Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2023-23 Season Edition

[stickty111]

From the Sarnia board yesterday

Voit is one of the funnest players we have ever had. What a treat it is to see him play. His edge work & vision might be unmatched in the entire league right now. He took some big bumps tonight & it didn't deter him at all. He could get almost anybody 20 goals with his passing ability. Get a proper sniper with him & Burke (who's been excellent) & it could be magic

Thats some praise

 

[Peasy]

Thats Voit at 16. Hes only gotten way better since then.

 

[stickty111]

 

[Roadhog]

That opening goal by GR was an absolute bullet with pinpoint accuracy, not many can stop that. Fergy looks solid.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That opening goal by GR was an absolute bullet with pinpoint accuracy, not many can stop that. Fergy looks solid.

His positioning is a mess. Overcommitted way too much going to his right and was beat on his glove way too easily as a result.

 

[aingefan]

Who’s watching the Marlies today?
How’s Holmberg looking? Is Kokkonen hurt?

 

[stickty111]

Marlies lose 5-2
Anderson 2 goals
Hollowell 2 assists
Abruzzese and Steeves assist

 

[Roadhog]

I can see how Gogolev/Douglas/Johnstone make for a good 4th line, but they were pretty much invisible today.

 

[andora]

Minten PP goal
Good low shot get it through

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[andora]

Show off

 

[stickty111]

Lisowsky with a goal and assist

 

[Leaf Rocket]

William villeneuve reminds me of what Stuart Percy would’ve been if he wasn’t injured

 

[Twine Tickler]

What a weekend for the prospects. I swear every time I opened up my twitter I saw another tweet talking about what one of our prospects had done.

Voit is on an absolute tear this season. Once again dominating the primary points department. It would be really cool to see him keep this up for the rest of the year. it would be a huge feather in the cap of our scouting department. As most people who frequent this section of our board know, drafting and developing has been an area of strength in the Dubas era, so it is nice to see this continual progression of players down the pipe as others graduate to the NHL (ie. Robertson).

Kyle has been the center point of a lot of criticism pretty much since he took over and it's only intensified in the recent years. It is players like Voit, Tverberg, Knies, Robertson, Holmberg, Niemela, Minton, Moldenhauer....etc that really give me faith in Kyle. It's a level of drafting that we've not even remotely come close to in my lifetime. That is the key contributor to sustainable success. Sure it is never nice to see a guy like Hyman walk in UFA, but if he can be replaced by a undervalued Michael Bunting and an up and coming Robertson, that is the hard moves we need to make.

Drafting + Developing is a lagging indicator. Often times it takes about 4-5 years to see any sort of benefits from this channel. No matter what happens to Kyle at the end of this season, I really think his drafting will have a positive effect for years and years to come. Lots of upside

 

[Duke16]

If Ty Voit actually pulls off a 2 PPG season in the OHL, he's fully immersed in NHL company. Players get close, but rarely actually pull it off - pretty much just the super high-end guys do it as +1's and then many very good +2's get close but don't actually do it.

Players who have actually went 2PPG (any age) recently:
Marco Rossi in 19-20
Alex DeBrincat in 16-17
Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak in 15-16
McDavid, Marner in 14-15

Some current NHLers' with high D+2 production:
C. Brown 1.88 (13-14)
M. Domi 1.79 (14-15)
K. Labanc 1.95 (15-16)
C. Dvorak 2.05 (15-16)
J. Kyrou 1.95 (17-18)
J. Robertson 1.89 (18-19)
M. Frost 1.88 (18-19)
N. Suzuki 1.59 (18-19)

Voit also doesn't even play with NHL prospects like Dvorak so clearly he did.

He might literally have the most productive D+2 OHL season in modern history.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Yeah as has been mentioned, the thing about Voit is he's not playing with amazing talent. Just casually checking out comments from Sarnia fans, they want the team to trade for a top sniper to play with him. He's definitely the one carrying that offense, which makes his production that much more impressive.

His statistical profile actually reminds me a lot of Brayden Point. Very different players overall, I'm not making the comparison for the NHL level. But that was another guy that was absolutely carrying his junior team offense without a ton of help and had an absurd primary point ratio.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Went to Marlies games live this past weekend for 1st time in almost 3 years .. Steeves and MAC have potential .. after that not much there .. Steeves has speed to burn .. MAC really smart puck mover

 

[Twine Tickler]

If Ty Voit actually pulls off a 2 PPG season in the OHL, he's fully immersed in NHL company. Players get close, but rarely actually pull it off - pretty much just the super high-end guys do it as +1's and then many very good +2's get close but don't actually do it.

Players who have actually went 2PPG (any age) recently:
Marco Rossi in 19-20
Alex DeBrincat in 16-17
Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak in 15-16
McDavid, Marner in 14-15

Some current NHLers' with high D+2 production:
C. Brown 1.88 (13-14)
M. Domi 1.79 (14-15)
K. Labanc 1.95 (15-16)
C. Dvorak 2.05 (15-16)
J. Kyrou 1.95 (17-18)
J. Robertson 1.89 (18-19)
M. Frost 1.88 (18-19)
N. Suzuki 1.59 (18-19)

Voit also doesn't even play with NHL prospects like Dvorak so clearly he did.

He might literally have the most productive D+2 OHL season in modern history.

It's still very early into the season. Although massively impressive, this is not out of the realm of a typical hot streak at this point. Not to be the rain on the parade day, I just don't think we can reasonably think he can achieve 2pts/game throughout the entire season.

I know you likely weren't suggesting he would, I just think it's important that we temper our expectations a bit.

I do have some concerns about his size. Usually I am the last person to say that as well. I will take skill over size any day of the week. But I do believe there is reason for concern. HockeyDB has him listed at 5'09 151 lbs. How accurate that is I have no clue. All I know is he looks very small. I don't know if it's because he is wearing what looks to be smaller shoulder pads, or maybe his Plecanec like turtle neck makes him look skinny as shit, but the jersey literally swallows him lol.

Undersized players find ways to adapt to bigger competition all the time. I assume Voit will do the same in time. But he has looked intimidated when playing against more fully developed players at say Leafs rookie camp or development camp. That said, you see the flashes of high end play making. Further, if we look at Robertson as an example, he was a player who really struggled physically at the pro level his first 2 years. Constantly picking himself off the ice, and losing 1v1 battles. Now he looks a lot stronger, and it is an aspect of his game that doesn't hold him back nearly as much as it once did. SO there is reason to believe a guy like Ty can do the same.

I always liked the upside of this pick. Had steal written all over it right from the get go. Very interested to see how he continues to develop

 

[andora]

It's still very early into the season. Although massively impressive, this is not out of the realm of a typical hot streak at this point. Not to be the rain on the parade day, I just don't think we can reasonably think he can achieve 2pts/game throughout the entire season.

I know you likely weren't suggesting he would, I just think it's important that we temper our expectations a bit.

I do have some concerns about his size. Usually I am the last person to say that as well. I will take skill over size any day of the week. But I do believe there is reason for concern. HockeyDB has him listed at 5'09 151 lbs. How accurate that is I have no clue. All I know is he looks very small. I don't know if it's because he is wearing what looks to be smaller shoulder pads, or maybe his Plecanec like turtle neck makes him look skinny as shit, but the jersey literally swallows him lol.

Undersized players find ways to adapt to bigger competition all the time. I assume Voit will do the same in time. But he has looked intimidated when playing against more fully developed players at say Leafs rookie camp or development camp. That said, you see the flashes of high end play making. Further, if we look at Robertson as an example, he was a player who really struggled physically at the pro level his first 2 years. Constantly picking himself off the ice, and losing 1v1 battles. Now he looks a lot stronger, and it is an aspect of his game that doesn't hold him back nearly as much as it once did. SO there is reason to believe a guy like Ty can do the same.

I always liked the upside of this pick. Had steal written all over it right from the get go. Very interested to see how he continues to develop

So basically you are being cautiously optimistic.. or reasonable

 

[Fogelhund]

We have a lot of prospects doing very well. It's exciting, and it's fun to see. We will never have enough spots for these guys, and some won't transition anyway. It's a numbers game, enough guys doing well, someone is eventually going to come in and contribute in a positive way. Others won't, and that's ok, I mean really who cares, it's just the way it goes?

You don't know if a guy like Voit will make it, you just enjoy what's in front of you now.

 

[Twine Tickler]

So basically you are being cautiously optimistic.. or reasonable

Yes, I think cautiously optimistic is the best way to describe it. I love the upside of the player. From all the years I have watched the game and played the game the one thing I've realized is you cannot teach vision and IQ. People either have it or they don't. Ty seems to have it, which is great.

Typically if you're smart enough to see the game the way guys like Ty do, you will also be smart enough to adapt your game to allow you to succeed at the next level. Similar to Abruzzese. Highly intelligent player, but he will need some time to figure out what he can and cannot do at the pro level. I anticipate that same learning curve for Ty going forward.

We all know what skill with no adaptability looks like...

circled is a very similar pts. production over 17 more games in what I believe was his D+2 season as well.

I am optimistic with Ty, no doubt. He really cannot do much more to impress then what he is currently doing. Absolutely reason to celebrate, but we have to remain grounded in what to expect IMO

 

[Fogelhund]

Yes, I think cautiously optimistic is the best way to describe it. I love the upside of the player. From all the years I have watched the game and played the game the one thing I've realized is you cannot teach vision and IQ. People either have it or they don't. Ty seems to have it, which is great.

Typically if you're smart enough to see the game the way guys like Ty do, you will also be smart enough to adapt your game to allow you to succeed at the next level. Similar to Abruzzese. Highly intelligent player, but he will need some time to figure out what he can and cannot do at the pro level. I anticipate that same learning curve for Ty going forward.

We all know what skill with no adaptability looks like...
View attachment 598238

circled is a very similar pts. production over 17 more games in what I believe was his D+2 season as well.

I am optimistic with Ty, no doubt. He really cannot do much more to impress then what he is currently doing. Absolutely reason to celebrate, but we have to remain grounded in what to expect IMO

Bracco might not be the best example though. Him not translating, didn't have much to do with his hockey abilities.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Bracco might not be the best example though. Him not translating, didn't have much to do with his hockey abilities.

Exactly. I don't think that will be the case for Ty either. My point was, if Ty's skill doesn't translate to the pro level the way it is in junior, will he adapt his game to play a role that is more projectable to the NHL.

Bracco, in his own mind, was a top 6 NHL'er. He refused to adapt his game to fill the vacancies on the NHL squads he was a part of. He was never cracking our top-6, nor was he cracking Carolina's. As you mentioned, it is a numbers game a lot of the times. Will Ty be able to adapt his game to fill a void that we need? Time will tell.

Another player who had tremendous skill, High end play making, with Junior and AHL production who just failed to find another aspect to his game to allow him to stick in the NHL was Nic Petan.

As much as I am thrilled with Ty's production, this is just the reality for a lot of undersized players. When you look at Robertson for context, his desire to make the NHL lead him into this hyper focused training regimen that allowed him to overcome his flaws at the pro level. His game has gotten to a point where he provides value on lines 1-4. Can Ty do the same. That is what I want to see in the future from him. Because the skill and IQ is undeniable.

As for now, I am absolutely going to celebrate his hot start. It's amazing to see. I just will do so with my long term expectations not being heightened if that makes any sense

 

[Fogelhund]

Exactly. I don't think that will be the case for Ty either. My point was, if Ty's skill doesn't translate to the pro level the way it is in junior, will he adapt his game to play a role that is more projectable to the NHL.

Bracco, in his own mind, was a top 6 NHL'er. He refused to adapt his game to fill the vacancies on the NHL squads he was a part of. He was never cracking our top-6, nor was he cracking Carolina's. As you mentioned, it is a numbers game a lot of the times. Will Ty be able to adapt his game to fill a void that we need? Time will tell.

Another player who had tremendous skill, High end play making, with Junior and AHL production who just failed to find another aspect to his game to allow him to stick in the NHL was Nic Petan.

As much as I am thrilled with Ty's production, this is just the reality for a lot of undersized players. When you look at Robertson for context, his desire to make the NHL lead him into this hyper focused training regimen that allowed him to overcome his flaws at the pro level. His game has gotten to a point where he provides value on lines 1-4. Can Ty do the same. That is what I want to see in the future from him. Because the skill and IQ is undeniable.

As for now, I am absolutely going to celebrate his hot start. It's amazing to see. I just will do so with my long term expectations not being heightened if that makes any sense

Bracco's decline was due to the noise around the hazing, and forced cocaine usage of rookie Rangers, that came out at the exact same time he had to take leave from the Marlies for "personal reasons", which you might put the two together and draw some conclusions. I think between the two, he got blacklisted in NA.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Does Voit have a shot at the upcoming USA WJC team?

Also guessing Minten and Moldenhauer (and I guess Lisowski for that matter) are long shots, though they would all have a chance in 2024.