is heavily reliant on quick decision making.

It boggles my mind

Liljegren's decision making at the AHL level looks elite to me, especially in transition and in the offensive zone. He can be prone to gaffes, but that's because he has the puck all the time. Every single player who owns the puck makes glaring mistakes from time to time. Taking risks to be creative and generate offense is frankly the least concerning trait a player can have, because they can easily learn to manage risks, and he has been

 

[zeke]

Artur with a 24 save shutout in KHL pre season.

First goalie prospect I've been excited about since.....Reimer?

Kid is good.

 

[hamzarocks]

Lilijgren in his D+5 next year and isn't a top 4RHD yet.

I don't get why we don't run Muzzin-Lilijgren and Dermott/Sandin - Holl with both pairings getting 19 minutes a game or so and giving tbe top pairing 22 minutes (Rielly+Brodie)

Leafs organization never treats lilijgren as if he's a quality prospect who will be an impact NHL player.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I feel like if we are impatient with Lili we are gonna have the same issue we had with stralman...we got tired of waiting and boy was high as hell on him.....i know its not the same level of hype since one is a 7th round pick and one is a 1st round pick. However the raw skill was there, and Lili i think got heavily demoralized mentally after his bout with Mono and other shit. It still seems like he's trying to figure it out and I think Keefe gave him some motivation from the looks of it but still trying to get that gear going.

 

[zeke]

Maybe a stupid question, but since when is Ahktyamov a good prospect?

Always got the impression he was basically on par with Woll/Scott

I've always had him far ahead of those two, personally. Those 2 aren't real prospects imo.

Akhtyamov has elite numbers at every level - good enough to get a taste of the KHL at age 18, which is not easy. Even gave Askarov a run for his money.

Scott basically has had one great year at 19 - and every other year has been awful. Woll was a just ok NCAA goalie and has never done anything else.

 

[zeke]

Age 17

Akhtyamov (MHL): 54gms, .921
Woll (USDP): 33gms .918
Scott (CHL): 50gms, .895

Age 18

Akhtyamov (MHL): 46gms, .931
Woll (NCAA): 34gms, .913 (WJC 2gms, .935)
Scott (CHL): 50gms, .897 (Plyff 7gms, .897)

Age 19

Akhtyamov (MHL): 9gms, .935 - VHL: 14gms, .927 - KHL 3gms, .904 (WJC 1gm, .944)
Scott (CHL): 49gms, .932 (Plyff 23gms, .925) (WJC 1gms, .882)
Woll (NCAA): 30gms, .915 (WJC 5gms, .886)


Scott did have that one great final junior year where he looked like he might have been on this kind of level but that year now looks pretty clearly like a fluke. Whereas Akhtyamov has been on that kind of level the whole time. And Woll never was.

 

[stickty111]

Age 17

Akhtyamov (MHL): 54gms, .921
Woll (USDP): 33gms .918
Scott (CHL): 50gms, .895

Age 18

Akhtyamov (MHL): 46gms, .931
Woll (NCAA): 34gms, .913 (WJC 2gms, .935)
Scott (CHL): 50gms, .897 (Plyff 7gms, .897)

Age 19

Akhtyamov (MHL): 9gms, .935 - VHL: 14gms, .927 - KHL 3gms, .904 (WJC 1gm, .944)
Scott (CHL): 49gms, .932 (Plyff 23gms, .925) (WJC 1gms, .882)
Woll (NCAA): 30gms, .915 (WJC 5gms, .886)


Scott did have that one great final junior year where he looked like he might have been on this kind of level but that year now looks pretty clearly like a fluke. Whereas Akhtyamov has been on that kind of level the whole time. And Woll never was.

You can't say that when Scott has hardly played since his final junior season.

 

[nuck]

I don’t remember a prospect being subject to such polarizing opinions as Lili.
One report will say the team doesn’t like him, his IQ; the other says he’s untouchable.
Not yo mention the scrutiny the fanbase gives him.
I think he’s gonna surprise in a good way.

Most of the knocks seem to come from outside of the organization and the fan base. Maybe we are all homers here but this year's sample was too small to matter and I really can't read a ton into his first taste of the show at age 20. There is no evidence of Keefe being a big fan but he had 3 veteran RD playing pretty well last year so not a priority to create developmental opportunity in addition to what they were trying to make happen with Sandin.

Duncan Keith was 22 for his first taste of the NHL. Stralman was probably not NHL ready until 23. Hjarmalsson became a full time NHLer at 22. There is nothing wrong with Lily's development curve so far however all three of these others stepped right into top 4 minutes at 22-23. Maybe he doesn't have Keith potential, but honestly Keith didn't look like it either at age 21. I don't know that he will be that guy this year but there is a chance. I hope he wins a spot in camp.

 

[stickty111]

I think most people have Amirov behind Liljegren and Robertson, but I think he's probably our top prospect. I can't wait to see what he does with a bigger role

I'm with you. I think Amirov has the highest upside in the system which is scary considering I have Liljegren and Sandin's ceiling as no 2's.

 

[Stephen]

Maybe a stupid question, but since when is Ahktyamov a good prospect?

Always got the impression he was basically on par with Woll/Scott

With mid round goalies you generally look for a leap in development post draft as an indicator of viability as a future NHL goalie. Remember when Woll was drafted he was sort of in a cluster with Parsons and a few other guys, slightly behind Hart. Hart took massive leaps forward and is now a future franchise goalie.

I believe Woll may have been the heir to Thatcher Demko so there was a path forward for him that way in the early days. Don’t think that’s likely anymore however.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I've always had him far ahead of those two, personally. Those 2 aren't real prospects imo.

Akhtyamov has elite numbers at every level - good enough to get a taste of the KHL at age 18, which is not easy. Even gave Askarov a run for his money.

Scott basically has had one great year at 19 - and every other year has been awful. Woll was a just ok NCAA goalie and has never done anything else.

Putting up a .930 save percentage in the MHL, especially when you play for a better program like Kazan, is mediocre at best. At this point, short of Akhtyamov making an unexpected rise on the depth chart, he is behind in his development vs. most other successful Russian goalie prospects. Getting 3 KHL games as a late D+1 or getting into one game as a U20 backup on Russia is not impressive.

Scott was the best player on Prince Albert for 3 years. His numbers were not bad despite being on arguably the worst team in the CHL in his DY and the main reason his team even made it to the WHL playoffs in his DY+1 season. In DY+2, he was the main reason why they won a championship. Injury troubles are the only thing holding him back right now.

Woll has not had much better. He was the best player on his team in both his Sophomore and Junior year, and arguably the second best player behind Colin White in his Freshman year too. BC really went as far as he would take him. Then he went to the Marlies who, outside of maybe the first 10 games of his AHL career when Keefe was still coach, has been one of the worst teams in the AHL.

Woll and Scott are far more likely to amount to something than Akhtyamov, and showed a lot more in their DY and DY+1 years than Akhtyamov has. So I think it is safe to say that those two are much better prospects than either of our Russian goalies, and are definitely more of 'real' prospects (as long as Scott's injuries have not completely destroyed his career) than either of those two Russian goalies, who are already trending towards bust territory compared to most other Russian prospects.

 

[Stephen]

I think most people have Amirov behind Liljegren and Robertson, but I think he's probably our top prospect. I can't wait to see what he does with a bigger role

Amirov looks like he’s a quite a bit more talented than Robertson.

 

[nuck]

I feel like if we are impatient with Lili we are gonna have the same issue we had with stralman...we got tired of waiting and boy was high as hell on him.....i know its not the same level of hype since one is a 7th round pick and one is a 1st round pick. However the raw skill was there, and Lili i think got heavily demoralized mentally after his bout with Mono and other shit. It still seems like he's trying to figure it out and I think Keefe gave him some motivation from the looks of it but still trying to get that gear going.

The Leafs were hovering right around .500 when Stralman came in with Toskala and Raycroft in net so Liljegren can't ever be in as bad a place. If they trust him enough to let him take the 3rd pair spot without bringing a veteran in the mix that will be significant. He has almost 200 pro games not including Sweden and he has NHL size and footspeed. This looks like it should be his time to leave the AHL for good.

 

[zeke]

Putting up a .930 save percentage in the MHL, especially when you play for a better program like Kazan, is mediocre at best.

This is false. There is nothing mediocre about a .930sv% in the MHL, nor a .927 in the VHL.

At this point, short of Akhtyamov making an unexpected rise on the depth chart, he is behind in his development vs. most other successful Russian goalie prospects.
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Please show your work.