Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

[Morgs]

EDIT:

 

[Kiwi]

Hyman still became a 3rd liner before despite little offense. He played a supporting role on a good line. No reason Hallander can't do the same.
There isn't anything to be concerned with Hallander. He is their best possession player and playing really well in a 1st line role. He'll be fine. Whats to be concerned about? I think your overracting a bit.

Hyman is an outlier who has some very specific complementarity skills that aren't easy to find in one package, guys like him aren't exactly thick on the ground

He's not scoring, if that isn't cause for concern in a forward prospect I don't know what would be

 

[stickty111]

Hyman is an outlier who has some very specific complementarity skills that aren't easy to find in one package, guys like him aren't exactly thick on the ground

He's not scoring, if that isn't cause for concern in a forward prospect I don't know what would be

Hallander has the same tools that Hyman does. Again I think your being too negative on him. The guy is driving play a great amount. The projection for Hallander was even if the offense doesn't translate, the guy should still be a 3rd liner and he is on track.

 

[Morgs]

Hyman is an outlier who has some very specific complementarity skills that aren't easy to find in one package, guys like him aren't exactly thick on the ground

He's not scoring, if that isn't cause for concern in a forward prospect I don't know what would be

Not scoring AND not dominating play. That or looking outmatched in a league he's an appropriate age for (aka why people were concerned about SDA in 2018-19). Hallander is not only dominating play, but he's arguably the best play driver on his team (forward or defense); a playoff team in either the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world.

But also, let's not pretend he's not scoring. He is scoring. He's just not putting up the amount of points to make him a surefire top-prospect. He's 96th in points for forwards which (like I said in the other thread) is 2nd line production.

This lack of production has really been overblown.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Not scoring AND not dominating play. That or looking outmatched in a league he's an appropriate age for (aka why people were concerned about SDA in 2018-19). Hallander is not only dominating play, but he's arguably the best play driver on his team (forward or defense); a playoff team in either the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world.

But also, let's not pretend he's not scoring. He is scoring. He's just not putting up the amount of points to make him a surefire top-prospect. He's 96th in points for forwards which (like I said in the other thread) is 2nd line production.

This lack of production has really been overblown.

The SHL only has 14 teams, so if he is 96th in points, it is more like 3rd line production by SHL standards.

It's not a big deal. He's coming over to the AHL next year and let's just hope it works out better for him. He's not going to be a center in the NHL, so let's just hope he can become a decent complimentary middle 6 winger or something like that.

 

[Morgs]

The SHL only has 14 teams, so if he is 96th in points, it is more like 3rd line production by SHL standards.

It's not a big deal. He's coming over to the AHL next year and let's just hope it works out better for him. He's not going to be a center in the NHL, so let's just hope he can become a decent complimentary middle 6 winger or something like that.

Math is my strong suit, ok. You should obviously know 42 + 42 = 96.

lol

 

[Knies iT]

Not scoring AND not dominating play. That or looking outmatched in a league he's an appropriate age for (aka why people were concerned about SDA in 2018-19). Hallander is not only dominating play, but he's arguably the best play driver on his team (forward or defense); a playoff team in either the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world.

But also, let's not pretend he's not scoring. He is scoring. He's just not putting up the amount of points to make him a surefire top-prospect. He's 96th in points for forwards which (like I said in the other thread) is 2nd line production.

This lack of production has really been overblown.

Its also been 15 games..

He's only slightly below his last season's PPG and he's never been an offensive dynamo to begin with. If it continues to stagnate by game 30-40, then it's worth worrying about. Undeniably a slow start production wise, but not overly worried yet given his play-driving numbers and the fact that when i've seen him play, the other elements of his game have stood out as impressive (D-zone commitment, transition play, compete level, etc.).

I think it's still fair to say he'll be a complementary middle six winger even if he tops out at .5PPG in the SHL, which is what his potential has been pegged at since the draft. Funny, I could see him being more productive in the AHL with his net front presence, similar to how Korshkov's goal/assist totals flipped once he joined the Marlies.

 

[MLSE]

A future third line of

Hirvonen-Hallinder Abramov would be pretty nice to have.

3 centers all capable playing together proving good offense and supporting the big 4 along with robertson+amirov

Well aren't you optimistic.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It would be worrying if Hallander was our top prospect and we needed him to drive offense at the NHL level, but there's nothing wrong if he ends up being a defensive specialist on the 3rd line. That would actually be a great outcome for the Leafs. We have enough prospects who project to be offensive contributors, let alone the young talent already in the NHL

 

[Morgs]

Its also been 15 games..

He's only slightly below his last season's PPG and he's never been an offensive dynamo to begin with. If it continues to stagnate by game 30-40, then it's worth worrying about. Undeniably a slow start production wise, but not overly worried yet given his play-driving numbers and the fact that when i've seen him play, the other elements of his game have stood out as impressive (D-zone commitment, transition play, compete level, etc.).

I think it's still fair to say he'll be a complementary middle six winger even if he tops out at .5PPG in the SHL, which is what his potential has been pegged at since the draft. Funny, I could see him being more productive in the AHL with his net front presence, similar to how Korshkov's goal/assist totals flipped once he joined the Marlies.

Like I said earlier when you first brought it up. I'm a little concerned about it too, but it's nothing to worry about it yet. Glad a bunch of us see that!

It's funny though, I was going over our top prospects yesterday and comparing them to my post-draft list, and I actually thought Hallander has improved his stock in my book this season (still my 6th ranked) .

I knew he was a good play driver, but I didn't realize the level he was actually at. I think it's silly people are coming in here looking at his production and just dismissing him. I've watched him play 4 (maybe 3) games this season, his play driving is fantastic, his defensive awareness is ++, and he's one of those players that does all the little things right. Even if the production never comes I truly think he's got the ability to be a Pierre Engvall-type (strong defensive impact, but two-way) player in the NHL, but I'd say his upside is much (much) higher.

EDIT: Man I just looked at Engvall's last (and only) season in the SHL (D+3). Not only did he lead his VERY good team in CF%, he had a +8.8 rel.CF%. The guy was destined to be a play driver at the NHL level. Hallander's numbers are similar in and is over a year younger than that season.

 

[stickty111]

https://thehockeywriters.com/2021-world-junior-championship-team-finland-preview/
So this one is interesting. Now I don't trust Hockey Writers, but they have Loponen making the team on the third pair.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Like I said earlier when you first brought it up. I'm a little concerned about it too, but it's nothing to worry about it yet. Glad a bunch of us see that!

It's funny though, I was going over our top prospects yesterday and comparing them to my post-draft list, and I actually thought Hallander has improved his stock in my book this season (still my 6th ranked) .

I knew he was a good play driver, but I didn't realize the level he was actually at. I think it's silly people are coming in here looking at his production and just dismissing him. I've watched him play 4 (maybe 3) games this season, his play driving is fantastic, his defensive awareness is ++, and he's one of those players that does all the little things right. Even if the production never comes I truly think he's got the ability to be a Pierre Engvall-type (strong defensive impact, but two-way) player in the NHL, but I'd say his upside is much (much) higher.

EDIT: Man I just looked at Engvall's last (and only) season in the SHL (D+3). Not only did he lead his VERY good team in CF%, he had a +8.8 rel.CF%. The guy was destined to be a play driver at the NHL level. Hallander's numbers are similar in and is over a year younger than that season.

Engvall was a better player than Kapanen this year, so that's a promising comparison. Also defensive specialists who lack offense are cheaper to sign than offensive specialists who suck defensively, even if their actual on ice value is the same

 

[Morgs]

https://thehockeywriters.com/2021-world-junior-championship-team-finland-preview/
So this one is interesting. Now I don't trust Hockey Writers, but they have Loponen making the team on the third pair.

Man if the Hockey Writers are correct (rarely are) that would be 5 Leafs on Finland, with 3 in definitely prominent roles. Not a single one of them a 1st round pick (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 7th).

 

[stickty111]

Man if the Hockey Writers are correct (rarely are) that would be 5 Leafs on Finland, with 3 in definitely prominent roles. Not a single one of them a 1st round pick (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 7th).

Pretty impressive. If Loponen is there, Leafs picks would form half of Finland's D core.

 

[LeafChief]

I know Hirvonen, Kokkonen and Niemala are essentially locks but is Miettinen expected to make the team as well? He hasn't played yet this year (playing first game tomorrow).

 

[Morgs]

Yes there are a million red flags, but it's a hell of a lot better than being compared to some scrub.

 

[Gabriel426]

Math is my strong suit, ok. You should obviously know 42 + 42 = 96.

lol

THis just reminds me of the Belak auditioning for Sundin’s wing clip.

 

[Morgs]

I know Hirvonen, Kokkonen and Niemala are essentially locks but is Miettinen expected to make the team as well? He hasn't played yet this year (playing first game tomorrow).

I don't know about expected, but I think he'll definitely get a second look. It's more of a hope than anything, there really hasn't been any news except projected teams by "experts"

Here's a fun video I saw today for some reason:

 

[Cor]

 

[Morgs]

Also, I think we all knew this was coming, but it's official (?):



5th line C Nick Robertson! (i know it's in alphabetical order)

 

[stickty111]

Hollowell isn't getting enough attention. I knew he was driving play but looking at it even more, this is even more impressive

He is PPG after 6 games.
CF%: 60.2
TOI: 22:08
Rel CF%(thanks @Morgs): +9.3%

This is not even the most impressive thing.
His OZ%: 44.7
That ranks 3rd lowest from d man on his team and 6th lowest overall in terms of players having played at least 6 games.

It's early, but the guy is destroying the competition. He looks like the Hollowell of Junior. If this is what we get with the Marlies from him, thats a game changer for the system.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Also, I think we all knew this was coming, but it's official (?):



5th line C Nick Robertson! (i know it's in alphabetical order)

It'll be interesting to see if he can work his way up that chart.

EDIT: I, on the other hand, did not catch on that it was alphabetical

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[stickty111]

View attachment 377757

Doesn't effect Abramov as he was going to miss a month anyways with the WJ. Affects Valleaueve(spelling?) though.
I think I will take a month off from the POW as well. With Niemela, Kokkonen, Abramov, Amirov, Hirvonen, Artur, Robertson going to WJ and now this news, it doesn't make sense to continue right now. Ovchinnkov would win every one as a result lol.

 

[Morgs]

Player Name	Age	Pos	League	GP	Points	PPG	NHLe	rel.CF%	Rel.FF%	ATOI	OZS%	oiSH%
Der-Arguchintsev, Semyon	20.22	C	KHL	10	5	0.50	25.297	-	-	14:04	-	-
Holmberg, Pontus	21.75	W	SHL	13	8	0.62	24.676	3.4%	4.9%	16:15	-	9.8%
Ovchinnikov, Dimitri	18.3	C/W	MHL	20	32	1.60	22.304	-	-	23:24	-	-
Rindell, Axel	20.62	RHD	Liiga	17	12	0.71	20.953	6.8%	-	20:07	48.8%	9.6%
Abramov, Mikhail	19.7	C	QMJHL	9	14	1.56	20.281	-	-	-	-	-
Kizimov, Semyon	20.88	W	VHL	11	9	0.82	18.047	-	-	15:35	-	-
Amirov, Rodion	19.18	W	KHL	23	8	0.35	17.598	-	-	13:56	-	-
Hallander, Filip	20.44	C/W	SHL	15	6	0.40	16.039	6.6%	4.0%	15:49	-	7.1%
Hirvonen, Roni	18.9	C/W	Liiga	20	9	0.45	13.358	-6.1%	-	15:40	49.7%	11.2%
Hollowell, Mac	22.19	RHD	Mestis	6	6	1.00	11.398	9.3%	-	22:08	44.7%	11.3%
Niemela, Topi	18.7	RHD	Liiga	9	3	0.33	9.8947	10.3%	-	14:18	63.2%	11.3%
Kral, Filip	21.13	LHD	CZE	10	3	0.30	9.7662	-4.3%	-	19:26	38.1%	-
Schingoethe, Wyatt	18.34	C	USHL	1	1	1.00	9.676	-	-	-	-	-
Kara, Vladislav	22.63	W	KHL	17	3	0.18	8.9284	-	-	12:59	-	-
Villeneuve, William	18.71	RHD	QMJHL	15	6	0.40	5.2152	-	-	-	-	-
Kokkonen, Mikko	19.88	LHD	Liiga	18	3	0.17	4.9473	7.2%	-	21:00	44.0%	7.6%
Koster, Mike	19.65	LHD	NCAA	4	1	0.25	4.7355	-	-	-	-	-
O'Connell, Ryan	21.62	LHD	NCAA	4	1	0.25	4.7355	-	-	-	-	-
Loponen, Kalle	19.73	RHD	Fin J20	22	16	0.73	4.3535	-	-	18:06	-	-
Miettinen, Veeti	19.21	W	NCAA	0	0	0.00	0	-	-	-	-	-
Miller, Joe	18.22	C/W	USHL	5	0	0.00	0	-	-	-	-	-
Rasanen, Eemeli	21.75	RHD	Liiga	12	0	0.00	0	-10.7%	-	15:16	43.2%	2.4%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I've changed the way I'm gonna update prospects each week (sorry @stickty111 haha). I've added a formula to keep up with their age, added their position, league, PPG, NHLe (taken from CJ Turtoro's NHL equivalency ratings). Gonna try and keep it up every sunday to see what the difference between each week, ranked by NHLe.