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Blue Jays Discussion: Manoah gets the Halladay treatment (optioned to rookie-ball to try and fix him)

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Ernie Clement is only 27.

If he suddenly has figured things out, we could finally have our own Gio Urshela story (he was the same age when he joined the Yankees)
 
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Is Vladdy just not the superstar we thought he was going to be? Don’t get me wrong he’s good. He’s no game changer though. He’s not Aaron Judge level. If you take out 2021, he’s not even great. He’s. .269 hitter. His great year is looking more and more like an outlier
 
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Whit Merrifield was also 27 when he broke into the majors. Clement likely won't hit for as much power but the speed, bat control, and versatility play. Even if he brings current Steven Kwan type production that's a W on the bench
 
shaner89 said:
Is Vladdy just not the superstar we thought he was going to be? Don’t get me wrong he’s good. He’s no game changer though. He’s not Aaron Judge level. If you take out 2021, he’s not even great. He’s. .269 hitter. His great year is looking more and more like an outlier
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At the same age Vladdy is now, Judge was just entering the league and striking out 44% of the time and hitting below the mendoza line. Vladdy's current trajectory is very much in that Freeman tier of player. It's harder to really be that perennial MVP guy at 1B unless you go nuclear like Pujols, but he's still one of the best hitters in the league.
 
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Vladdy is still a top hitter in baseball, the current version of him falls below the truly top tier in the league and the thing is in baseball terms he is still young. If you were to judge him right now he is probably falling short of the generational bat talk he had as a prospect though. But then you look at his savant page.....and this is the exact same as last year you come away thinking he is a mechanical adjustment away from being that generational bat. But that adjustment needs to actually happen at some point we can't be sitting here talking about it for 5 years lol
 
Yeah Vladdy is a fresh 24, with really only 2 full seasons in the MLB, three if you want to count his rookie year.

Plus Covid year/years could've ruined somethings for him.
 
Vladdy: career 135 wRC+, 10.1 fWAR, 112 HR, runner up in the AL MVP race, a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove. (And because some people don't seem to know any other stats, he has a higher career batting average than Aaron Judge)

Judge at the same age Vladdy is now: 1.5 months away from making his major league debut.
 
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shaner89 said:
Is Vladdy just not the superstar we thought he was going to be? Don’t get me wrong he’s good. He’s no game changer though. He’s not Aaron Judge level. If you take out 2021, he’s not even great. He’s. .269 hitter. His great year is looking more and more like an outlier
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Probably still need to open the vault to keep him though.
 
trellaine201 said:
Probably still need to open the vault to keep him though.
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How much though? He plays first base, He plays it very well, but thats not exactly a premium position.

The game is full of horrible long contracts. I don't think the Jays should participate, because eventually Rogers will tighten the purse strings. I never envisioned this team being at the cusp of the luxury tax, but here they are. It won't last long.
 
Jays before yesterday’s game;
wRC+: 106 (10th)
fWAR: 7.3 (8th)

After last night’s game:
wRC+: 111 (6th)
fWAR: 8.7 (5th)
 
MK78 said:
How much though? He plays first base, He plays it very well, but thats not exactly a premium position.

The game is full of horrible long contracts. I don't think the Jays should participate, because eventually Rogers will tighten the purse strings. I never envisioned this team being at the cusp of the luxury tax, but here they are. It won't last long.
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He’s also one of the most marketable names in baseball, especially to the Blue Jays (born in Canada, father was an expo).

And in terms of hitting or exceeding the luxury tax, why won’t it last long? There’s no evidence that suggests they wouldn’t continue to spend at this level to sustain competitiveness. If the team’s window closes, sure, but I don’t agree with the sentiment that they will forcibly shut that window closed by emptying the coffers.
 
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shaner89 said:
Remember when we had loads of top prospects. Now have 1 and our team sits in last place. Pathetic. Period
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It’s a little early to be looking at the standings, but Boston lost again last night so they’re now tied
 
Draft season is fast approaching. Keith Law has us taking a college hitter.

20. Toronto Blue Jays – Mac Horvath, OF, North Carolina​

This link popped up a few times, as the Blue Jays are the one team in the first round clearly on the Tar Heels slugger. I’ve heard them more with college bats, but they took a high school pitcher first last year, so I doubt that they’re restricting themselves in any way.
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Horvath is a R/R cornier infielder/outfielder hitting .314/.422/.723 with 22 home runs. I have to think this is a for a later pick like Toman as I haven't found another source that has Horvath ranked so high. MLB.com has him 125th on their board.
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
We had Urshela too. Harold Ramirez too. We waived both.
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Those are tough because they're the exact kind of player fans get fed up with in a hurry and complain that they should be cut.

Urshela came out of nowhere (specifically the power) as soon as he left, so that kind of sucks.

Ramirez, though, did nothing until being ok last year and now possibly breaking out (though he's still a bat-only player, so we'll see how long he can sustain it). If they Jays had kept him and given him the 800+ sub-replacement PA he got in his first three years in the majors, people would have been losing their minds.
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
Draft season is fast approaching. Keith Law has us taking a college hitter.



Horvath is a R/R cornier infielder/outfielder hitting .314/.422/.723 with 22 home runs. I have to think this is a for a later pick like Toman as I haven't found another source that has Horvath ranked so high. MLB.com has him 125th on their board.
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TANNER WITT OR WE RIOT
 
Discoverer said:
Those are tough because they're the exact kind of player fans get fed up with in a hurry and complain that they should be cut.

Urshela came out of nowhere (specifically the power) as soon as he left, so that kind of sucks.

Ramirez, though, did nothing until being ok last year and now possibly breaking out (though he's still a bat-only player, so we'll see how long he can sustain it). If they Jays had kept him and given him the 800+ sub-replacement PA he got in his first three years in the majors, people would have been losing their minds.
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Yeah Ramirez reminds me of Melky Cabrera. A guy that can hit for a fairly empty average and isn't really all that valuable unless he gets ahold of some 2Bs/HRs. He's had a massive LA correction this year and is riding a high HR/FB rate (so are a bunch of Tampa guys) through a fairly small sample. Urshela's been decent enough for awhile now that he looks like a second division starter or a solid bench piece but he was terrible when he was with us.

It would obviously be nice if Clement could break out with us but I wouldn't give him too big of a leash. There's always another guy on the cusp that could seize that opportunity (Lantigua, Schneider).
 
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