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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

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Prominence said:
The kinds of prospects who have been lent overseas tend to be those who haven’t played an nhl game yet. E.g. nils lundqvist, kravtsov. Sandin and liljegren have played more than 10 nhl games and they’re at the point where they have to play top level competition, which is not the shl/liiga/khl. They have nothing to learn in those leagues as the competition is slower or dumber. Teams are very selective in who they send overseas and choose only players who can benefit. This is why leafs only sent kral, sda, and rubins. I would consider ahl to be a higher quality league than shl/liiga and while the ahl level of competition is similar to khl, I have seen khl games and they are disorganized and very political. Sandin and lilegren in these leagues may develop bad habits and hinder their development from playing in these leagues.
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This is just silly, Liljegren/Sandin are currently good AHL players/borderline NHLers. In no way are they too good to play in the SHL/KHL/Liiga.

Those are high end professional hockey leagues not some local senior league.

Young players missing development time isnt good, but it's not an easy situation so I'm not gonna throw Dubas under the bus. They're unlikely to make the Leafs out of camp so if they dont get loaned somewhere, at minimum they're not playing hockey until February. You gotta think it's a very real possibility that the AHL further delays or completely cancels the season as well. Either way it's not a good situation for them.
 
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Kiwi said:
Hollowell is ropey defensively still, although I think he's improving and he's definitely worth preserving with for another season or two

Duszak is an absolute train wreck defensively, I wouldn't be surprised if we cut bait after this season if he doesn't substantially improve

If we want to bring Niemela over we can make room for him pretty easily, there's a few guys we need to make decisions on in the next season or two
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Hollowell has very good body positioning and stick skills for the one-on-one battles but I've seen him get physically overpowered by inferior talent nonetheless. It's not going to be easy for him.
 
Prominence said:
The kinds of prospects who have been lent overseas tend to be those who haven’t played an nhl game yet. E.g. nils lundqvist, kravtsov.
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Not exclusively. Guys with NHL experience like Hayton and Valimaki are heading overseas (and those two are playing in Liiga, a worse league than the AHL).

Prominence said:
Sandin and liljegren have played more than 10 nhl games and they’re at the point where they have to play top level competition, which is not the shl/liiga/khl. They have nothing to learn in those leagues as the competition is slower or dumber. Teams are very selective in who they send overseas and choose only players who can benefit. This is why leafs only sent kral, sda, and rubins. I would consider ahl to be a higher quality league than shl/liiga and while the ahl level of competition is similar to khl, I have seen khl games and they are disorganized and very political. Sandin and lilegren in these leagues may develop bad habits and hinder their development from playing in these leagues.
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I would disagree there. Liiga is certainly an inferior league compared to the AHL, but the SHL is in the same tier as the AHL, and the KHL is at least as good. And even if we assume the AHL is a tier above all three leagues (the majority of people would disagree there), surely playing professional hockey at some level is better than not playing at all?
 
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VanW27 said:
This is just silly, Liljegren/Sandin are currently good AHL players/borderline NHLers. In no way are they too good to play in the SHL/KHL/Liiga.

Those are high end professional hockey leagues not some local senior league.

Young players missing development time isnt good, but it's not an easy situation so I'm not gonna throw Dubas under the bus. They're unlikely to make the Leafs out of camp so if they dont get loaned somewhere, at minimum they're not playing hockey until February. You gotta think it's a very real possibility that the AHL further delays or completely cancels the season as well. Either way it's not a good situation for them.
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Finally, the voice of reason.
 
TheGoldenJet said:
Eichel is guaranteed an NHL roster spot. Sandin and Liljegren are likely starting in the minors, judging by the Leafs trades this offseason. Why wait until February only to play them in the AHL if similar level leagues have been running since September?
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I guess the Avalanche have given up on former 4th overall pick Bowen Byram.
 
VanW27 said:
This is just silly, Liljegren/Sandin are currently good AHL players/borderline NHLers. In no way are they too good to play in the SHL/KHL/Liiga.

Those are high end professional hockey leagues not some local senior league.

Young players missing development time isnt good, but it's not an easy situation so I'm not gonna throw Dubas under the bus. They're unlikely to make the Leafs out of camp so if they dont get loaned somewhere, at minimum they're not playing hockey until February. You gotta think it's a very real possibility that the AHL further delays or completely cancels the season as well. Either way it's not a good situation for them.
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Think of European hockey as skill development. Think of practise on North American ice as cerebral development.

Playing in a league with the time and space afforded by the large ice surface serves little for developing these two into NHL players at this point in time. Neither need major skill development to make that last step, it's all about experiencing the speed and close proximity of North American hockey. Hard scrimmages on North American ice surfaces against other professionals is better for them at this time. This especially applies to Liljegren who often seems to pause ever so slightly before making decisions on the ice. Liljegren needs lots of reps on this ice surface.

Great decision by Dubas.
 
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I was bored and decided to do a mock lineup of our prospects.

Amirov Abramov Korshkov
Robertson Hirvonen Abruzzese
Hallander SDA Miettinen
Holmberg Brooks Ovchinnikov

Sandin Liljegren
Kokkonen Niemela
Kral Hollowel
Koster Villeneuve

Woll
Scott
Ahktyamov
 
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justashadowof said:
Think of European hockey as skill development. Think of practise on North American ice as cerebral development.

Playing in a league with the time and space afforded by the large ice surface serves little for developing these two into NHL players at this point in time. Neither need major skill development to make that last step, it's all about experiencing the speed and close proximity of North American hockey. Hard scrimmages on North American ice surfaces against other professionals is better for them at this time. This especially applies to Liljegren who often seems to pause ever so slightly before making decisions on the ice. Liljegren needs lots of reps on this ice surface.

Great decision by Dubas.
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A truly awful take.

Also, wasn’t Sandin just practicing in Sweden?
 
TheGoldenJet said:
Please explain how Sandin has been ‘scrimmaging hard on North American ice’ from his home in Sweden. I’ll wait.
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I said Sandin is scrimmaging in North America right now? That comes as a great surprise to me because that certainly wasn't my intention. I thought it was clear I was referring to how the AHL players' time will be spent during 2020-21 with no official AHL schedule. I think sometimes I assume too much comprehension by the audience.
 
justashadowof said:
I said Sandin is scrimmaging in North America right now? That comes as a great surprise to me because that certainly wasn't my intention. I thought it was clear I was referring to how the AHL players' time will be spent during 2020-21 with no official AHL schedule. I think sometimes I assume too much comprehension by the audience.
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Don’t play coy. You stated Sandin/Liljegren are better served scrimmaging against pros in North America rather than playing in a European pro league like the SHL. The SHL season is almost 2 months old. To my knowledge, Sandin/Liljegren still haven’t started this “cerebral development” North American scrimmaging process you keep trying to push.

Just so were clear, you’re not arguing that 6 months of SHL action is inferior to 6 months of NA scrimmaging, what you’re now arguing is that 6 months of SHL action is inferior to ~3 months of working out at home followed by ~3 months of NA scrimmaging? And here I thought I was dealing with a bad take, rather than a disastrous take.
 
Fogelhund said:
Which ones have sent ALL of their prospects to play in Europe, or even ALL of their EURO born prospects and players?
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Would love to see a list and watch these guys still deny that Dubas didn't do anything wrong in this situation cause all they want to do is find negativity or criticisms. Dubas ain't perfect but this isn't something you can criticize him for. This is quite literally blind hate/negativity for no reason.
 
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