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Blue Jays Discussion: Manoah gets the Halladay treatment (optioned to rookie-ball to try and fix him)

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I think sending Biggio down to Triple A for a good chunk of the season is something that needs to be done now. Call up Spencer Horwitz since he's doing well and has a left handed bat.
 
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It's incredible the difference between defensive metrics.

OAA and DRS agree that Kiermaier is having a heck of a season, but Varsho is below average in OAA and 3rd in DRS for OF.

Chapman is mid pack in OAA and 2nd in baseball in DRS.

Merrifield is one of the worst DRS 2B and above average in OAA (I believe that the difference is based on how they assign blame for DPs that don't get turned because DP rating is Bo and Chapman's biggest flaw in OAA. The eye test keeps telling me that our 2B have struggled with turning DPs when it isn't Espinal there (Clement would provide similar value).

If you want to see something fugly, look at Varsho's defensive numbers. All of the UZR components are positive, but he gets a negative defensive score because his OAA is negative. Somehow, catching 1% less plays on balls hit to him that Statcast deems catchable outweighs all of the DRS components.
 
10th place in the AL

Disgusting. Unacceptable. Garbage. However you wanna slice it this team is a failure so far.
 
Bjindaho said:
It's incredible the difference between defensive metrics.

OAA and DRS agree that Kiermaier is having a heck of a season, but Varsho is below average in OAA and 3rd in DRS for OF.

Chapman is mid pack in OAA and 2nd in baseball in DRS.

Merrifield is one of the worst DRS 2B and above average in OAA (I believe that the difference is based on how they assign blame for DPs that don't get turned because DP rating is Bo and Chapman's biggest flaw in OAA. The eye test keeps telling me that our 2B have struggled with turning DPs when it isn't Espinal there (Clement would provide similar value).

If you want to see something fugly, look at Varsho's defensive numbers. All of the UZR components are positive, but he gets a negative defensive score because his OAA is negative. Somehow, catching 1% less plays on balls hit to him that Statcast deems catchable outweighs all of the DRS components.
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Does positioning in the field have anything to do with it?
 
It should be noted that FanGraphs glossary appears to be outdated, because when I look at Def, it says that it uses UZR, but it actually uses OAA for OF.

Here is an article from Craig Edwards on OAA vs DRS:
blogs.fangraphs.com

Statcast’s Outs Above Average and UZR

Outs Above Average is very promising but needs to go a little further.
blogs.fangraphs.com blogs.fangraphs.com

I found an article from when they updated DRS in 2020 and did find that they changed the formula for IF so that a DP ball in broken up to both players involved (whereas UZR and OAA primarily make DP balls the responsibility of the player the ball was hit to, so a slower transition at 2nd reflects poorly on Bichette and Chapman.

I cannot find any analysis of OAA vis-à-vis ballpark, but if you look at disparity between DRS and OAA, you will see a trend with corner outfielders in Oakland, Texas, and Toronto having huge gaps.

Basically, one evaluates how well you are defending your position and the other attempts to evaluate how good you are at defending in general (with no regard for things like being called off) using percentages for each individual play.
 
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It does seem like OAA does not take into account that the "missed catch" could be an instance of another player calling them off. Merrifield has posted good UZR numbers in his SSS in LF this year, but has been negatively hit by OAA (-3). I've noticed on a few occasions Varsho/Kiermaier calling him off after having travelled a substantial amount of distance into left field to make a catch. It looks great on their CF numbers while it destroys Whit's LF numbers. Same goes for Varsho in LF and Kiermaier in CF.

There's also the problem with 1Bs. Vladdy's defensive efforts aren't recognized because OAA doesn't track the player making the out. All of those stretches to save a throw from Bo or other infielders are amiss when evaluating his defence.
 
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Bjindaho said:
It's incredible the difference between defensive metrics.

OAA and DRS agree that Kiermaier is having a heck of a season, but Varsho is below average in OAA and 3rd in DRS for OF.

Chapman is mid pack in OAA and 2nd in baseball in DRS.

Merrifield is one of the worst DRS 2B and above average in OAA (I believe that the difference is based on how they assign blame for DPs that don't get turned because DP rating is Bo and Chapman's biggest flaw in OAA. The eye test keeps telling me that our 2B have struggled with turning DPs when it isn't Espinal there (Clement would provide similar value).

If you want to see something fugly, look at Varsho's defensive numbers. All of the UZR components are positive, but he gets a negative defensive score because his OAA is negative. Somehow, catching 1% less plays on balls hit to him that Statcast deems catchable outweighs all of the DRS components.
Click to expand...

Where is the DP values for OAA? I wasn't aware that they've updated the stat to include the second out.
 
This team is just playing dumb baseball. That's a shared responsibility between the players for execution and coaches for preparation.
 
Eyedea said:
Where is the DP values for OAA? I wasn't aware that they've updated the stat to include the second out.
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I can't find anything to say one way or another.

The issue that I keep running into is that I can't find anything other than DP rating that our left side of the IF is bad at.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
This is still a 95 to 100 win team. A bad month doesn’t change a thing for me. Sorry if the negative Nancies hate my opinion.
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95 seems doable. 69-42 record would be required to hit that number as of 3 days ago, Tough, but certainly not impossible

100 wins needs 74-37. The team would basically have to play like they did to open the year the rest of the way. That doesn't seem sustainable for anybody. Shit even the Yankees cooled off majorly after their white hot start last year.
 
This team will struggle to even make the WC team. Predict Ross is definitely in year and James Click takes over.
 
It is rather funny how Target is conspiring to influence children's self identity when we've already been doing this for millennia. But I also see how there's an overrepresentation of the LGBTQ+ community in the media over the last decade. It's been a pretty massive pendulum swing in television trying to overcorrect the stereotypical representation found in the previous era. NoHo Hank is still one of the best characters in television history.

But Bass is... not doing himself any favours off the field. At least he's pitching well this month.
 
Knowing that Elly De La Cruz is on his way up soon for the Reds, I wonder if the Jays would be in on India. He's not a particularly good fielder but would be a substantial upgrade offensively at 2B.
 
Discoverer said:
My opinion is that his opinions are in line with other bigoted assholes, and that he may in fact be a bigoted asshole.
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Bigot for his opinion? Doesn’t fit the narrative right so let’s call him a bigot. Is target/bud light a bigot company for pushing gay sexuality amongst children?
 
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