Marc Bergevin Press Conference 1 PM

[roy munson]

Do you think Bergy deserves some accountability for a cup finals? Or is it only allowed to acknowledge the negatives?

Sorry to intrude into this discussion, but the cup final was the only bright spot in his 10 years. And that was possible only because of the divisions format since we would have to beat Tampa just to get out of the division. A few good trades here and there, but even those trades didn't really make the team that much better. I threw the towel some years ago and watch what they give me to watch. Molson hiring and extending MB doesn't give me hope for the years to come, as he's the one who'll hire the next guy. A really competitve team seems like a dream.

 

[CHwest]

I'll tell you this... If he rushes another guy to the NHL at age 18 where they did not dominate a development league yet, I will be all over him on that! It's stupid and I give him credit for admitting to it to some degree.

Development road can be different but Bergevin is not wrong about that being more on the player than the organization. Being obsessed with getting better is how players develop. The teams responsibility is to facilitate the tools for them to be able to do it. If we didn't rush him, I believe we would have a better idea on who he is at 21 year vs rushing him. But at the end of the day, KK will be who he is at 23/24 no matter the development road IMO. Don't know if I explained that right

Wait, what, Kk will be done at 24 but your boy dru dru was still young and developing at 25?

 

[Whitesnake]

Caufield is 20 while JK is 21.....and Caufield don't need to spend 1yr in AHL, think he's proven that.

Caufield will be playing his REAL rookie season and he'll finish it at 21. JK finished his first season at 18. JK was put in a position to ride the centerman position while he didn't play there the year of his draft. And knowing that the centerman position is more complicated than the wing one. And there's nothing that suggest that Caufield would have been hurt with 1 season of AHL hockey. Need it? Maybe not. Yet, I guess we could say that for quite a few players. Though, not that I think he will struggle...but how about we wait more than 30 games to assess that?

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I would have gotten Dvorak if I didn't get either KK or Danault. That's why I say 2 of the 3. Those centers are more important than Anderson, Drouin, Byron, and Armia. Move some combination of those wingers, and we're out of cap purgatory. That's not EA sports, just dealings in a cap era.

Having said that, I didn't like Danault's attitude toward "his role." His role was established as a shutdown C in the playoff run, where he wasn't very productive offensively, as he didn't need to be. He earns his pay checks as an elite shutdown C, capable of shutting down the elite C's of the league. And he said during the playoffs, when he wasn't producing offensively, that he was having the best, happiest moments of his career. So I really don't know why he was still going on about the role LA promised him when he just lived his ideal role...

And there are risks with KK. MB and the organization for one, seem to have very serious doubts about whether KK can reach his potential. I never liked the pick from the beginning. But you hope the moments he looked good could be more consistent when he filled out and had more strength and stamina.

The cap purgatory comment is based on the leverage that you give far superior players in Suzuki and Caufield who will also be RFA's in each of the next two seasons. You can't pay a bum like KK 6.1 and expect the other two to not expect substantially more. I guarantee you that there was very little if any thought of matching such a dumb offer sheet. I suspect MB immediately was looking for replacement options. KK was clearly a source of frustration within the organization as he refused to accept his role in a pro system and allowed his flaws to be exposed. Maybe KK figures it out but there is little to no evidence to suggest that he was on that path and there was no case to support matching an offer that I am certain Waddell was hoping Montreal would match.

 

[26Mats]

Danault's ideal role is probably going to the beach unrecognized pretty often and not seeing himself on the news while playing a minor role for a team that won't need him when it's good. He wants to enjoy life and not work too hard, understandable.

I like his work ethic. But unfortunately, being the number 1 C by default went to his head. Sad, he previously had a good head on his shoulders.

 

[26Mats]

The cap purgatory comment is based on the leverage that you give far superior players in Suzuki and Caufield who will also be RFA's in each of the next two seasons. You can't pay a bum like KK 6.1 and expect the other two to not expect substantially more. I guarantee you that there was very little if any thought of matching such a dumb offer sheet. I suspect MB immediately was looking for replacement options. KK was clearly a source of frustration within the organization as he refused to accept his role in a pro system and allowed his flaws to be exposed. Maybe KK figures it out but there is little to no evidence to suggest that he was on that path and there was no case to support matching an offer that I am certain Waddell was hoping Montreal would match.

If one thinks KK has little chance of becoming a 6.1M player, one doesn't match...

I'm not sure how his 6.1M affects negotiations with other players. Does Drouin's 5.5M affect other players' salary demands. I think people just see it as a bad contract given to an unproven player than couldn't live up to it. I think the same would be true of KK's - the organization was put in a difficult position to pay a player double his worth by another organization out of spite; it was a one off deal...

At any rate, I'm happy with Suzuki and Dvorak, and hopeful Poehling or Evans can pan out, or we can draft a star C. But with Timmins' record of drafting C's, I'm not holding my breath we'll draft one. But you never know. The most likely way we'll get a good C is by him drafting good dmen and moving a dman for a C. But now with KK and Danault out and Dvorak in, we have 1 less C in the organization. Which means Timmins will go back to wasting picks on C's that inevitably have little offensive upside.

 

[Essenege]

Sorry to intrude into this discussion, but the cup final was the only bright spot in his 10 years. And that was possible only because of the divisions format since we would have to beat Tampa just to get out of the division. A few good trades here and there, but even those trades didn't really make the team that much better. I threw the towel some years ago and watch what they give me to watch. Molson hiring and extending MB doesn't give me hope for the years to come, as he's the one who'll hire the next guy. A really competitve team seems like a dream.

From my perspective, the 2017 to 2020 lows were unavoidable once Bergevin chose to ride Gainey’s core (abysmal prospect pool in the 2008-2012 timespan, late picks in Bergevin’s early tenure because of Price’s magic, aging core Markov, Pleks, even Subban…).

Bergevin agile retooling made the « lows » much shorter and less deep then it should have been.

 

[BenchBrawl]

If you're going to overpay a young player based on potential, then overpay Suzuki. Break the bank for him, I have no problem with that. Kotkaniemi was still too raw after 3 seasons, and showing leaks to his game that are not so easily fixed, like his lack of balance.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

for all way you wanna see it , KK draft/trade/OS has been a failure even if we got a better play at the end of all this.

You shouldnt be trading a 3oa for a guy with 39 points after 3 years you drafted him.

 

[Miller Time]

I don't recall saying that in specific (if he messes up this lottery pick) but I do recall saying if he messes up other things I will move off the MB fan bus. I think you might be reaching on this. And for the record, I really speak to things I agree with and things I don't as time moves along. Are you blind when I have been saying for years that I did not like one bit that we rushed him at age 18? I appears you cherry pick only other things taken out of context and ignore the things I criticize him with? So things I criticize him with, you move along and say nothing but things I support him with, you focus on? Come on man, give me a break here on that.

I'm not 100% convinced you comprehend my stance well but you may not be the only one left from past post wars about Bergevin. You seem to want the one side of the fence vs the other and nobody is allowed in the middle. I may have been on one side but that was many years ago now. For a while now, I've been on the fence or trying to be as neutral as possible. Where you might get confused is where I fight stupid exaggeration in attempts to prove weak points. Like some thinking he wants out cause he said "I have one year left and I will honor it". Sorry, but I don't comprehend that the same as others.

One other thing... I'm personally not happy with Bergevin letting Danault walk over $0.5M and signing Savard and Hoffman. There are other things I am not quite content on what he has done bud but I don't hate the guy either. Understand?

I don't know why there's this constant need to frame things in such a bipolar way...

He's a GM. He's been on the job 10 years. The roster has gotten progressively worse over that time (winning %), the team has been quite terrible at drafting & developing despite a "build via the draft" approach, and we've squandered much of the prime years of a HOF #1 goalie... that's the context of recognizing he's a poor choice to remain as GM.

As far as current state... the team remains a cap spent team that is at best a borderline playoff roster.
The two main areas of need in the offseason were not addressed & if anything, both spots (top 6C & top 4D) are weaker than at the end of the season.
The draft was an embarrassment (albeit for reasons beyond quality of players selected).
He failed to get his prime RFA extended.

I like the Savard, Paquette & Perreault additions. Hoffman less so, but only bc of the roster makeup & cap crunch.
The Dvorak trade looks pretty good. I'm pretty high on his ability to be a very good cap/contribution add, though we paid a heavy price.

So it's not an "all bad" story. He just continues to be mediocre... average at best... a gm that keeps going 1 step fwd, 2 steps back, buffered by cap spending ownership.

Can you imagine how bad this team would be if we were on an internal budget? If he didn't have the ability to take advantage of the covid Ufa summers to spend aggressively while many of his peers make do with flat budgets or cutting salary marching orders....

I hate that the team isn't led by a GM with vision and the competence to build towards that. MB? don't care for his typical bravado and arrogance I PCs, nor the way he makes excuses, throws players under the bus and manages his hockey ops (yes men & friends vs leveraging owners money & franchise aura to target the best)... but the guy himself seems to have a good sense of humor and strong work ethic. No "hatred" here.

 

[LaP]

One example: Norlinder makes the team cause he shows that he can skate, pass, and "he don't look out of place". I'm a fan of Norlinder but he has to show ability to be trusted in our own end and make good decisions with the puck. Others will look at offensive ability but that's not how I would evaluate my D. I look at how physical you can play, how you can escape pressure, and how you can be in the right position. His offensive game is not in question.

Basically, messing up would be rushing them to fill holes cause you need them and not allowing them to fly under the radar like Poehling and Brook did last year in the AHL. Same with Harris... another NCAA year and coming in as pro one year later is good thing with me. Speculating that he don't want to play for the Habs because he wants to play with his current core of team he has grown with and they think they can win? I'll leave that to others who play the speculation game. Guys not willing to sign with their teams is very very rare. Possible but unlikely, not worried about it.

This current pool is really only going to pay off once they reach prime. Most players only reach prime at 23-25 range. Only guys like Suzuki, Romanov, and Caufield show ability earlier which indicates they are impact players. Suzuki and Caufield more than Romanov but I'm a fan of Romanov. He is obsessed with hockey and this kid should be very good if he learns the maturity part of playing D in the NHL.

So MB basically has a free pass for the next 5 years no matter what happens with the NHL team as long as he fills it with players he got from other teams ans doesn't rush prospects? After that what? Will it be on the players again? Will it be the fault of the young players again like last time? When will MB be reason it doesn't work? That's what i want to know. If we start missing the playoffs again (what i think will happen if Suzuki and Caufield don't take the next step) then when enough gonna be enough? How many years?

 

[Miller Time]

C group cab be better. Dvorak brings more offense than Danault while having almost the same defensive results. JK is not replaced but he wasn't a valuable center anyway. 62 pts in 171 games, he is easy to replace, Evans, Paquette, Perreault or Poehling can't do worse. Habs have now two strong lines and that's what matters. And Suzuki will improve.

It could be. I'm pretty bullish on Dvorak and Evans (assuming he's healthy).

JKO was our best C at transition... with the D still a mess, that aspect will be missed more than many realize.

Danault, for his flaws, was also a very strong 5 on 5 play driver. Dvorak has to have a great season to be an overall upgrade... lateral replacement is more likely, downgrade not out of the question.

Perreault, Poehling, Paquette... I certainly hope for best case impact, and, reality is that kind of depth is Dime a dozen. Perreault didn't exactly help the Jets when Schiefle was out & PLD disappointed.

Suzuki... hope the kid builds on last year & playoffs. Even moreso, I hope fans don't turn on him the way they turned on JKO if he goes through very normal early career uneven progression... expectations are massive and the weight of carrying the C spot are huge with only Dvorak behind him.

"Could be better"
"Could be worse"

I'd say it's 50/50 at best, probably moreso 40/60...

 

[Ozmodiar]

for all way you wanna see it , KK draft/trade/OS has been a failure even if we got a better play at the end of all this.

You shouldnt be trading a 3oa for a guy with 39 points after 3 years you drafted him.

I agree with the first paragraph.

regarding the 2nd paragraph, the 3rd pick used to select KK is a sunk cost. Done. Can’t be undone. The fact that they used a 3rd on him shouldn’t affect future decisions. They know more about the player now than they did 3 1/2 years ago. Make the right decision based on the latest information, and move forward.

 

[Habs178]

What I got out of this is that KK had the team questioning his worth and ability to progress. Clearly other players had passed him on the depth chart. In that respect it was up to him to up his game in whichever manner he could. When Jake Evans is out performing you, how can you be upset that you have to sit? When Phildo has to come on the ice to take D zone face-offs because you can't win them, how can you be upset? I wonder if the offer sheet will only make him feel justified instead of looking inside himself. I guess we will know some day. I've always said we saw KK the boy and KK the man would be a beast. It's possible I could be wrong if he doesn't ever grow up. I wish him luck.

U need to go back and watch some games. Really determine who could and couldn’t win face offs.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

If one thinks KK has little chance of becoming a 6.1M player, one doesn't match...

I'm not sure how his 6.1M affects negotiations with other players. Does Drouin's 5.5M affect other players' salary demands. I think people just see it as a bad contract given to an unproven player than couldn't live up to it. I think the same would be true of KK's - the organization was put in a difficult position to pay a player double his worth by another organization out of spite; it was a one off deal...

At any rate, I'm happy with Suzuki and Dvorak, and hopeful Poehling or Evans can pan out, or we can draft a star C. But with Timmins' record of drafting C's, I'm not holding my breath we'll draft one. But you never know. The most likely way we'll get a good C is by him drafting good dmen and moving a dman for a C. But now with KK and Danault out and Dvorak in, we have 1 less C in the organization. Which means Timmins will go back to wasting picks on C's that inevitably have little offensive upside.

Urqhart, chipchura, lapierre, grabovski, corey locke, LeBlanc, Maxwell, Mccarron, Galchenyuk, KK, etc. etc. etc. I don't remember any legit top 6 center he drafted. Ever. In 17 years at the helm. 3 different administrations (Gaineys, Gauthiers, Bergevins). Yet somehow, ppl still blame mostly on development and keep defending Tmmins. Mindboggling

 

[jaffy27]

Caufield will be playing his REAL rookie season and he'll finish it at 21. JK finished his first season at 18. JK was put in a position to ride the centerman position while he didn't play there the year of his draft. And knowing that the centerman position is more complicated than the wing one. And there's nothing that suggest that Caufield would have been hurt with 1 season of AHL hockey. Need it? Maybe not. Yet, I guess we could say that for quite a few players. Though, not that I think he will struggle...but how about we wait more than 30 games to assess that?

fair enough......there's no doubt that KK's position is much more difficult, and I see now what you were meaning with the 3yrs

1 year in the AHL for Caufield 100% would not hinder his development.....I just don't believe that he needs it. I've seen KK play and Caufield play and Caufield is playing a much more mature game then KK, Caufield actually looks like he's been in the league for 3yrs, it's why I believe he can skip that AHL stage.

Listen, I'm a big KK fan, I still believe he can amount to a decent player, he's just been trending down which is concerning.

 

[OnTheRun]

I agree with the first paragraph.

regarding the 2nd paragraph, the 3rd pick used to select KK is a sunk cost. Done. Can’t be undone. The fact that they used a 3rd on him shouldn’t affect future decisions. They know more about the player now than they did 3 1/2 years ago. Make the right decision based on the latest information, and move forward.

Hmm, latest information eh?

Pre-OS:
> Marc didn't want the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc didn't want to move a 1st for Dvorak.

Post-OS:
> Marc took the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc cough up a 1st for Dvorak.

The latest information is well, the same as usual; Marc made the "most" of a bad situation he himself created. That's kind of his shtick since he got here and one of the main reason his team get stuck in neutral more often than not.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Hmm, latest information eh?

Pre-OS:
> Marc didn't want the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc didn't want to move a 1st for Dvorak.

Post-OS:
> Marc took the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc cough up a 1st for Dvorak.

The latest information is well, the same as usual; Marc made the "most" of a bad situation he himself created. That's kind of his shtick since he got here and one of the main reason his team get stuck in neutral more often than not.

Here's the biggest thing here too -

He was mad about the term/money handed to KK in the OS. Which he wasn't prepared for when he turned down the Canes trade offer.
They were after Dvorak since the draft but even Bill Armstrong confirms that he wanted a 1st round pick for Dvorak.
Once they determined they didn't wanna pay the money to KK, they gave in to Coyotes demands (i.e. no one all summer long offered a 1st for Dvorak)
and since he found himself in a bad bargaining position, he managed to get conditions on the firsts where the Coyotes can get the best of the 2.

It's not really masterful. But I guess we should all clap at a Puppy who pisses on the floor but rolls around in it to clean it up.

 

[jaffy27]

for all way you wanna see it , KK draft/trade/OS has been a failure even if we got a better play at the end of all this.

You shouldnt be trading a 3oa for a guy with 39 points after 3 years you drafted him.

Edmonton shouldn't be trading away 1st overall Yakupov......offers are coming in and you know the deficiencies of the player....do you not trade him just because he's 1st overall.

Edmonton has PoolParty.....3rd overall.....you know damn well he's not gonna flourish, offers are coming in but because he was drafted so high, you keep him......

If Edmonton GM's do what Bergevin did, maybe now they have a Josh Anderson playing alongside McDavid, maybe Hertl is centering the 2nd line and has Draistl on his wing, maybe they go to the cup finals like Montreal did.

You don't keep players just because of where you drafted them, you keep them if they're good

 

[Ozmodiar]

Hmm, latest information eh?

Pre-OS:
> Marc didn't want the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc didn't want to move a 1st for Dvorak.

Post-OS:
> Marc took the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc cough up a 1st for Dvorak.

The latest information is well, the same as usual; Marc made the "most" of a bad situation he himself created. That's kind of his shtick since he got here and one of the main reason his team get stuck in neutral more often than not.

Circumstances changed after the offer sheet. He based his decision to match, or not match, on that.

 

[jaffy27]

Hmm, latest information eh?

Pre-OS:
> Marc didn't want the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc didn't want to move a 1st for Dvorak.

Post-OS:
> Marc took the Canes picks for KK.
> Marc cough up a 1st for Dvorak.

The latest information is well, the same as usual; Marc made the "most" of a bad situation he himself created. That's kind of his shtick since he got here and one of the main reason his team get stuck in neutral more often than not.

what picks were the Canes offering?

Stuck in Neutral?

Like making it to the finals neutral???

Habs now have two shots at a top 10 pick.....this scenario couldn't have worked out better

 

[Ozmodiar]

Here's the biggest thing here too -

He was mad about the term/money handed to KK in the OS. Which he wasn't prepared for when he turned down the Canes trade offer.
They were after Dvorak since the draft but even Bill Armstrong confirms that he wanted a 1st round pick for Dvorak.
Once they determined they didn't wanna pay the money to KK, they gave in to Coyotes demands (i.e. no one all summer long offered a 1st for Dvorak)
and since he found himself in a bad bargaining position, he managed to get conditions on the firsts where the Coyotes can get the best of the 2.

It's not really masterful. But I guess we should all clap at a Puppy who pisses on the floor but rolls around in it to clean it up.

Don’t forget that he’d be more willing to spend a 1st rounder if he had 2 of them.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

From my perspective, the 2017 to 2020 lows were unavoidable once Bergevin chose to ride Gainey’s core (abysmal prospect pool in the 2008-2012 timespan, late picks in Bergevin’s early tenure because of Price’s magic, aging core Markov, Pleks, even Subban…).

Bergevin agile retooling made the « lows » much shorter and less deep then it should have been.

Agile retooling? Lol

KK, CC and Drouin, he got from sucking because he didn't plan for an aging Markov, while on the other hand was forced to trade a guy like Pacioretty.

The lows less deep? Without Covid, it would've been 4-5 years without making the playoffs (habs record is 3). Would've tied 6 years withput winning a round, in all likelyhood.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

 

[montreal]

Our management asked Mete to be more physical, maybe the problem is not how the players view themselves, but the way the management view them...

well said!

 

[loudi94]

U need to go back and watch some games. Really determine who could and couldn’t win face offs.

I really don't. He was deemed unreliable to be on the ice for important Dzone starts in the playoffs. Then he was deemed unreliable to be in the lineup. Not Evans, not Staal, not Suzuki, not Danault. KK was the one sitting in the stands. Whatever you think you saw on TV wasn't what the coaching staff saw.