Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[supermann_98]

I don't know who I had this argument with haha, it might have been you, but to me, size has to do with the weight and height of someone, not just height.

For example, Byfuglien was huge (but not overly tall), and I don't consider Domi small just because he is 5'9.

Regardless, I agree, I think he was listed in the 130s/140s (could be slightly more), so anything he is doing, he is doing likely on pure skill without much of a physical advantage, so it'll be interesting to see him fill out more.

Byfuglien was 6'5, that's pretty damn tall

 

[notbias]

Byfuglien was 6'5, that's pretty damn tall

But he was considered very large because of weight.

Use Domi as an example if you want, is he one of the smallest in the league because he is 5'9?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838219310277501333

Siegel with observations on Cowan during camp. Still some time left to impress but it might be another year before the Cowboy era really kicks off.

The earliest (and I mean earliest) returns suggest he may not be there yet, which isn’t exactly surprising given that Cowan only turned 19 four months ago.

During the first couple days of camp, for instance, Cowan often found himself going head to head with Chris Tanev in drills, the kind of defensive monster he never encountered in junior. Tanev mostly had his way with Cowan, who tried and tried but could not wind his way around or through the new Leafs defenceman.

As Leafs management looked on during an intrasquad scrimmage over the weekend, mind you, Cowan looked just a tad behind the pace. When the puck found his tape, he struggled to make a play before opponents swallowed all his time and space. He was frequently overmatched physically, another non-surprise for a teenager who’s only 5-11 and 185 pounds. Cade Webber, who, to be fair, is a giant at 6-foot-7 and 212 pounds but also not an NHL defenceman, had no trouble pushing Cowan off the puck at one point in the scrimmage.

 

[stickty111]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838219310277501333

Siegel with observations on Cowan during camp. Still some time left to impress but it might be another year before the Cowboy era really kicks off.

Nothing wrong with more time

 

[Stringer Bell]

I really don't want to lose Holmberg and/or Robertson to keep Jarnkrok and Kampf. I don't know if that is a stupid feeling if both can't clearly win jobs over the latter two, but it's just how I feel.

 

[ULF_55]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838219310277501333

Siegel with observations on Cowan during camp. Still some time left to impress but it might be another year before the Cowboy era really kicks off.

It is early, and he did make some plays in the game, but he's competing for a position on a nearly full line-up of older players.

 

[genk]

Sending Cowan down would be a huge mistake. If the knock against him is his inexperience against seasoned vets, then how it would it possibly help his development by delaying this exposure for a year?

I despise the trope that more time in junior / minors is fine because it helps the player marinate. No. Good players only get better when they’re practicing and playing with better players.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If the Leafs could figure out the cap and squeeze Cowan in so that he’s with the team practicing, training, and occasionally (or frequently) playing that’d be the sweet spot for him. Right now the only knock against him is a lack of strength and lack of familiarity with full grown men in the NHL. Going back to Junior for a season would solve the former, but not the latter.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the Leafs could figure out the cap and squeeze Cowan in so that he’s with the team practicing, training, and occasionally (or frequently) playing that’d be the sweet spot for him. Right now the only knock against him is a lack of strength and lack of familiarity with full grown men in the NHL. Going back to Junior for a season would solve the former, but not the latter.

While ideally he'd be in the AHL, I don't see how it's a negative to go back to Junior. He won't be any worse. You can always improve and get stronger.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

While ideally he'd be in the AHL, I don't see how it's a negative to go back to Junior. He won't be any worse. You can always improve and get stronger.

Yeah that's my thoughts too. It's not like it'd be a tragedy if Cowan went back to London. It'd disappoint him but the Leafs are in win now mode and there's a slew of guys ahead of him with more experience and size. As long as he, the Leafs, and London can formulate a plan for him to get away from those "junior habits" he should be fine. Next year when he's grown and put on more muscle he'll have a better shot.

One pre-season game isn't the end all be all but based on what's been observed at practices and last night's display from Pacioretty and Grebenkin the odds seem more likely than not that he's destined for the O.

 

[mydnyte]

I think Grebenkin makes the team.

If he does though not sure there is room for Pacioretty, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson etc. Might have to make a trade or 2.

I'm not sure he makes the team unless we move a few bodies, but, he really gave me the Danny Markov vibe in his first camp with his swagger

 

[aingefan]

Yeah that's my thoughts too. It's not like it'd be a tragedy if Cowan went back to London. It'd disappoint him but the Leafs are in win now mode and there's a slew of guys ahead of him with more experience and size. As long as he, the Leafs, and London can formulate a plan for him to get away from those "junior habits" he should be fine. Next year when he's grown and put on more muscle he'll have a better shot.

One pre-season game isn't the end all be all but based on what's been observed at practices and last night's display from Pacioretty and Grebenkin the odds seem more likely than not that he's destined for the O.

A full year playing C wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Sypher04]

While ideally he'd be in the AHL, I don't see how it's a negative to go back to Junior. He won't be any worse. You can always improve and get stronger.

I tend to disagree.
He’s doesn't really have anything to work on learning with London.
He’s clearly better than most there and needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way this year.
He was one of the leagues best point producers, he won both the regular season and playoff MVPs, he had a 34 game point streak, and was effective both offensively and defensively.

I mean he may end up back there because our options are limited but it’s a clear disservice to his development imo.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I tend to disagree.
He’s doesn't really have anything to work on learning with London.
He’s clearly better than most there and needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way this year.
He was one of the leagues best point producers, he won both the regular season and playoff MVPs, he had a 34 game point streak, and was effective both offensively and defensively.

I mean he may end up back there because our options are limited but it’s a clear disservice to his development imo.

Imo main issue is if the priority is getting him bigger stronger and faster, that’s a lot of burnt calories and missed gym time playing and recovering from, what, 80+ games between London, WJC, and presumably another deep playoff run? If there was a college or b tier Euro pro league option at ~40 games on the year against bigger players it would make more sense.

 

[VanW27]

Imo main issue is if the priority is getting him bigger stronger and faster, that’s a lot of burnt calories and missed gym time playing and recovering from, what, 80+ games between London, WJC, and presumably another deep playoff run? If there was a college or b tier Euro pro league option at ~40 games on the year against bigger players it would make more sense.

An option that makes some sense is you slow play the 9 games, then release him for the World Junior camp and then make a final decision on him (London or NHL) after the WJC.

 

[SprDaVE]

I tend to disagree.
He’s doesn't really have anything to work on learning with London.
He’s clearly better than most there and needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way this year.
He was one of the leagues best point producers, he won both the regular season and playoff MVPs, he had a 34 game point streak, and was effective both offensively and defensively.

I mean he may end up back there because our options are limited but it’s a clear disservice to his development imo.

He can go back to win a gold medal at the WJCs. He can work on his strength and overall game. He's not a perfect player and many ways he can improve even playing in Junior. He had a great season and he could have an even better one. It won't hurt him to play another Junior season, he's only 19... the majority of players do it.

Leafs could Shane Wright him but seems rather crappy to me. Unfortunately the Leafs decided to not make any trades this off-season so they will have to send Cowan down unless they plan on waiving some expensive players.

 

[ULF_55]

He can go back to win a gold medal at the WJCs. He can work on his strength and overall game. He's not a perfect player and many ways he can improve even playing in Junior. He had a great season and he could have an even better one. It won't hurt him to play another Junior season, he's only 19... the majority of players do it.

Leafs could Shane Wright him but seems rather crappy to me. Unfortunately the Leafs decided to not make any trades this off-season so they will have to send Cowan down unless they plan on waiving some expensive players.

I'm not sure there is a bad option?

He can learn in all levels, but only concern about returning to junior is if he cheats and doesn't evolve and brings reinforced junior tricks that don't work in the pros.

Not sure I care either way, as eventually he'll be with the Leafs.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm not sure there is a bad option?

He can learn in all levels, but only concern about returning to junior is if he cheats and doesn't evolve and brings reinforced junior tricks that don't work in the pros.

Not sure I care either way, as eventually he'll be with the Leafs.

We'll see how he fares the rest of camp. Maybe they make a move or two and keep some younger options but there isn't much cap space to keep a deep roster. I'd be surprised.

 

[supermann_98]

A full year playing C wouldn’t hurt.

This. All this talk about him having nothing to learn going back to the Knights I say this, playing full time C would be a challenge and I think he could do it, not to mention the added benefit of having another legit top 3 center option for the leafs in the future.

If he can win faceoffs, kills penalties, and drives his own line his potential value moving forward is much higher imo

 

[RoadWarrior]

Sending Cowan down would be a huge mistake. If the knock against him is his inexperience against seasoned vets, then how it would it possibly help his development by delaying this exposure for a year?

I despise the trope that more time in junior / minors is fine because it helps the player marinate. No. Good players only get better when they’re practicing and playing with better players.

I think it’s more of an issue with finding a roster spot now that Robertson and Patches are on the team. There may simply not be room for Cowan unless he breaks out offensively.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838219310277501333

Siegel with observations on Cowan during camp. Still some time left to impress but it might be another year before the Cowboy era really kicks off.

Cowen isn't ready, but he's clearly too good for junior. It's pretty shitty that the current agreement limits junior players from getting a look in the AHL.

At the very least, each team should get 1 exception and allow a junior kid to develop in the AHL if he's outgrown junior.

 

[ACC1224]

Cowan can go back, dominate the O, lead Canada at the WJHC and if needed come back to the Leafs in the New year.

 

[Sypher04]

Cowan is a RW and has been his entire OHL career, not sure why anyone thinks he’d be going back to play center.

Weight and strength are areas he can work on training sure, but I stand by that sending him back to junior, even if it’s really our only option, is basically putting his development on pause for a season. I’m a firm believer he needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way and I don’t believe that will happen at the OHL level.

 

[The Iceman]

I tend to disagree.
He’s doesn't really have anything to work on learning with London.
He’s clearly better than most there and needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way this year.
He was one of the leagues best point producers, he won both the regular season and playoff MVPs, he had a 34 game point streak, and was effective both offensively and defensively.

I mean he may end up back there because our options are limited but it’s a clear disservice to his development imo.

I am not sure I can reference a player that had their development hurt by going back for another year junior. The rock star Red Wing teams were famous for leaving their players to over ripen.

Cowan still looks like he has a boy body against NHL players. Another year of getting stronger will benefit him greatly.

 

[notbias]

Cowan is a RW and has been his entire OHL career, not sure why anyone thinks he’d be going back to play center.

Weight and strength are areas he can work on training sure, but I stand by that sending him back to junior, even if it’s really our only option, is basically putting his development on pause for a season. I’m a firm believer he needs to be challenged to develop in a meaningful way and I don’t believe that will happen at the OHL level.

Didn't he spend some time playing C last year?