Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

[4thline]

Ok, something strange is clearly happening with this world:

Looking at those clips it seems like he's playing PP, is that a regular thing this season? Like has he just rocketed up their depth chart or is it more of chemistry/ line blender experiment

 

[Twine Tickler]

Kokkonen played almost every single shift behind first and second line and Rindell was regularly behind third and fourth



He was with the national team in Sweden and because of Covid stayed in quarantine after that for two weeks, meaning could only do outdoor training alone. After that it took several games to get back in normal level for actually every single player who was part of that national team



Actually I already answered that in the comment I told how late grower Rindell was and with Kokkonen quite the opposite



No 100% knowledge, could be familiar coach in Pelicans or wouldn´t get the role he wanted in Jukurit or he just didn´t get a new contract.



Public information in liiga.fi pages. You can find top speeds, hardest shots etc. there.

And also could ask Morgs why do you think, if Kokkonen was so much better, it was Rindell who was in the national team in every EHT tournament and World Championships? Also straight from one of the national team coaches, "Rindell´s defensive play is a lot better than he gets credit"

Not saying he is ready defensively, quite far from that, but definitely not only offence player. A very underrated player in this forum.

All very interesting takes. I won't pretend to be an expert on any of our prospects, but I follow them as best I can. Unfortunately I don't have the time to watch every game of every prospect, and most of what I gather is from highlight packs and from what I read. Which is a lot. I think tracking our prospects is almost as fun as watching our f***ing joke of a franchise play hockey sometimes...

I have been impressed with Kokonnen in the times I have been able to watch him with Finland in the WJC as well as the Marlies. Seems to play a very simple game that I think will translate well to the NHL. He showed a bit more of his offensive side with the Marlies last season, which I'll be completely honest I was not sure he had. He'd always been stuck behind better offensive D-Men when playing for Finland in the WJC that took away opportunities he may have otherwise gotten. But he seemed to fill his role on that squad very well nonetheless.

Rindell on the other hand is a bit of a mystery for me. On paper there is no reason for us not to be excited about this kid. He put up a very strong season last year from a Pts production standpoint, but he never got the same level of love as his fellow draftee's Miettenen or Ovchinikov did for their 2020-21 season's. Was always kind of a weird to me why that was. I am not suggesting Rindell had a more impressive or even comparable season to the 2 names listed above, but Leafs twitter hardly ever mentioned Axel's name, whereas Ovchinikov and Miettenen were all over it. I will say, from the clips I have seen of Rindell he looked like a high skilled puckmoving D-men. Almost every clip I have seen showcased his skating abilites, whether that was in transition wheeling the puck, or his edge work walking the blue.

It's nice to see you sing his praises. He seems to be one of the harder players for me to track. Not a lot of content on him that I've found.

 

[Twine Tickler]

 

[LeafChief]

Robertson - Abramov - Steeves have at least 4 goals between them in the scrimmage this morning.

 

[Knies iT]

Robertson - Abramov - Steeves have at least 4 goals between them in the scrimmage this morning.

 

[zeke]

Nylander - Matthews - Kase
Robertson - Tavares - Marner

 

[fahad203]

Looking at those clips it seems like he's playing PP, is that a regular thing this season? Like has he just rocketed up their depth chart or is it more of chemistry/ line blender experiment

is he still a Leafs prospect?

Man that 2016 and 2017 draft picks were so off charts ....

 

[4thline]

is he still a Leafs prospect?

Man that 2016 and 2017 draft picks were so off charts ....

Yeah you hold Russian drafted rights until atleast FA age at 27.

 

[LeafChief]

Beaufitul goal.

Steeves ended up scoring 4.

Looking forward to see how some of these guys stack up against the other prospects at the Traverse City Tournament. It was only a few years ago we discovered Trevor Moore at this dev camp/tournament.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Is it just me, or is Robertson absolutely lighting this Dev camp up? I swear every time I look at my twitter he is on there with another highlight

 

[Twine Tickler]

Nylander - Matthews - Kase
Robertson - Tavares - Marner

hmmm

I don't hate it. Could be interesting

 

[Twine Tickler]

Guess it all depends on how much tread is still left with Kase

 

[uncleben]

Yeah you hold Russian drafted rights until atleast FA age at 27.

If they never sign after the draft, that actually extends beyond 27, indefinitely!

 

[Caser]

Looking at those clips it seems like he's playing PP, is that a regular thing this season? Like has he just rocketed up their depth chart or is it more of chemistry/ line blender experiment

It's hard to tell if it is regular after just 4 games played this season, but he is a pretty big guy, so kind of a logical choice for the net-front presence guy's role.

 

[4thline]

It's hard to tell if it is regular after just 4 games played this season, but he is a pretty big guy, so kind of a logical choice for the net-front presence guy's role.

Thanks, is he seeing top 6 time as well?

 

[Caser]

Thanks, is he seeing top 6 time as well?

Nope, playing on the 4th line so far.

 

[Morgs]

Kokkonen played almost every single shift behind first and second line and Rindell was regularly behind third and fourth



He was with the national team in Sweden and because of Covid stayed in quarantine after that for two weeks, meaning could only do outdoor training alone. After that it took several games to get back in normal level for actually every single player who was part of that national team

I feel like you ignored most of my post, which is fine. It seems silly to me to assume that a guy is better when he's playing against worse comp and has worse numbers. The easier your role, the better your numbers should be, and other than points his were far behind Kokkonen. There's also very little chance that Rindell wasn't playing with 1st and 2nd lines when he was 2nd in ATOI ice-time for defenseman on that team, even with the fact he was playing 1PP.

I'm aware, but if he's a NHL level prospect he should be doing *something* in Liiga at the age of 21 that's relatively spectacular. Liiga is a lot more watered down than it used to be, and he needs to essentially be dominating play or producing (which he wasn't able to do by the end of the season or whenever Kokkonen wasn't taking #1 minutes) to be a real NHL prospect. He's been relatively protected defensively, he plays 1PP minutes, and he still doesn't dominate play like he should. For example, Niemela has been a mixture top-4/top-6 guy the last two seasons and his numbers relative to his team BLOW Rindell (~2 years older) out of the water in a slightly easier role. The easier your role is the better your numbers need to be. As Rindell's role got harder, the worse his numbers got. As Niemela's and Kokkonen's got harder, they proved they could handle it, and excel.

This isn't to say I don't like Rindell; I had him as high as early 10's in our prospect pool at one point. It just seemed that whenever he was forced to carry the heavy load, he got destroyed. Even a bottom-pair defenseman at the NHL level needs to play far far better players than 1st line players in Liiga. If he can't prove he can handle that at 21, I'm not sure there is a real NHL future without some gaudy production or real development.

 

[Fogelhund]

Maple Leafs Might Have a Hidden Gem in Alex Steeves

At least six points, five goals, one assist in two games... it might not mean everything, but it's a good sign.

 

[Morgs]

Maple Leafs Might Have a Hidden Gem in Alex Steeves

At least six points, five goals, one assist in two games... it might not mean everything, but it's a good sign.

Yeah, guy had a huge season last year and it kind of went unnoticed because he wasn't a prospect for us then. Over PPG in the Big 10 (arguably the best division in college hockey) while not on a powerhouse school. Could really be something, but I've never watched him so I don't have much else to comment.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Maple Leafs Might Have a Hidden Gem in Alex Steeves

At least six points, five goals, one assist in two games... it might not mean everything, but it's a good sign.

Fairly sure everything in that article was said on here months ago.

 

[stickty111]

Artur with another good start stopping 26 of 28. He stopped all 5 shots in the shootout as well to win the game. Looks like he's back on track after a couple rough games to start.

 

[Fogelhund]

Kristen Shilton: Taking stock of five Toronto Maple Leafs prospects after rookie camp - TSN.ca

Robertson, Steeves, Abramov positives, SDA and Kral negatives.

There was a man among boys at camp, and that man was Steeves. The 21-year-old got off to a quiet start on the first day of drills, but by Saturday’s scrimmage, he was coming to life.
The centre is only listed as 5-foot-11 and 185 pounds, but Steeves had no trouble overpowering players off pucks or shoving opponents into corners. He also complemented that physical game with some impressive offensive work.
Steeves was a top-notch playmaker during Saturday’s scrimmage, getting on the rush and dishing out passes for his linemates. He also showed off good instincts around the net, displayed good puck movement and even buried a goal of his own off a few blistering shot attempts.
On Monday, Steeves picked up where he left off offensively. He scored once off an early second-period rush, and then, after keeping the play down low, Steeves sent a quick wrister into the net off a pass from Robertson. It often felt like Steeves was one step ahead of everyone else, able to anticipate and react fast enough to give his team an edge.
“To me, he looks like a pro player on the ice,” said Wickenheiser. “He’s a man, and the way he’s built his off-ice conditioning is quite far down the line and he’s continued to put in the work. He’s got a good shot and he’s very powerful.”

 

[Twine Tickler]

Maple Leafs Might Have a Hidden Gem in Alex Steeves

At least six points, five goals, one assist in two games... it might not mean everything, but it's a good sign.

Nice read.

"I was just really impressed with the attention to detail that the entire organization has taken towards development," Steeves said. "It's a holistic approach whether it be with the Leafs or the Marlies. They're just so invested in their players."

This is so encouraging to read shit like this. It is a big reason why I think Shanny and Kyle are the right people for this job. There is absolutely no reason why this kid would have felt Toronto was the organization that presented the easiest path to the NHL. But somehow they managed to make Alex feel like this was the best fit for his development. We've always had among the best resources in the league, but it really looks like we have shifted to a more personalized approach to getting each induvial player into the league. Same can be said with Keith Petruzelli. I recognize that the Leafs could have offered Petruzelli stupid money in an AHL contract, and how that could have been the main reason why he signed in TOR. But this is also a 22 year old kid who has NHL promise that willingly entered a system with a crowded AHL/ECHL goaltending depth chart. Albeit not overly talented. Nonetheless, Detroit would have been far and away a easier path to the NHL, as well as many other teams. Both him and Steeves felt this organization was the right fit for one reason or another. Same with Lehtonen, Barabanov, Micheyev, Kallgren, Semyonov, Gogolev etc... There is clearly an approach that Kyle and Shanny are taking with these prospective UFA's that is working far better than previous regimes. With a flat cap, and our cap construction, these free wallets on cheap deals are truly necessary. There is absolutely no guarantee that these guys will make it to the show ever. But KD has also shown a willingness to move the player if he does not see that opportunity within the Leafs. Lehtonen, Barabanov and Leivo being the most recent cases of this.

Who knows what will come of Steeves, Or any of the players I listed for that matter. But the more lines we have in the water like this, the better our chances of hitting one eventually. It is at no cost to our organization to acquire. Word spreads among players. Toronto has clearly emerged as a premier landing spot to develop. Nice to see

 

[Movement]

There's also very little chance that Rindell wasn't playing with 1st and 2nd lines when he was 2nd in ATOI ice-time for defenseman on that team

Of course he was, but most of the time he wasn´t and to say he played protected minutes it is very hard for me to believe you have really watched Jukurit games last season, because that just isn´t true. Especially in the home games they used Rindell´s pairing playing against the top lines

he should be doing *something* in Liiga at the age of 21 that's relatively spectacular

This is something we will see this coming season.

which he wasn't able to do by the end of the season or whenever Kokkonen wasn't taking #1 minutes

This is really something I don´t understand. As said they had more points average as a team without Kokkonen and lost every single game without Rindell

For example, Niemela has been a mixture top-4/top-6 guy the last two seasons and his numbers relative to his team BLOW Rindell (~2 years older) out

Once again hard to follow your thinking, I didn´t compare these two. But... 19-20 Niemelä had 43 games in a top team and scored 7 points, 20-21 15 games and 4 points, really don´t understand this blow out comment

As Rindell's role got harder, the worse his numbers got. As Niemela's and Kokkonen's got harder, they proved they could handle it, and excel.

And again how did his role get harder and his numbers worse? And the same question with Niemelä (with 15 games) and Kokkonen. As said when Rindell was with the national team Kokkonen had every time Rindell´s role in the pp and they lost every single game.

Also you didn´t answer how come Rindell was chosen to the national team for five different tournaments including WC and Kokkonen not if he was that much superior?

Once more I want to make clear that I do like Kokkonen as a prospect and this isn´t anything negative against him. I wrote the first message just to point out that people are sleeping with Rindell and that he is also one worth following and thought that because Kokkonen is a lot more known here the easiest way is to compare these two players. I said in the first message that I don´t know a pro in Finnish hockey who doesn´t keep Rindell as a better player and a prospect, which is true but was more of a comment to make people open their eyes. There for sure are those who think differently and I´m not going to say that I know for sure which one of these two is going to make the NHL or is either of them. We are still talking about young players and anything could happen.

 

[Morgs]

Of course he was, but most of the time he wasn´t and to say he played protected minutes it is very hard for me to believe you have really watched Jukurit games last season, because that just isn´t true. Especially in the home games they used Rindell´s pairing playing against the top lines

So what you're saying is Rindell not only played against teams top lines, but he also didn't play with his teams 1st and 2nd lines? Based on everything I've heard besides your post, Kokkonen played the matchup pairing. He also had more defensive zone starts (by a bunch).

This is something we will see this coming season.

Okay..... but your post is predicated based on the fact that it was last season? I'm very excited to see what he does with no Kokkonen to take on the tough matchups. There was a time last year (I think it was the WJC) when he was PPG~ and was dominating play. That obviously didn't last.

This is really something I don´t understand. As said they had more points average as a team without Kokkonen and lost every single game without Rindell

One player in hockey doesn't make a team good or bad besides basically McDavid. I feel like this is just a strawman argument to prove your point.

Once again hard to follow your thinking, I didn´t compare these two. But... 19-20 Niemelä had 43 games in a top team and scored 7 points, 20-21 15 games and 4 points, really don´t understand this blow out comment

And again how did his role get harder and his numbers worse? And the same question with Niemelä (with 15 games) and Kokkonen. As said when Rindell was with the national team Kokkonen had every time Rindell´s role in the pp and they lost every single game.

It was using another Leaf as an example. His relative to team shot attempts% blows Rindell's out of the water. When he's on the ice (in his easy minutes) he makes his team significantly better in regards to shot attempts going the right way. Kokkonen in his tougher minutes than Rindell does the same thing. Rindell SHOULD in theory if he's this stud you're talking about should make it so when he's on the ice his team is better than average. This isn't the case, especially more than what Kokkonen provides, and it's mostly due to his inability to play defense.

Also you didn´t answer how come Rindell was chosen to the national team for five different tournaments including WC and Kokkonen not if he was that much superior?

Because being chosen for a team doesn't make a player better. Was Kunitz one of the best 12 forwards for Canada or was he chosen because he was chosen.

Once more I want to make clear that I do like Kokkonen as a prospect and this isn´t anything negative against him. I wrote the first message just to point out that people are sleeping with Rindell and that he is also one worth following and thought that because Kokkonen is a lot more known here the easiest way is to compare these two players. I said in the first message that I don´t know a pro in Finnish hockey who doesn´t keep Rindell as a better player and a prospect, which is true but was more of a comment to make people open their eyes. There for sure are those who think differently and I´m not going to say that I know for sure which one of these two is going to make the NHL or is either of them. We are still talking about young players and anything could happen.

I think it's more than amazing that you believe there is more to come with Rindell. Like I said, I had him in the early teens when it came to Leaf prospects around the WJC, but he fell off the map to end the season. I just don't see how someone can honestly look at Kokkonen and Rindell and come away with Rindell being the superior prospect at this point. There's just virtually no logic to it imo.