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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - The AHL is up and prospects are in play

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CantLoseWithMatthews said:
Getting a Gardiner level player from a 5th round pick would be incredibly fortunate
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Yeah
I’ve actually never seen anything about him other than on YouTube in the last couple of days
Like I said , figure skating ability and fast , just the way he was leading the rush looked a bit like Jake
 
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Saint Blue said:
Abramov started his Q season on a tear and showed glimpses of high-end ability at the WJC that started to separate him for me. However, his overall tournament was a bit underwhelming given the hype (suspension, scratches, misuse by coaches, etc.) and his production post-WJC in the Q is disappointing.
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I thought he was one of Russia's best forwards in the WJC personally. The scratches made zero sense. The Russian IHF has got to be one of the most corrupt, and non sensical sports organizations in the world. There was no reason to scratch Mikhail, but they pulled some ridiculous reasons out of thin air to validate why they did so. It clearly was a political decision. Most suspect it was because of his choice to go through the CHL route vs the Russian. He was the only forward outside of Podkolzin and Amirov that commanded any airtime for Russia IMO. Not to mention, he played a far lesser role than them. There were plays that he made that were very high level skill. He was also the most notable player on the ice against Canada in the semi's. A game where the Russians got shit pumped, he was the only guy on the team that showed any compete IMO. Scoring a goal that was later called back by an offside that had zero impact on the goal itself. I will not pretend to know his game in detail when it comes to Victoriaville, but I would actually say he rose in my rankings with his WJC. Although he was not a player I had much expectations for going into the tournament. I will say, his path to the show is going to be really hard with the leafs. We have an overabundance of skilled forwards on the current roster and system. He is pretty far down that list. Similar to Bracco, if he doesn't add a tool to his arsenal, he may get boxed out
 
Saint Blue said:
Agree with your ranking of Kral/Koster. I have no problem ranking those two aggressively high on the prospect list after their breakouts this year. Comfortably my favourite D prospects outside of Sandin/Liljegren/Niemela. I would rank Kral ahead due to having a bigger role against men in a pro league, but they're close due to Koster's IQ and skating, which IMO are standout enough to give him an eventual NHL career.

Niemela also rounds out the top 5 for me, which is a tier of its own. The arrangement of that grouping is debatable.

I think the Abramov/Abruzzese debate is interesting again. Abramov started his Q season on a tear and showed glimpses of high-end ability at the WJC that started to separate him for me. However, his overall tournament was a bit underwhelming given the hype (suspension, scratches, misuse by coaches, etc.) and his production post-WJC in the Q is disappointing.
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I have Abruzzese ahead right now just based on the praise I've heard from several interviews on his hockey IQ. I think he just might have the higher upside.

After watching Abramov at the WJC this year, I think he is an exciting player to watch but I think his ceiling is a slightly smarter version of Kapanen
 
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Maplebeasts said:
Jake Gardiner was a fantastic hockey player for a number of years. I would kill for another Gardiner.
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He would be fine in the role we can afford to give Koster, not the role that Gardiner was in when he played here.

Gardiner should have not been anything more than a sheltered offensive defenseman similar to Barrie. If we put Koster in that role and he can do well, then we have a real asset. However I think Koster could have higher defensive IQ than Gardiner ever did.
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
He would be fine in the role we can afford to give Koster, not the role that Gardiner was in when he played here.

Gardiner should have not been anything more than a sheltered offensive defenseman similar to Barrie. If we put Koster in that role and he can do well, then we have a real asset. However I think Koster could have higher defensive IQ than Gardiner ever did.
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the difference between Gardiner being a perpetual frustration and being a #1D here was literally him just removing the high risk plays when he was the last man on his own side of center. I guess that's what made him so frustrating, but man it was such a simple set of changes that he couldn't learn.
 
Randy Randerson said:
the difference between Gardiner being a perpetual frustration and being a #1D here was literally him just removing the high risk plays when he was the last man on his own side of center. I guess that's what made him so frustrating, but man it was such a simple set of changes that he couldn't learn.
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It wasn't even the high risk plays. I can live with the high risk plays if he is as smart about them as Rielly. It was the fact that he would take stupid risks which any high IQ defenseman would know not to take, and then had no concept of defending in his own end. That is something Rielly knows, and Gardiner never figured out. Now he is on the taxi squad in Carolina and for good reason, since he can't even put up the offense that makes him a passable player in the NHL these days.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
It wasn't even the high risk plays. I can live with the high risk plays if he is as smart about them as Rielly. It was the fact that he would take stupid risks which any high IQ defenseman would know not to take, and then had no concept of defending in his own end. That is something Rielly knows, and Gardiner never figured out. Now he is on the taxi squad in Carolina and for good reason, since he can't even put up the offense that makes him a passable player in the NHL these days.
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I think we're saying the same thing - high risk is fine as long as the reward is there, but he would make high risk plays like passing across the mouth of his own goal where the reward was getting the puck to a forward who still had to skate it out of his own zone through defenders. He would make high-risk, low-reward plays all the time. Like I had no issue with the stretch pass from in his own zone that makes a breakaway when it connects and an icing when it doesn't, it was the ones where the attempt failing left the opposition with a clean look at the net or an odd man rush that killed him.

He was actually a very good blue line defender though, and a better own-corner puck thief than Rielly is. Rielly is a bad example though, he's really not a good suppressor of offense.
 
stickty111 said:
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I'm really excited for Liljegren. I though last year, he was going to be given a long look with the big team, but that opportunity went to Holl. I'm not sure where he's going to fit into the lineup. Some people are saying that he'll be the third pairing next year. But who will he play with, Dermott or Sandin? I don't think they'd want two rookies on the 3 pair. I have this unfortunate feeling that he will be dealt before even given chance to prove himself.
 
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Bloomberg said:
I'm really excited for Liljegren. I though last year, he was going to be given a long look with the big team, but that opportunity went to Holl. I'm not sure where he's going to fit into the lineup. Some people are saying that he'll be the third pairing next year. But who will he play with, Dermott or Sandin? I don't think they'd want two rookies on the 3 pair. I have this unfortunate feeling that he will be dealt before even given chance to prove himself.
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I would be a bit concerned with a Sandin pairing too, his foot speed is very suspect so his partner needs to cover for him if the opposing team gets a stretch pass/intentional icing for a race/clean breakout where the D is a little flat footed. Liljegren has that speed but I think you want him to have time to adjust to the NHL game speed without having that responsibility in the back of his mind at all times. Dermott skates well and generally makes good decisions (with the last couple of games being an exception), so that might let Liljegren have more time to adjust and feel a little freer to go for a skate when the opportunity presents itself.
 
I wouldn't count on Sandin playing in the NHL next year. I think the Leafs treat him the same way they've treated Liljegren, especially since Sandin has now missed a significant amount of time due to Covid and injury. They will get either Dermott or a UFA to play on the bottom pairing next year, and then after that the Leafs could make a decision to move Muzzin (if Dermott shows he is capable of handling big minutes full time) or Dermott (if he does not) and put Sandin on the bottom pairing with whatever RD we may have for him.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
I wouldn't count on Sandin playing in the NHL next year. I think the Leafs treat him the same way they've treated Liljegren, especially since Sandin has now missed a significant amount of time due to Covid and injury. They will get either Dermott or a UFA to play on the bottom pairing next year, and then after that the Leafs could make a decision to move Muzzin (if Dermott shows he is capable of handling big minutes full time) or Dermott (if he does not) and put Sandin on the bottom pairing with whatever RD we may have for him.
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I’m not in agreement with this. The Leafs initially kept Sandin on the roster/taxi squad before he was sent down because they want him to get reps with Leafs in practice and get used to his teammates. They see him as the de facto bottom pair LD. He’s the Dermott replacement.
 
genk said:
I’m not in agreement with this. The Leafs initially kept Sandin on the roster/taxi squad before he was sent down because they want him to get reps with Leafs in practice and get used to his teammates. They see him as the de facto bottom pair LD. He’s the Dermott replacement.
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Agreed. Sandin I think will be called up and replace Dermott down the stretch and into the playoffs.
 
genk said:
I’m not in agreement with this. The Leafs initially kept Sandin on the roster/taxi squad before he was sent down because they want him to get reps with Leafs in practice and get used to his teammates. They see him as the de facto bottom pair LD. He’s the Dermott replacement.
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They sent Sandin to the Marlies as soon as the Marlies started playing, just like they did with Liljegren. They preferred he be on the taxi squad than in nowhere land, but that doesn't mean he is going to be in the NHL next year.
 
mapleleaf979 said:
Agreed. Sandin I think will be called up and replace Dermott down the stretch and into the playoffs.
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Considering Sandin is nowhere near ready to return to playing and the Leafs like how Dermott is playing right now, I find that very unlikely.
 
This "should" be how things go next year, but I don't know if they will.

First pairing
Muzzin Lilj
Sandin Bogo/other similar vet/physical guy

But, I'm not sure how I feel about two rookies in the D lineup.. with a full season, I suppose you can give them time to adjust, but it's going to be time for them to step up next year for sure. I think they will both excel.
 
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Fogelhund said:
This "should" be how things go next year, but I don't know if they will.

First pairing
Muzzin Lilj
Sandin Bogo/other similar vet/physical guy

But, I'm not sure how I feel about two rookies in the D lineup.. with a full season, I suppose you can give them time to adjust, but it's going to be time for them to step up next year for sure. I think they will both excel.
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They will both have had a good amount of pro experience, esp Lilligren, so hopefully the growing pains won't be extreme
 
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