Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[cbcwpg]

Why do you think we should could and should get top dollar for a guy who has mailed it in most games this year? After getting scouting reports on his play this season, I wouldn't be surprised if ScheifMe is on most GM's No Trade For list.

I honestly believe that the large majority of the NHL's GMs just care about point production and would sign a convicted axe murder if they could put 50 goals in the net.

Regardless of any negatives Chef has, he is a point a game guy. Those aren't super plentiful . They will all believe they can straighten his game out and it's the Jets that are doing something wrong. And if they believe this, all the better.

 

[cbcwpg]

The biggest question about Chef is....

Why? Why did this happen?

 

[snowkiddin]

I honestly believe that the large majority of the NHL's GMs just care about point production and would sign a convicted axe murder if they could put 50 goals in the net.

Regardless of any negatives Chef has, he is a point a game guy. Those aren't super plentiful . They will all believe they can straighten his game out and it's the Jets that are doing something wrong. And if they believe this, all the better.

I’m sure that’s against the CBA

 

[Adam da bomb]

I’m assuming Dobson would be an untouchable for the Isles.

I think our best return in the Scheifele deal will be possibly a 1-for-1 type trade for a guy looking for a change of scenery like Barzal.

Like in the Laine trade, we traded the better player but got a still good player like Dubois who fits our window and fills a hole.

Scheifele trade could be similar. We trade the better player (Scheifele) but get someone who fits the new core better/fills a hole in the new core.

How is Laine the better player?

 

[snowkiddin]

How is Laine the better player?

He's more of a game-breaker, has a higher PPG, a much, much better goalscorer and I thought his defensive deficiencies were very overblown around here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with PLD too and he brings elements to the table that Laine didn't and that we sorely needed (physicality, for one, and he's good on the boards, plus, he's better than Laine defensively although fairly mediocre there overall). He plays a more important position and fills a hole that we desperately needed to cover (2C). Laine was a luxury with Connor/Ehlers/Wheeler on the wings already and I'm sure his next contract won't be pretty. Laine was also pretty inconsistent which was a huge detriment because when he wasn't playing well he was pretty much useless.

 

[10Ducky10]

I don't want to trade him this summer but if we are dealing with the Isles, Barzal has to be the player coming back.

 

[WaveRaven]

55 is tough to replace. It would require a few moves I'd think. No need to rush. New staff and see how it goes.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He's more of a game-breaker, has a higher PPG, a much, much better goalscorer and I thought his defensive deficiencies were very overblown around here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with PLD too and he brings elements to the table that Laine didn't and that we sorely needed (physicality, for one, and he's good on the boards, plus, he's better than Laine defensively although fairly mediocre there overall). He plays a more important position and fills a hole that we desperately needed to cover (2C). Laine was a luxury with Connor/Ehlers/Wheeler on the wings already and I'm sure his next contract won't be pretty. Laine was also pretty inconsistent which was a huge detriment because when he wasn't playing well he was pretty much useless.

Laine is a better goal scorer. I think PLD a better driver and defensive player.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think we'd have to add a bit, but I wouldn't be opposed. This would mean that Perfetti would need to play C (or we find another 2C somewhere), and we'd likey still need to trade another D man as we'd still be in the same position of soon to be too many LHD and not enough spots.



There does seem to be some potential fits with the Isles.

1. Barzal 1 for 1
2. Scheif and a 1st for Nelson and Dobson (Not sure on this one as from the Isles perspective I would think they'd want something else besides the 1st. Because if they are trading for Scheifele, they are looking to win now, so I would think they'd want all "now" pieces coming back).

3. What about something around Scheifele and either Schmidt/Dillon for Dobson and Raty?

We'd be able to keep our first and also move out a D contract that we need to move. Perfetti still likely needs to play 2C next year, but Raty could be an NHL'r pretty soon himself.

I think some people here are starting to undersell Scheifele. The only reason we make that Philly trade as is, is because that 1st from Philly should be very high. It would have to be unprotected or only top 2 protected. Considering that I might agree to a small add, but the trade is basically complete as stated.

Barzal 1 for 1, we would need some assurance of getting him extended. He is only under contract for 1 more year and then RFA with ard AND an 8.4 mil QO.

I wouldn't want to include a 1st with Scheif for Nelson and Dobson. I think it might be a tad too much and I agree that it might not suit NYI. I would prefer to add Schmidt but Isles wouldn't. I would offer Dillon or Stanley, maybe even both if necessary.

Your Raty suggestion is interesting. I think Isles need to send us more cap hit than that though. That is why I have looked at Pulock as the RHD for them to move. I think, given the choice, they would opt to keep Dobson just for contract reasons.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Because its Winnipeg not Toronto. You risk being shut out by a team if you do that. You have to play nice if you want access

There has to be a limit to that though. The media needs access but the Jets need the media too. The media helps build interest and sell tickets. Definitely a finer line here than in TO.

 

[Huffer]

I think some people here are starting to undersell Scheifele. The only reason we make that Philly trade as is, is because that 1st from Philly should be very high. It would have to be unprotected or only top 2 protected. Considering that I might agree to a small add, but the trade is basically complete as stated.

Barzal 1 for 1, we would need some assurance of getting him extended. He is only under contract for 1 more year and then RFA with ard AND an 8.4 mil QO.

I wouldn't want to include a 1st with Scheif for Nelson and Dobson. I think it might be a tad too much and I agree that it might not suit NYI. I would prefer to add Schmidt but Isles wouldn't. I would offer Dillon or Stanley, maybe even both if necessary.

Your Raty suggestion is interesting. I think Isles need to send us more cap hit than that though. That is why I have looked at Pulock as the RHD for them to move. I think, given the choice, they would opt to keep Dobson just for contract reasons.

I think the Isles would like to keep Dobson, but more because I think that his ceiling is higher than Pulock's and he's younger.
From a contract perspective though, he's going to get paid this summer, so it likely won't be much less than what Pulock is getting (especially if he goes long term).

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The biggest question about Chef is....

Why? Why did this happen?

Is this really a difficult question? We all watched the de-development of his two way game under Maurice. And there was no observable attempt by the coach to halt that de-development.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Maybe. Also possible Chevy thinks the same way and we end up with a swap of under-performing players that just need "a change of scenery".

My guess is there won't be a Scheif trade because our asking price will be too high. But if it does happen, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the prevailing mood here will range from disappointment to anger.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll return to basking in the sunshine of my dark cloud.

Our ask being too high would be an acceptable reason for him not being traded - unless our ask is in Draisaitl territory.

There might be anger and disappointment out there, but I don't think there would be here. Not unless the return was shitty and I really don't see that happening. Again, he is a ppg 1C plus we have a good assortment of desirable lesser pieces to fill out value in a big deal.

 

[snowkiddin]

Laine is a better goal scorer. I think PLD a better driver and defensive player.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think it's a significant gap either way.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

More PP time? That’s your solution? Can you explain that to me?

He’s been used as an all purpose center, especially under Maurice. Down by 3, down by 1, tied, up by 1 or up by 3
, up against the other team’s best, IT‘S SCHEIFELE (and Wheeler) TIME!!!! Playing him for 22min+ constantly. To me a lot of that time has been unjustified.

How about scale back some of his time? How about when you need to lock it down you throw out a little more Lowry/Copp? How about when you are down a goal and you need the puck in the offensive zone you use an Ehlers line a little more. I think we are seeing a little more evening out of time between Scheifele and Dubois which I think has been helping Scheifele.

Scheifele is better than 99% of the players in his salary range and you want to kick him in the ass to make him better on another team? So let’s sell low so another team can get the best out of him….huh? I really dont understand any of your logic in this.

That was sarcastic. How do you give him more PP time when he is already getting almost all of it?

You think he is overworked? You want to fix his attitude by giving him more rest?

I don't want to sell low. That's the logic. What's not to understand?

 

[cbcwpg]

Right now , at this time...

This is the first time someone other than Scheifele was leading the forwards in TOI/GP since 2016-17 in a single season

Connor 21:52
Scheifele 21:19
Wheeler 19:50

Since the 2011 season out of 83 players ( forwards ) Scheifele is #1 in TOI/GP at 19:56

 

[Romang67]

Right now , at this time...

This is the first time someone other than Scheifele was leading the forwards in TOI/GP since 2016-17 in a single season

Connor 21:52
Scheifele 21:19
Wheeler 19:50

Since the 2011 season out of 83 players ( forwards ) Scheifele is #1 in TOI/GP at 19:56

It's also worth noting that the only reason Scheifele isn't leading the forwards in TOI/GP is because Connor is a mainstay on the PK this season. Nothing has happened with Scheifele's ice time.

 

[kanadalainen]

I don't want to trade him this summer but if we are dealing with the Isles, Barzal has to be the player coming back.

Would love to see Barzal... that would be a lottery win almost. Especially with some term.

 

[DRW204]

Ken Wiebe in hustler sports talk Wpg show saying he believes jets will look into moving scheifele this off season.

Has anyone of our media heads ever attached their name to that move?

 

[cbcwpg]

Ken Wiebe in hustler sports talk Wpg show saying he believes jets will look into moving scheifele this off season.

Has anyone of our media heads ever attached their name to that move?

He's also saying if Scheifele doesn't say something to Chevy to convince him otherwise. Will there be accountability from the player?

 

[cbcwpg]

This is why I'm asking what's wrong. Is Scheifele playing like this because he wants out? Is there something off the ice in his life that is a distraction to his game? Is his agent telling him to concentrate on points? Is he hurt somehow? Is he mad at the organization? Is he mad at someone on the team? Take your pick out of a 100 reasons.

I sure hope it's not because he wants a trade, because that would be super disappointing, and go against the type of player Scheifele tried to pass himself off as. Even Evander Kane who asked for a trade every season, never mailed it in.

 

[surixon]

This is why I'm asking what's wrong. Is Scheifele playing like this because he wants out? Is there something off the ice in his life that is a distraction to his game? Is his agent telling him to concentrate on points? Is he hurt somehow? Is he mad at the organization? Is he mad at someone on the team? Take your pick out of a 100 reasons.

I sure hope it's not because he wants a trade, because that would be super disappointing, and go against the type of player Scheifele tried to pass himself off as. Even Evander Kane who asked for a trade every season, never mailed it in.

This is what the org has to try to figure out as it will play a big role in what they do with him. I would hope they have already been trying to determine what the issues or issue is.

For a player who's number 1 calling card after the draft and through the first 5-6 years of his development/career was his drive and work ethic, for him to mail it in as he has doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But who knows maybe there is stuff going on behind the scenes that is causing it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The biggest question about Chef is....

Why? Why did this happen?

There have been plenty of answers speculated. I believe it is likely a combination of several of them, to varying degrees.

I think Maurice was at best an enabler when his attitude turned South. I'm sure Maurice must have noticed. I expect he thought it best to let Scheif work through whatever was putting him off. That didn't happen and Maurice didn't decide to intervene at an appropriate time and in an appropriate manner. At worst, Maurice was a part of the cause rather than just failing to be part of the cure.

 

[surixon]

He's also saying if Scheifele doesn't say something to Chevy to convince him otherwise. Will there be accountability from the player?

Interesting, I guess it comes down to whether he wants to stay or not. If so, what assurances will he give management at the end of the year. Oh to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

 

[TS Quint]

That was sarcastic. How do you give him more PP time when he is already getting almost all of it?

You think he is overworked? You want to fix his attitude by giving him more rest?

I don't want to sell low. That's the logic. What's not to understand?

Oh I see you are not someone to be taken seriously. I’m probably going to regret continuing from here…


I think I explained it pretty clearly but maybe you aren’t being serious again. But sure, you can reduce his TOI if you think he needs to be held accountable. That’s not going to be taken as getting a rest. Seems like that should be obvious.

It’s not about being overworked. It’s about taking him out of situations where he doesn’t excel. It’s one thing jamming him into every situation when our 2C was Cody Fn Eakin but when you have PLD line and a Lowry line with different strengths than Scheifele. Situations can be divided up where Scheifele doesn’t have to be put in predicaments he doesn’t excel.

You don’t think he’s playing well but want to trade him like he is playing well? Is this you not being serious again?