Maple Leafs hire Craig Berube as head coach, Lane Lambert as associate coach and Marc Savard as assistant coach

[Connor McConnor]

Friedman has fell off so bad in the last 5 or 6 years.

Kind of like his hair

 

[HockeyVirus]

 

[luiginb]

meh.. everyone said Babcock was going to be the tough person to hold them accountable.. same **** different coach. Until the players start giving a damn, the coach doesn't matter.

Nah, Babcock is an insecure guy playing a 'ard mannn... Berube legimately scares me.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

These narratives always make me laugh and shake my head. What could Berube ask of Matthews to do he isn't doing?

Not choke completely every year in the playoffs.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

First time I've seen Marner go to the corner.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Nah, Babcock is an insecure guy playing a 'ard mannn... Berube legimately scares me.

I know Babcock personally. He doesn’t take s***. You’re making opinions based off what you read online. That characteristic led to him losing the room in Toronto. If Berube is as tough as people say he is, it’s going to be interesting how Toronto’s core react to it because they didn’t exactly react well when they had someone whose known as a hard ass in the past.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

I'm not usually a hater but wtf is with that dude's head? Like LMAO

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Is that even Marner? Looks more like Dewar?

 

[The Shadow]

I'm not usually a hater but wtf is with that dude's head? Like LMAO

Who are you referring to?

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Usually coaching changes do that but only temporally. With how poor Marner and the big 4 have been in the playoffs I don't see how Berube can change that. They are soft as hell and not built for playoff hockey. A coaching change won't fix that. And 8 years is a huge enough sample size.

Marner has not only been poor in the play offs, he's had decent years, and the issue isnt the big 4 the issue is the supporting cast is too weak, the defense is in shambles, and the goaltending is horrid,

 

[Suntouchable13]

Marner has not only been poor in the play offs, he's had decent years, and the issue isnt the big 4 the issue is the supporting cast is too weak, the defense is in shambles, and the goaltending is horrid,

Yes, they are the issue because they took too much money and that's why the supporting cast is too weak. They are the core issue with this team. They should be able to carry this team more, but they can not and have not.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Yes, they are the issue because they took too much money and that's why the supporting cast is too weak. They are the core issue with this team. They should be able to carry this team more, but they can not and have not.

That's not a big 4 issue

If the leafs had stronger drafting they'd be able to plug holes with young players

Aslo you can't put the blame on those 4 players, hockey is a team sport, Leafs right now are scape goating Marner as the issue when he's not the issue, the issue is poor defense and goaltending. I do not understand the idea that trading Marner will fix the leafs, it will just create another hole.

 

[thegazelle]

I know Babcock personally. He doesn’t take s***. You’re making opinions based off what you read online. That characteristic led to him losing the room in Toronto. If Berube is as tough as people say he is, it’s going to be interesting how Toronto’s core react to it because they didn’t exactly react well when they had someone whose known as a hard ass in the past.

Agree wholeheartedly. This is like parenting.

Yesterday, after a family funeral, a number of us went to dinner. My nephew (4) was misbehaving and my brother was very stern with him, and when he was not listening, my brother gave him a slap on the hand, to which my nephew started to cry.

A table beside us had parents who looked over and remarked (I can hear them), "that's so cruel to that boy". Meanwhile, in observing their kids, their kids were literally on devices the whole time and did not make eye contact when parents or restaurant staff were talking with them. Two of them were fighting and swearing at each other and the parents did nothing. Yet they remarked that what my brother did was "cruel" even though all the kids at our table were well behaved and able to engage in conversation with others - and none of them were on their devices or cursing or not making eye contact, etc.

I couldn't care less if Marner was upset upset with Babcock. Marner is softer than a marshmallow and indicative of some of the young people are nowadays, all with feelings hurt and what not. Players (and people in general) were much tougher, resilient, accepted criticism from coaches and took their lumps when they made mistakes in the past. Coaching in a tough disciplined way is not antiquated - it just is not something to which the softies in this generation are accustomed.

Coaches are not there to be your friend, no different than a good boss in the workplace. The best ones will bring out the potential in their charges, and yes - encouragement is important and positive reinforcement is important, but just like other facets of society, there is nothing wrong with a person having to experience punishment, failure, etc. as part of the process of maturing to the kind of person they should be.

Hopefully Berube will bring that about on his team, but I suspect some players who like to be pampered and catered to will be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Suntouchable13]

That's not a big 4 issue

If the leafs had stronger drafting they'd be able to plug holes with young players

Aslo you can't put the blame on those 4 players, hockey is a team sport, Leafs right now are scape goating Marner as the issue when he's not the issue, the issue is poor defense and goaltending. I do not understand the idea that trading Marner will fix the leafs, it will just create another hole.

He is the issue. How is it on the goaltending when they can't score? He is supposed to create offence in playoffs, and he has not done anything special. For the money he is making, he should be doing more in the playoffs. He is overrated and overpaid. This team is built around offence, and people say when this high scoring offence scores 2 goals a game in the playoffs that it's a goaltending issue?

 

[thegazelle]

That's not a big 4 issue

If the leafs had stronger drafting they'd be able to plug holes with young players

Aslo you can't put the blame on those 4 players, hockey is a team sport, Leafs right now are scape goating Marner as the issue when he's not the issue, the issue is poor defense and goaltending. I do not understand the idea that trading Marner will fix the leafs, it will just create another hole.

Agree completely. I am not a fan of Marner, but he's not the only problem here. And I agree that neither is JUST the core 4. The fact that Shanahan is still in place just signals to me that the same corporate culture is going to just continue, perhaps with a difference nuance.

You hit the nail on the head. The Leafs, just like my Oilers, in my view, suffer from deficiencies historically (in the last decade or more) in both goaltending and defense. Sure there are occasional flashes of brilliance, but the scouting needs to be improved with some more homegrown draft picks that get developed.

That said I do think Marner IS PART of the problem - he is paid an exorbitant amount to produce offense, and when it counts in the playoffs, he disappears. The blame cannot be put solely on him, as you aptly described, but he is not immune from being a contributing factor.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

He is the issue. How is it on the goaltending when they can't score? He is supposed to create offence in playoffs, and he has not done anything special. For the money he is making, he should be doing more in the playoffs. He is overrated and overpaid. This team is built around offence, and people say when this high scoring offence scores 2 goals a game in the playoffs that it's a goaltending issue?

For one he's primarily a play maker and he hasn't done horrible in the playoffs, until this year he has actually been decent.

And yes a 100 pt, selke cailiber winger is over- rated.

If t he leafs trade him its going to bite them in the ass, he's a special player and a very good one, putting all of the blame on him is stupid for Leaf fans to do.

 

[um]

That's not a big 4 issue

If the leafs had stronger drafting they'd be able to plug holes with young players

Aslo you can't put the blame on those 4 players, hockey is a team sport, Leafs right now are scape goating Marner as the issue when he's not the issue, the issue is poor defense and goaltending. I do not understand the idea that trading Marner will fix the leafs, it will just create another hole.

I don't think trading Marner will create a hole, he's more of a luxury. I'd say the same for Nylander and Tavares. Matthews is their only 1C so I don't think he's a luxury, anymore.

Trading your strength to address your weakness isn't outlandish thinking, especially when the team results haven't been working out for 8 straight years.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Agree completely. I am not a fan of Marner, but he's not the only problem here. And I agree that neither is JUST the core 4. The fact that Shanahan is still in place just signals to me that the same corporate culture is going to just continue, perhaps with a difference nuance.

You hit the nail on the head. The Leafs, just like my Oilers, in my view, suffer from deficiencies historically (in the last decade or more) in both goaltending and defense. Sure there are occasional flashes of brilliance, but the scouting needs to be improved with some more homegrown draft picks that get developed.

That said I do think Marner IS PART of the problem - he is paid an exorbitant amount to produce offense, and when it counts in the playoffs, he disappears. The blame cannot be put solely on him, as you aptly described, but he is not immune from being a contributing factor.

The problem is as an offensive system they go for the wrong type of D-man, I feel like there stuck in the early 2000's going for slow moving hard hitting d-man, if you're going to play an offensive system you need d-man who can move the puck and help with transition. I feel like Leafs management suffers from now going for the right type of players to play in the system they have.

 

[Fatass]

If the Leafs struggle out of the gate then things might go sideways in their room. Berube is a hard nosed guy and coaches like that. Core Players need to buy in and that takes winning.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

I don't think trading Marner will create a hole, he's more of a luxury. I'd say the same for Nylander and Tavares. Matthews is their only 1C so I don't think he's a luxury, anymore.

Trading your strength to address your weakness isn't outlandish thinking, especially when the team results haven't been working out for 8 straight years.

Or you Resign Marner, the primary playmaker for your 69 goal scoring Center, wait a year get Tavares off the books, focus on drafting and developing talent or make smart trades to improve your team.

Look at Vancouver, Alvin rebuilt that team in a year to be a contender, I can see the leafs capable of doing that, you just need Treveling to be innovative and creative.

 

[thegazelle]

The problem is as an offensive system they go for the wrong type of D-man, I feel like there stuck in the early 2000's going for slow moving hard hitting d-man, if you're going to play an offensive system you need d-man who can move the puck and help with transition. I feel like Leafs management suffers from now going for the right type of players to play in the system they have.

This is a very good point and an astute observation I had not previously considered. Very true that not all D men and the same and that defensive systems can vary widely.

Definitely these playoffs watching D men like Makar, Bouchard, Forsling, Harley, Ekholm and even Hughes...they can play multifaceted roles and are not stuck in one mode of play.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

If the Leafs struggle out of the gate then things might go sideways in their room. Berube is a hard nosed guy and coaches like that. Core Players need to buy in and that takes winning.

Coaching has never been the issue with the leafs, the issue has been Management bring in players that do not fit the system they play, you guys literally have one guy who can move the puck, that's an issue, they need to start playing the young guys and see what they have, a guy like Robertson is probably going to be a good young cheap second liner for a while that's a start that's cheap depth.

This is a very good point and an astute observation I had not previously considered. Very true that not all D men and the same and that defensive systems can vary widely.

Definitely these playoffs watching D men like Makar, Bouchard, Forsling, Harley, Ekholm and even Hughes...they can play multifaceted roles and are not stuck in one mode of play.

Holland gets a raw deal in Edmonton, I feel like he's done a better job than Dubas did in toronto, he wasn't perfect but he did some good deals. Canadian teams seem to suffer in the management department for some reason, I'm wondering if its because of the media and culture? Causing them to speed up rebuilds like the sens did to try and compete and keep there fan base happy.

 

[um]

Or you Resign Marner, the primary playmaker for your 69 goal scoring Center, wait a year get Tavares off the books, focus on drafting and developing talent or make smart trades to improve your team.

Look at Vancouver, Alvin rebuilt that team in a year to be a contender, I can see the leafs capable of doing that, you just need Treveling to be innovative and creative.

It's an option, just not one that has worked out before.

 

[thegazelle]

Coaching has never been the issue with the leafs, the issue has been Management bring in players that do not fit the system they play, you guys literally have one guy who can move the puck, that's an issue, they need to start playing the young guys and see what they have, a guy like Robertson is probably going to be a good young cheap second liner for a while that's a start that's cheap depth.


Holland gets a raw deal in Edmonton, I feel like he's done a better job than Dubas did in toronto, he wasn't perfect but he did some good deals. Canadian teams seem to suffer in the management department for some reason, I'm wondering if its because of the media and culture? Causing them to speed up rebuilds like the sens did to try and compete and keep there fan base happy.

Good points.

With the Leafs, even though I am not a fan in the least, playing guys like Robertson, Knies, and Woll on a regular basis in high pressure situations will both help these good potential guys develop but also provide a solid second option with the core. Or why not mix some of the young guys with the Core and experiment.

The Leafs do have some albatross contracts they need to likely wait out, but even then, who's to say they won't just rinse and spin the same cycle again, as long as the same management is in place. I've always said the Leafs' issue is a culture issue, which bleeds into all facets of the operation. Wanting quick results, or changing some optics is not going to yield lasting change of trajectory.

Regarding Canadian teams and placating fan bases - I don't blame the teams at all to a degree. We've been cup-starved for decades and certainly I think most if not all the teams get that. How to get there, however, is up for debate, and unfortunately, quick and dirty is not really the best way to go. No one likes to take their time and do things slow, methodically and properly nowadays. Corporations are not immune to this mentality.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Good points.

With the Leafs, even though I am not a fan in the least, playing guys like Robertson, Knies, and Woll on a regular basis in high pressure situations will both help these good potential guys develop but also provide a solid second option with the core. Or why not mix some of the young guys with the Core and experiment.

The Leafs do have some albatross contracts they need to likely wait out, but even then, who's to say they won't just rinse and spin the same cycle again, as long as the same management is in place. I've always said the Leafs' issue is a culture issue, which bleeds into all facets of the operation. Wanting quick results, or changing some optics is not going to yield lasting change of trajectory.

Regarding Canadian teams and placating fan bases - I don't blame the teams at all to a degree. We've been cup-starved for decades and certainly I think most if not all the teams get that. How to get there, however, is up for debate, and unfortunately, quick and dirty is not really the best way to go. No one likes to take their time and do things slow, methodically and properly nowadays. Corporations are not immune to this mentality.

I think the Jets are the best Canadian team at drafting and devleopment, I wish the Sens had just stayed the course instead of making the Chychrun and Debrincat trades I feel like that set them back,