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Blue Jays Discussion: Manoah gets the Halladay treatment (optioned to rookie-ball to try and fix him)

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So Manoah gets sent down which I'm not arguing about, but Kikuchi last year wasn't sent down after he asked to be sent down :laugh:
 
Eyedea said:
100% this is not an issue that can be fixed through reps at a lower level (AAA). This is something they need to properly evaluate and correct through simulated events without further destroying his confidence. Mechanics, release points, managing the pitch clock, but most importantly a mental reset.
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Yeah. I don't think he's going to be back anytime soon.
 
ChuckNorris4Cup said:
So Manoah gets sent down which I'm not arguing about, but Kikuchi last year wasn't sent down after he asked to be sent down :laugh:
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Kikuchi's meltdown wasn't as bad as this.

He was obviously far from a positive but his problem was he kept hanging pitches.

Manoah's meltdown from as far we can tell is a complete and total collapse. Stuff isn't there, conditioning isn't there and then the mental aspect also went down the shitter.
 
trellaine201 said:
What determines if a player needs to pass through waivers to be sent down? I would have assumed he would have to clear waivers? Thanks
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Minor League Options | Glossary | MLB.com

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Minor League Options

Definition

Players on a 40-man roster are given three Minor League "options." An option allows that player to be sent to the Minor Leagues ("optioned") without first being subjected to waivers. Players who are optioned to the Minors are removed from a team's active 26-man roster but remain on the 40-man roster.

A player who is on the 40-man roster but does not open the season on the 26-man roster or the injured list must be optioned to the Minor Leagues. Once an optioned player has spent at least 20 days in the Minors in a given season, he loses one of his options. Only one Minor League option is used per season, regardless of how many times a player is optioned to and from the Minors over the course of a given season. (Players may only be optioned five times per season; after that, it requires outright assignment waivers to assign the player to the Minor Leagues.)

Out-of-options players must be designated for assignment -- which removes them from the 40-man roster -- and passed through outright waivers before being eligible to be sent to the Minors.

Players typically have three option years, but those who have accrued less than five full seasons (including both the Major and Minors) are eligible for a fourth if their three options have been exhausted already. For the purposes of this rule, spending at least 90 days on an active Major League or Minor League roster during a given season counts as one full season. Players also earn a full season if they spend at least 30 days on an active Major League or Minor League roster AND their active-roster and injured-list time amounts to at least 90 days in a given season.

Upon being optioned to the Minor Leagues, a position player must remain there for a minimum of 10 days before he is eligible to be recalled to the Major League roster. For pitchers, the minimum is 15 days. If a player is serving as the 27th man for a doubleheader or replacing a player who has been placed on the injured list, there is no minimum number of days for which the optioned player must remain in the Minors.

A player's option years do not need to be used in succession. Any player with fewer than five years of Major League service time and an option year remaining can be optioned to the Minor Leagues. Players with more than five years of service time must consent to being optioned.
 
Blitzkrug said:
Kikuchi's meltdown wasn't as bad as this.

He was obviously far from a positive but his problem was he kept hanging pitches.

Manoah's meltdown from as far we can tell is a complete and total collapse. Stuff isn't there, conditioning isn't there and then the mental aspect also went down the shitter.
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Alot of fans think that it's the pitch clock that caused all this. I have to disagree with that.

I honestly think it was that WC game against Seattle that did it. I don't think he fully recovered mentally from that. Especially considering his pregame "pressure is what you out in your tires" spiel that he went on.

Him saying that and then getting absolutely torched in the 1st inning is probably the more logical explanation for his implosion.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Also I think Elly De La Cruz might be the most fun player to watch in baseball on day 1 in the bigs lol first hit was 112 off the bat and 7.7 seconds home to 2nd. Just an absolute freak.
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Elly’s fun but he’s no Oneil Cruz. Broke the max EV (122.4) and fastest infield throw (97.8) last year. Yeah I know Winn hit 100 after him but still Oneil is crazy lol.
 
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He needs a nutritionist and a strict diet. Get him on a keto,diet with 18-20 hour fasting a day 4-6 hour eating window, in 2 months he would look and feel a lot better
 
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mikeyz said:
Alot of fans think that it's the pitch clock that caused all this. I have to disagree with that.

I honestly think it was that WC game against Seattle that did it. I don't think he fully recovered mentally from that. Especially considering his pregame "pressure is what you out in your tires" spiel that he went on.

Him saying that and then getting absolutely torched in the 1st inning is probably the more logical explanation for his implosion.
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Who was the opening day starter last year ?
 
I haven't heard one way or another whether Manoah has lost velocity and/or movement. If either or both of those things are the case, this treatment is a bandaid for some other inevitability to do with shoulder/elbow issues. I'm still not sure that wasn't actually what happened with Halladay all those many years ago and he both self-healed and adjusted his delivery to a motion that promoted durability.
 
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Manoah went from 129 IP in 2021.
to
196 IP plus playoffs in 2022.

An important baseball strategy is to never increase that many innings in one season.
Jays broke a cardinal rule of development.

We always hear about "Shutting a guy down" specifically for situations like this.
Now because the Jays were in a penant race and Monoah was going so well the Jays were tempted and in fact smashed the innings limit he would have had set for him.

There are other ways to limit innings mid-season. Pull guys after 5 innings, skip a start.
Jays brain trust thought they were smarter than everyone else and are paying for it today.

Manoah was probably physically and mentally drained after his great season.
He isn't the fitest guy to begin with and it looks like he just put his feet up and rolled into camp. This should have been a priority to build him back up.

And finally a pitch clock where Manoah was one of the slowest pitchers last year in MLB having to adapt, low fitness, tired arm and mind all adds up to what we have today.

He will be off to a boot camp where he will get his mental and physical reset and he will come back eventually the pitcher he was destined to be.
 
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