Recalled/Assigned: Marco Kasper - Emergency Recall

[Winger98]

It is truly astounding how aggressively mid the Sabres are. They got just as much assistance in fast-forwarding a rebuild as you could ever hope for…. And they still don’t make the playoffs.

Give Detroit two 1s, a trade of injured 1C for a guy who ends up playing like said 1C and a trade for a castoff who becomes a 40g, 80p C and they’re not ten points out of the playoffs.

drafted in the top10 for ten straight years, top2 picks in four of those years. They also more aggressively tanked more than we ever did. That year they drafted Eichel they actively traded away players who were playing well for them to try to get McDavid. Their tanking was so blatant and pathetic.

 

[DatsDeking]

All I'm saying is Berg-Kasper-Tank is a nice 3rd line. Might even be a 2B line.

Totally. The problem is just we’re short one two-dimensional top 9 player. With that third line we have a 2nd line of Copp/Ras-Compher-Kane? Not terrible but the LW leaves something to be desired. The good news is that line has two defensively responsible players on it but then you’re wasting a Patrick Kane line on potential defensive assignments/matchups.

Not saying we need a Mark Stone or top tier winger but it puts the lines a bit out of wack. Still likely better than what we got. Maybe opens Copp or Compher up for a bit more offense too.

 

[Gniwder]

drafted in the top10 for ten straight years, top2 picks in four of those years. They also more aggressively tanked more than we ever did. That year they drafted Eichel they actively traded away players who were playing well for them to try to get McDavid. Their tanking was so blatant and pathetic.

It's bad karma to be mocking the only team that is worse than the Wings. The Wings have the second longest active playoff drought, and tied for 5th all time now. The Wings are HISTORICALLY BAD. We can make excuses about the lottery, but that doesn't change the facts.

All I'm saying is Berg-Kasper-Tank is a nice 3rd line. Might even be a 2B line.

I'm beginning to think Burger/Kasper/Kane. Burger played well, and Kasper can make up for Kane's defensive deficiencies.

I said it in the GDT, I think Kasper's gonna stay on the team because this team sucks worse than Stevie expected, and now he's gonna have to play his best players to try to make the playoffs.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Totally. The problem is just we’re short one two-dimensional top 9 player. With that third line we have a 2nd line of Copp/Ras-Compher-Kane? Not terrible but the LW leaves something to be desired. The good news is that line has two defensively responsible players on it but then you’re wasting a Patrick Kane line on potential defensive assignments/matchups.

Not saying we need a Mark Stone or top tier winger but it puts the lines a bit out of wack. Still likely better than what we got. Maybe opens Copp or Compher up for a bit more offense too.

I know exactly what you mean. I mocked up

Ras-Lark-Ray
Cat-JT-Kane
Berg-Marco-Tank
Fish-Copp-JV
Motte plugs in anywhere on that 4th line

But obviously Ras on the top line leaves a lot to be desired, unless he somehow magically develops a 2002 Todd Bertuzzi game.

 

[Winger98]

It's bad karma to be mocking the only team that is worse than the Wings. The Wings have the second longest active playoff drought, and tied for 5th all time now. The Wings are HISTORICALLY BAD. We can make excuses about the lottery, but that doesn't change the facts.

I really didn't consider it mocking. It is a statement of fact that Buffalo had those picks, and we didn't. But I think we have a good shot at still winning several of those drafts we picked in the top10.

 

[Gniwder]

I really didn't consider it mocking. It is a statement of fact that Buffalo had those picks, and we didn't. But I think we have a good shot at still winning several of those drafts we picked in the top10.

Semantics aside, it's bad karma to be bad mouthing them anyways. All we can do is hope Kasper learns how to score goals, Nate puts it together in GR, Cossa become Vezina level goalie, ASP lives up to his potential, and one (or more) of the picks outside of the first round actually hits big. Maybe Plante, Buch, or Becher (he's my sleeper pick). I'd really hate to see another rebuild on top of this rebuild. It's already historically bad. Then again, the Tigers and Lions were also historically bad until recently.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

drafted in the top10 for ten straight years, top2 picks in four of those years. They also more aggressively tanked more than we ever did. That year they drafted Eichel they actively traded away players who were playing well for them to try to get McDavid. Their tanking was so blatant and pathetic.

It's kind of insane they're not better at this point. I keep thinking it has to click some season.

2021 1st overall pick Owen Power
2018 1st overall pick Rasmus Dahlin
2015 2nd overal Jack Eichel (after tanking as hard as they could as you mentioned)
2014 2nd overall Sam Reinhart

As I've said before, the Wings haven't had a 1st OA pick since Joe Murphy in '86, a 2nd overall since friggin Marcel Dionne in '71, and 3rd overall since Keith Primeau in 1990.

Gee, I wonder why it's taking so long to turn the team around?

 

[DatsDeking]

I know exactly what you mean. I mocked up

Ras-Lark-Ray
Cat-JT-Kane
Berg-Marco-Tank
Fish-Copp-JV
Motte plugs in anywhere on that 4th line

But obviously Ras on the top line leaves a lot to be desired, unless he somehow magically develops a 2002 Todd Bertuzzi game.

Moving Cat off the top line helps a lot since Raymond and Larkin play a more rounded game than Cat. I like those lines.

I’m still holding out hope that Ras can turn into an offensive weapon because of his size but it’s just a hope.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

It's bad karma to be mocking the only team that is worse than the Wings. The Wings have the second longest active playoff drought, and tied for 5th all time now. The Wings are HISTORICALLY BAD. We can make excuses about the lottery, but that doesn't change the facts.



I'm beginning to think Burger/Kasper/Kane. Burger played well, and Kasper can make up for Kane's defensive deficiencies.

I said it in the GDT, I think Kasper's gonna stay on the team because this team sucks worse than Stevie expected, and now he's gonna have to play his best players to try to make the playoffs.

What?

There is nothing bad karma about saying how it’s mind blowing that a team who got all of the rebuilding luck you could ever want is stuck in limbo.

Buffalo has gotten all the pub of “they’re young and super talented. And they’ve had their lotto picks be really good players. And yet, by bad coaching decisions and riding mediocre goaltending while simultaneously trading away the types of players that the Wings are bringing in (Copp, Compher, Chiarot, etc) leaving a roster with a lot of talent but not a lot of will to win or hatred of losing.

And yeah, the Wings were screwed deep into the ground from 2013-2018 and they reached rock bottom in 2019-20.

They have to play well enough to make it this year… but it is just insane how people are so willing to discount how bad Holland let things get (while not getting any luck) and how the Red Wings simply didn’t survive two terrible stretches when Larkin went down last year and it cost them a playoff spot by a tie break.

The Wings are on an upward trajectory, no matter how much you hate the team. There is nothing historically bad about this roster anymore. 2019-20? Yeah, that roster was historically bad. Now? They’re a middle of the road NHL team that has a bunch of kids in GR on the verge of coming up

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Semantics aside, it's bad karma to be bad mouthing them anyways. All we can do is hope Kasper learns how to score goals, Nate puts it together in GR, Cossa become Vezina level goalie, ASP lives up to his potential, and one (or more) of the picks outside of the first round actually hits big. Maybe Plante, Buch, or Becher (he's my sleeper pick). I'd really hate to see another rebuild on top of this rebuild. It's already historically bad. Then again, the Tigers and Lions were also historically bad until recently.

No, it’s not. The thing is Buffalo has hit on those lottery picks.

Power, Dahlin, Eichel->Tuch, Thompson?

Those are all really really good players. They’ve had a hell of a lot of good young material come through and they aren’t supporting them or developing them.

It’s not mocking them. It’s saying that, how the f*** are you not great because you’ve had all the lottery luck and you’ve hit on so many of those lottery picks.

 

[newfy]

Maybe I've been involved in too many bar fights, but dragging someone into a fight pretty much means line brawl in hockey.

It's not my reading skills, it's your usage of words. If it's not clear to people then it's obviously NOT OBVIOUS. You could have just said "that's not what I meant", instead you gotta be a dick. I will be more than happy to reciprocate.

What's Raz gonna do when he gets riled up anyways? Throw on some more angry face? Yeah, that'll help the team out. We just need some more angry face to win games.

Yeah its probably way too many bar fights and not the fact that you cant wait to get in here and find a way to talk more shit about Kasper.

Drag into THE fight is a fairly common saying, and clearly different than dragging into A fight.

 

[Winger98]

Semantics aside, it's bad karma to be bad mouthing them anyways. All we can do is hope Kasper learns how to score goals, Nate puts it together in GR, Cossa become Vezina level goalie, ASP lives up to his potential, and one (or more) of the picks outside of the first round actually hits big. Maybe Plante, Buch, or Becher (he's my sleeper pick). I'd really hate to see another rebuild on top of this rebuild. It's already historically bad. Then again, the Tigers and Lions were also historically bad until recently.

bah, karma. I don't think it's wrong to look at other teams and say what you think they've done wrong or right. They've went through multiple head coaches, multiple GMs, haven't hesitated to promote kids to the NHL. I see a lot of things on their resume that people have lately been calling for here and...where has it gotten buffalo? They've been worse longer and, for my money, aren't looking better now or going forward.

And needing to hit on picks like that is true of nearly every rebuild, and there is a big degree of luck involved that people don't want to admit to. Personally, I think we remove a bit of that luck bit by seasoning the kids more in the minors, and then bringing them into a team with vets in place to shoulder a bit of that initial load. We'll see over the next couple of years as they filter prospects into Detroit and they sink or swim. Personally, I think a lot of these guys are going to do well and folks need to lean into just enjoying this part of the rebuild.

 

[newfy]

Get rid of Motte, move Copp to the wing, keep Kasper in the exact spot he was in the line up last game.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I know exactly what you mean. I mocked up

Ras-Lark-Ray
Cat-JT-Kane
Berg-Marco-Tank
Fish-Copp-JV
Motte plugs in anywhere on that 4th line

But obviously Ras on the top line leaves a lot to be desired, unless he somehow magically develops a 2002 Todd Bertuzzi game.

Call me crazy but I'm curious to see how JV would do as a mucker on a skill line. He was the best player on that Fish-Copp-JV line last night by a mile.

Ras was solid defensively but was a step or two behind Burgers and Kasper in the offensive zone. He seemed out of place. Reunite him with Copp and Fish. They were solid together.

 

[stillwater]

Yeah Motte has shown nothing at all thus far. Not a great PK guy, not a fearless shot blocker ... just nothing.

He is from Michigan, so there's that.

And yes, JV has played well.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think there’s a middle ground between Buffalo and Detroit lol. Buffalo brings up kids way too early - I’m not saying to do that either. I’m not saying all of Mazur, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, ASP, MBN, Buchelnikov, Lombardi should be in the team this year. That’s what Buffalo has done and that obviously doesn’t work.

But also 0 rookies isn’t good either.

 

[Gniwder]

No, it’s not. The thing is Buffalo has hit on those lottery picks.

Power, Dahlin, Eichel->Tuch, Thompson?

Those are all really really good players. They’ve had a hell of a lot of good young material come through and they aren’t supporting them or developing them.

It’s not mocking them. It’s saying that, how the f*** are you not great because you’ve had all the lottery luck and you’ve hit on so many of those lottery picks.

Same reason why the Wings missed the playoffs last season, terrible goaltending combined with porous defense. The Wings are emulating a lot of their failures, but I have high hopes for Cossa and Gus.

Yeah its probably way too many bar fights and not the fact that you cant wait to get in here and find a way to talk more shit about Kasper.

Drag into THE fight is a fairly common saying, and clearly different than dragging into A fight.

Criticizing a prospect isn't the same as shitting on him. You're just shooting the messenger. It's not my fault he can't shoot or fight. Now he's gonna have to learn both in the NHL. I don't think he's getting sent back down.

 

[Gniwder]

bah, karma. I don't think it's wrong to look at other teams and say what you think they've done wrong or right. They've went through multiple head coaches, multiple GMs, haven't hesitated to promote kids to the NHL. I see a lot of things on their resume that people have lately been calling for here and...where has it gotten buffalo? They've been worse longer and, for my money, aren't looking better now or going forward.

And needing to hit on picks like that is true of nearly every rebuild, and there is a big degree of luck involved that people don't want to admit to. Personally, I think we remove a bit of that luck bit by seasoning the kids more in the minors, and then bringing them into a team with vets in place to shoulder a bit of that initial load. We'll see over the next couple of years as they filter prospects into Detroit and they sink or swim. Personally, I think a lot of these guys are going to do well and folks need to lean into just enjoying this part of the rebuild.

Funny that you said that in this thread, lol.

I think there’s a middle ground between Buffalo and Detroit lol. Buffalo brings up kids way too early - I’m not saying to do that either. I’m not saying all of Mazur, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, ASP, MBN, Buchelnikov, Lombardi should be in the team this year. That’s what Buffalo has done and that obviously doesn’t work.

But also 0 rookies isn’t good either.

Stevie's holding kids back, but by a season or less. I don't see a big issue with that in terms of development. That's not gonna ruin anyone's career.

The team might of made the playoffs if Ed was promoted earlier, who knows.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

The non-playoff streak is not even close to the worst historical period even for just the Wings let alone the entire league. They're a much better team now than at any time in the Dead Wings era, including the Bobby Kromm team that made the playoffs after a seven-year drought only because just three teams in their Conference didn't, and one of them was the Cleveland Barons. From the 1966-67 season through the 1982-83 season, 17 years during which the league added expansion and WHA teams, the Wings made the playoffs just twice and the only series they won was a best-of-3 wth Atlanta. Since the Wings moved to the EC, making the playoffs has been harder than at any time in league history. They're now a mediocre team at a time when there has never been so many mediocre teams, fans of all of them having the same arguments with different names as the negative posters here who think they are suffering cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[Gniwder]

The non-playoff streak is not even close to the worst historical period even for just the Wings let alone the entire league. They're a much better team now than at any time in the Dead Wings era, including the Bobby Kromm team that made the playoffs after a seven-year drought only because just three teams in their Conference didn't, and one of them was the Cleveland Barons. From the 1966-67 season through the 1982-83 season, 17 years during which the league added expansion and WHA teams, the Wings made the playoffs just twice and the only series they won was a best-of-3 wth Atlanta. Since the Wings moved to the EC, making the playoffs has been harder than at any time in league history. They're now a mediocre team at a time when there has never been so many mediocre teams, fans of all of them having the same arguments with different names as the negative posters here who think they are suffering cruel and unusual punishment.

Expansion and salary cap changed the nature of the game, but this is a historically bad team for the salary cap era. Only the aforementioned Sabres are worse. The Yotes will improve under new ownership. Bettman even changed the lottery rules because the Wings got screwed so bad.

This is why the tank crowd wanted to tank longer until the Wings picked a generational talent. In hindsight, they would have needed to tank 3 more seasons to get Bedard. I think Stevie would have lost the fan base if he did that. Now we're mired in mediocrity.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Expansion and salary cap changed the nature of the game, but this is a historically bad team for the salary cap era. Only the aforementioned Sabres are worse. The Yotes will improve under new ownership. Bettman even changed the lottery rules because the Wings got screwed so bad.

This is why the tank crowd wanted to tank longer until the Wings picked a generational talent. In hindsight, they would have needed to tank 3 more seasons to get Bedard. I think Stevie would have lost the fan base if he did that. Now we're mired in mediocrity.

Then let's make clear we're talking "recent history" as opposed to "history" the next time we make historical comparisons., Sure, Cap history has been bad, but it was also very good for a while. Winning a Cup during the Cap era has to count for something. The team is one year and five games into mediocrity. That's not being mired in it, not with as much prospect depth as the Wings have. There are obvious paths forward.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Expansion and salary cap changed the nature of the game, but this is a historically bad team for the salary cap era. Only the aforementioned Sabres are worse. The Yotes will improve under new ownership. Bettman even changed the lottery rules because the Wings got screwed so bad.

This is why the tank crowd wanted to tank longer until the Wings picked a generational talent. In hindsight, they would have needed to tank 3 more seasons to get Bedard. I think Stevie would have lost the fan base if he did that. Now we're mired in mediocrity.

but it’s not.

They were historically bad in 19-20. They were regular run of the mill bad from 15-16 until that season. That’s when Kronner retired and the wheels just fully fell all the way off.

Nobody can argue that. That was one of the worst rosters I’ve ever seen in my life.

But no, since Yzerman has come, they have stabilized and turned it around and it would be a shock if they missed the playoffs this year. They also have a stocked up farm system that actually has a prayer and a cap structure that is set up for longevity.

Like the Wings have been mediocre for the last decade with a couple of years when the wheels really fell off. I mean, I guess that could be historically bad?

 

[Lampedampe]

but it’s not.

They were historically bad in 19-20. They were regular run of the mill bad from 15-16 until that season. That’s when Kronner retired and the wheels just fully fell all the way off.

Nobody can argue that. That was one of the worst rosters I’ve ever seen in my life.

But no, since Yzerman has come, they have stabilized and turned it around and it would be a shock if they missed the playoffs this year. They also have a stocked up farm system that actually has a prayer and a cap structure that is set up for longevity.

Like the Wings have been mediocre for the last decade with a couple of years when the wheels really fell off. I mean, I guess that could be historically bad?

Not exactly sure if this is what Gniwder is reffering to, but at 8 seasons this current Detroit Red Wings team, is in one of the longest all time post-season appearances droughts. Let's not kid ourselves here.

While i largely attribute this to Holland, it's still fair to start holding Yzerman atleast somewhat accountable.

Yzerman is moving the team in the right direction IMO, but i fear that the team might still be 2 seasons out of being a play-off team. The reason i think this is because the team relied on several UFA-vet signings to come close last year, and with more rookies making the team. The team may initially struggle as these rookies learn the ropes in the big league.

Eventually we'll become a play-off team, i don't see it any other way. By then Larkin probbaly is past his prime, and i'm unsure if it's truly a Stanley Cup contending team. Which sucks after struggling for so long, and yes i'm fully aware that some of it comes down to luck.

 

[jkutswings]

Not exactly sure if this is what Gniwder is reffering to, but at 8 seasons this current Detroit Red Wings team, is in the one of the longest all time post-season appearances droughts. Let's not kid ourselves here.

While i largely attribute this to Holland, it's still fair to start holding Yzerman atleast somewhat accountable.

Yzerman is moving the team in the right direction IMO, but i fear that the team might still be 2 seasons out of being a play-off team. The reason i think this is because the team relied on several UFA-vet signings to come close last year, and with more rookies making the team. The team may initially struggle as these rookies learn the ropes in the big league.

Eventually we'll become a play-off team, i don't see it any other way. By then Larkin probbaly is past his prime, and i'm unsure if it's truly a Stanley Cup contending team. Which sucks after struggling for so long, and yes i'm fully aware that some of it comes down to luck.

I don't understand the metric, from the standpoint that whether the current rebuild ends up as a success or a failure has nothing to do with how long the playoff drought goes.

For example, had Yzerman traded for Malkin last season and the Wings squeaked into the playoffs with Geno's help... Since the drought is over, everything is roses now?

Hell no. For a rebuild to really matter, it needs two things:
* Several good young players playing a significant role in the success of the team
* Continued growth (internal and external) once a team hits playoff status, to be able to truly contend for a championship

I want to get back in the playoffs ASAP. But regardless of whether that's this season or not for another year or two, whether Yzerman is a success or failure as a GM in this town will be based on what their top half dozen prospects become and the degree to which he pulls the right strings to supplement that talent for postseason success.

Is it frustrating that they haven't reached that next milestone yet? Yes. But it's not indicative of whether the rebuild will succeed or fail.

 

[Lampedampe]

I don't understand the metric, from the standpoint that whether the current rebuild ends up as a success or a failure has nothing to do with how long the playoff drought goes.

For example, had Yzerman traded for Malkin last season and the Wings squeaked into the playoffs with Geno's help... Since the drought is over, everything is roses now?

Hell no. For a rebuild to really matter, it needs two things:
* Several good young players playing a significant role in the success of the team
* Continued growth (internal and external) once a team hits playoff status, to be able to truly contend for a championship

I want to get back in the playoffs ASAP. But regardless of whether that's this season or not for another year or two, whether Yzerman is a success or failure as a GM in this town will be based on what their top half dozen prospects become and the degree to which he pulls the right strings to supplement that talent for postseason success.

Is it frustrating that they haven't reached that next milestone yet? Yes. But it's not indicative of whether the rebuild will succeed or fail.

I don't necessarily disagree.

For me, the length of the drought along with the fact that i don't see a Stanley Cup contender materializing before my eyes, is starting to take it's toll. Now this is ofcourse subjective, and if you feel like you see a future Stanley Cup contender i understand why you feel different.

I've mentioned it before, but i will a 100% blame Yzerman for the state of the defense. The vets that he's signed, for quite some money aswell, are just not doing it. We haven't had a OK defense since Kronwall and even then we complained, you have to go back to Lidström to find a good defense. After 5 years i would have expected us not to only being able to depend on Seider.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that i'm seeing cracks... Hope i'm wrong, and i'm not totally a doomer yet.