Player Discussion Marc Staal: Part II

[NYR Viper]

Let's say that Lindgren CAN replace Staal in the next 6 months.

What do you do with that Staal Contract? Ask him to retire after he gets his signing bonus? Try to get him on LTIR? 50% retention trade?

Marc Staal Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Buyout Details

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATE	BASE SALARY REMAINING	S.BONUS REMAINING	YEARS REMAINING	BUYOUT LENGTH	AGE	BUYOUT RATIO	TOTAL COST	TOTAL SAVINGS	ANNUAL COST
Jun 15, 2020	$3,200,000	$1,000,000	1	2	33	2/3	$2,133,333	$1,066,667	$1,066,667

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Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2020-21	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,066,667	$2,066,667	$2,133,333	$3,566,667
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,066,667	$1,066,667	-$1,066,667	$1,066,667
TOTAL	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$2,133,333	$3,133,333	$1,066,667	$4,633,334

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The only upside to buying him out next year is the rangers will get some cap savings that can help them ice a team next year, which could help counter the cost of the Shatts buyout.

BUYOUT HISTORY (4)					2019-20	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26
Richards, Brad					$0	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0
Girardi, Dan					$3,611,111	$1,111,111	$1,111,111	$1,111,111
Spooner, Ryan					$300,000	$300,000
Shattenkirk, Kevin					$1,483,333	$6,083,333	$1,433,333	$1,433,333
TOTAL					$5,394,444	$7,494,444	$2,544,444	$2,544,444

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Still, that's a lot of dead cap.

If the plan next year is to carry Hajek and either Rykov or Lindgren as 2/3 of the LD than I buy out Staal without hesitation

 

[SA16]

Let's say that Lindgren CAN replace Staal in the next 6 months.

What do you do with that Staal Contract? Ask him to retire after he gets his signing bonus? Try to get him on LTIR? 50% retention trade?

Marc Staal Contract Buyout Details - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Buyout Details

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATE	BASE SALARY REMAINING	S.BONUS REMAINING	YEARS REMAINING	BUYOUT LENGTH	AGE	BUYOUT RATIO	TOTAL COST	TOTAL SAVINGS	ANNUAL COST
Jun 15, 2020	$3,200,000	$1,000,000	1	2	33	2/3	$2,133,333	$1,066,667	$1,066,667

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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Cap Hit Calculations

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2020-21	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,066,667	$2,066,667	$2,133,333	$3,566,667
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,066,667	$1,066,667	-$1,066,667	$1,066,667
TOTAL	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$2,133,333	$3,133,333	$1,066,667	$4,633,334

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The only upside to buying him out next year is the rangers will get some cap savings that can help them ice a team next year, which could help counter the cost of the Shatts buyout.

BUYOUT HISTORY (4)					2019-20	2020-21	2021-22	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26
Richards, Brad					$0	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0	$0
Girardi, Dan					$3,611,111	$1,111,111	$1,111,111	$1,111,111
Spooner, Ryan					$300,000	$300,000
Shattenkirk, Kevin					$1,483,333	$6,083,333	$1,433,333	$1,433,333
TOTAL					$5,394,444	$7,494,444	$2,544,444	$2,544,444

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Still, that's a lot of dead cap.

There's nothing to be done about the contract. Just sit him in the press box until it ends instead of prolonging it via buyout or giving up assets in trade.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You forget just how bad Smith looked over a larger sample size. He has found a role at the 4th line wing/7th defenseman who goes back to D for small spurts on the PK. Anything larger role and I get the feelings that the pitchforks would be out again for him, like they were last year.

wedding season smith was better than any iteration of post Stralman Staal.

 

[Ori]

wedding season smith was better than any iteration of post Stralman Staal.

lol that was a complete NY disaster that wedding, I mean signing!
And that is how some Canadian hockey players prepare for a new season, all professional!

 

[True Blue]

I'm sure. I was just making a point of how bad Staal has become. I would prefer taking my chances on Lindgren and throw him into the cauldron.

Quinn will not completely remove Stall due to the intangtibles and the fact that they may just view that no one is ready to step in and do much better. That said, I continue to believe that a work share between Lindgren and Staal may be the way to go.

 

[True Blue]

wedding season smith was better than any iteration of post Stralman Staal.

I think you forget just how bad he was. Smith looks to have a good role that he is playing well in. Albeit an expensive one. Start to put him into more prominent roles and results may not be to your liking.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I think you forget just how bad he was. Smith looks to have a good role that he is playing well in. Albeit an expensive one. Start to put him into more prominent roles and results may not be to your liking.

Agreed. The problem is clearly Staal's diminished play. But identifying the problem doesn't make it any easier to identify the solution given the available options currently on the team or in HFD.

That said, buying him out this offseason is looking more and more like an appetizing option. Another $3.6MM in dead space for next year and $1.1MM in dead space for the year following with an ever-growing list of LDs on ELCs gaining experience and waiting to replace him...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think you forget just how bad he was. Smith looks to have a good role that he is playing well in. Albeit an expensive one. Start to put him into more prominent roles and results may not be to your liking.

I haven’t forgotten.

I’m also aware of how bad Staal is. It’s not a strength of comp thing for him either, he’s gotten more minutes against middle and bottom line competition than ‘elite’ comp.

His numbers are historically bad across the board. Smith was never this bad.

 

[kovazub94]

We all know that Staal hasn't been advance stats friendly for awhile now, and as many (not all) others I accepted it hoping that he'll be off the roster if not in a year or two at worst. But I'm so disappointed because even things that Staal is still suppose to do adequately have completely collapsed. He can't win any 50/50 battles, he can't chip the puck out of the zone, he can't clear the crease. Even his attempt to earn a boading call against Canucks was, well, pathetic.

I really want Staal to be 7th D at some point this season (hopefully sooner than later) once Rykov gets healthy and acclimated.

 

[True Blue]

Agreed. The problem is clearly Staal's diminished play. But identifying the problem doesn't make it any easier to identify the solution given the available options currently on the team or in HFD.

That said, buying him out this offseason is looking more and more like an appetizing option. Another $3.6MM in dead space for next year and $1.1MM in dead space for the year following with an ever-growing list of LDs on ELCs gaining experience and waiting to replace him...

That buyout dead cap space could mean the resigning of a DeAngelo.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

That buyout dead cap space could mean the resigning of a DeAngelo.

Not if the replacement for Staal costs less than $2.1MM (the difference between his AAV as-is and his buyout penalty) in 2020. If you replace him with a kid on an ELC (or cheap vet), you actually are left with marginally more space to use for other players.

 

[True Blue]

Not if the replacement for Staal costs less than $2.1MM (the difference between his AAV as-is and his buyout penalty) in 2020. If you replace him with a kid on an ELC (or cheap vet), you actually are left with marginally more space to use for other players.

Am just very wary of adding even more dead cap space for next year. This year and next are tight as it is.

 

[frozenrubber]

I think you're joking or only semi-serious but we can't sign him. IIHF rules prohibit that from happening

He wasn't...that was for Silverfish. Everyone knows Nakladal replaces Girardi, not Staal

 

[frozenrubber]

Am just very wary of adding even more dead cap space for next year. This year and next are tight as it is.

If the Rangers signal the writings on the wall for Staal (by actually scratching him as the season progresses), I see 'Robidas Island' a more likely outcome than a buyout.

 

[Edge]

If (hopefully when) we get to the point where the Rangers feel Lindgren or someone else is ready, I think they'll make that change.

For me, it's not really a matter of believing Staal should be in the lineup, so much as not quite being sure that Lindgren or another young LHD is as ready as I'd like...yet.

That's also why there's a bit of hesitancy on my part to go out and bring in a stopgap now. I don't see the needle moving a hell of a whole lot, and I'd prefer not to have two spare parts taking up roster spots should a kind be ready for a mid-season call-up.

I know that means a lot of frustration now, and in the immediate future. But I'm more interested in having an opportunity there come December or January.

As for what would come next, I'd like to believe Staal becomes the 7th defenseman in that scenario and there's no need to even consider a buyout.

 

[offdacrossbar]

lets be reality here. EASY fix time.

MARC STAAL> dead last in corsi for all defenseman. LAST

no one, and i mean no one, calls him out on the ranger broadcasts and its criminal. in fact they go out of there way to praise him. maloney tried the other night saying he cant skate and he cant defend anymore. he cant be up ice and he cant get caught in the middle. hello ?

20 more mins last night. and PK 4:30 more on the PK same as trouba. wtf QUINN ???

lets first off fix this. 3rd pair. 10-14 mins per night MAX. no PK. minimize the damage he can do.

hes literally the worst defender in the entire league. play him like that rather than starting him on the 1st PAIR. you cannot make this stuff up. quinn, are you paying attention.

and dont give me the who will take his mins crap. skjei is bad we all agree. trouba has enough mins now. so that leaves, KIDS hajek, fox and deangelo. PLAY THE KIDS !!

hejek does everything better than staal now. same with fox. ditto deangelo. BETTER. THEY ARE BETTER !!!!

STOP WITH THE MARC STAAL STUFF. he done.

 

[True Blue]

and dont give me the who will take his mins crap. skjei is bad we all agree. trouba has enough mins now. so that leaves, KIDS hajek, fox and deangelo. PLAY THE KIDS !!

hejek does everything better than staal now. same with fox. ditto deangelo. BETTER. THEY ARE BETTER !!!!

STOP WITH THE MARC STAAL STUFF. he done.

The kids may not be ready for more minutes. And the feel seems to be that management does not want Hajek, Fox or DeAngelo killing penalties right now.

I desperately want Staal to play less or not play at all. But not at the expense of playing the kids for minutes that they are not prepared for or in roles that they are not ready for.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Having seen what Staal was and what he has become is crazy. Those injuries ruined his career and I for one feel bad for him.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The kids may not be ready for more minutes. And the feel seems to be that management does not want Hajek, Fox or DeAngelo killing penalties right now.

I desperately want Staal to play less or not play at all. But not at the expense of playing the kids for minutes that they are not prepared for or in roles that they are not ready for.

that argument sounds good but really its full of holes.

sadly, skjei must play. hes under contract and hes young. hes dumb and some how all his hockey sense has been drained from his mind, but he needs to play. there is no one else. staal is not better.

hes last in corsi in the entire league. anyone else would be better, no ?

unless we are prepared to H/S staal, he needs to be protected and sheltered. calling someone up isnt the answer right now unless staal is hurt or scratched. smith ? hes preferable over staal even. ugh.

the answer is to play trouba and whatever lefty can handle the mins and then a lot the mins after that to anyone not named staal. skjei, fox, hajek and deangelo will play more. play the kids more.

quinn shortens his bench all the time. cuts ice all the time. cannot marc staal be cut ?

if quinn doesnt do the same thing with staal he does with anyone else, then he should be shown the door. he cant coach like that. what message does it send ? the vets on this team are all underperforming it seems. its a malaise. accountability can not be occasional just like effort cannot be occasional.

win game or develop players ? not mutually exclusive. lets do both. you accomplish that by playing your best players more and your weakest less.

unless you are marc staal. then its the opposite ?

no more.

 

[True Blue]

the answer is to play trouba and whatever lefty can handle the mins and then a lot the mins after that to anyone not named staal. skjei, fox, hajek and deangelo will play more. play the kids more.

The only thing full of holes is this argument, which is basically you preaching from the mountain top. Skjei has shown that he is woefully unfit to be on the top pairing. Smith has himself in a role that he looks good in. Expand it and we have seen what happens. You state "Play the kids more". My belief is that the coaches would say: "They have not shown that they can handle more and force feeding them would hurt their development.". So you get what you get. Neither Quinn, nor Gorton, nor JD have deemed that Lindgren should be playing those minutes right now. Neither Quinn, nor Gorton, nor JD seem to believe that the rookies should be playing larger minutes.

So much as it is hard to watch, Staal is in there to take the body blows until one of those things changes. It is awful to watch, but the triumvirate of Quinn, Gorton & JD are playing the long game. I will tend to trust their judgement in his ahead of simply screaming "Play the kids!".

 

[RangersFan1994]

Having seen what Staal was and what he has become is crazy. Those injuries ruined his career and I for one feel bad for him.

the sad part is Staal rather play like garbage than retire for health reasons. I am sure he knows he is not an NHL player anymore. why keep playing to ruin that Rangers legacy he had, before the injuries. what a stupid player. just walk away.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The only thing full of holes is this argument, which is basically you preaching from the mountain top. Skjei has shown that he is woefully unfit to be on the top pairing. Smith has himself in a role that he looks good in. Expand it and we have seen what happens. You state "Play the kids more". My belief is that the coaches would say: "They have not shown that they can handle more and force feeding them would hurt their development.". So you get what you get. Neither Quinn, nor Gorton, nor JD have deemed that Lindgren should be playing those minutes right now. Neither Quinn, nor Gorton, nor JD seem to believe that the rookies should be playing larger minutes.

So much as it is hard to watch, Staal is in there to take the body blows until one of those things changes. It is awful to watch, but the triumvirate of Quinn, Gorton & JD are playing the long game. I will tend to trust their judgement in his ahead of simply screaming "Play the kids!".

im not the only one saying it.

what are we rebuilding or trying to make the playoffs ?

no one is saying play hajek 25 mins per game. or fox. skjei is better than staal and it isnt even an argument. hes faster, smarter, better with the puck has more offensive and is more able to recover. hes been playing dumb as rocks but no question who should get the minutes.

staal is the worst defender in the league. period. corsi says so, eye test says so. i cannot support any argument thats ignores that and is based upon,"hes the best we got" or the kids cant play. they cannot be worse.

ill take mistakes of commission over omission. staal simply cant do it anymore. the game is too fast and hes too slow. hes costing us a goal per game. and his PK ability is zero. hes a liability. when he plays, we are ALWAYS short handed.

that triumvirate your mention is responsible for this team. they need to play staal less, play trouba and skjei and the other 3 more and limit staals ice to sheltered 5v5. get him off the PK. let smith take his mins even if it means 20 has to play some PK. so be it. hes not doing much else anyway.

 

[SA16]

the sad part is Staal rather play like garbage than retire for health reasons. I am sure he knows he is not an NHL player anymore. why keep playing to ruin that Rangers legacy he had, before the injuries. what a stupid player. just walk away.

Just a thought but the reason he may not want to retire is because he's owed 9.2M.

 

[True Blue]

im not the only one saying it.

Who is saying it? Fans on a message board?

what are we rebuilding or trying to make the playoffs ?

Rebuilding. One of the ways you rebuild and NOT get into a 10 year rebuild is putting kids into positions where they can succeed instead of chucking them into the fire before they are ready.
no one is saying play hajek 25 mins per game. or fox. skjei is better than staal and it isnt even an argument. hes faster, smarter, better with the puck has more offensive and is more able to recover. hes been playing dumb as rocks but no question who should get the minutes.

Ok, so then play him with Trouba, where he clearly failed. I don't have all the answers and am only hazarding into guesses. But it may be the same case with Skjei. They want to get his confidence level up so that his level of play can go up. Or they are trying to get his trade value to go up.

staal is the worst defender in the league. period. corsi says so, eye test says so. i cannot support any argument thats ignores that and is based upon,"hes the best we got" or the kids cant play. they cannot be worse.

They point is not that they cannot be worse now. They point is that the team will need them to be better players in the future.

that triumvirate your mention is responsible for this team. they need to play staal less, play trouba and skjei and the other 3 more and limit staals ice to sheltered 5v5. get him off the PK. let smith take his mins even if it means 20 has to play some PK. so be it. hes not doing much else anyway.

Seems that Quinn, Gorton and JD disagree with your thinking. So either all three are idiots or they have a plan and they are following it.

 

[True Blue]

the sad part is Staal rather play like garbage than retire for health reasons. I am sure he knows he is not an NHL player anymore. why keep playing to ruin that Rangers legacy he had, before the injuries. what a stupid player. just walk away.

Wait, wait. He is stupid for walking away from over $9m?