Blue Jays Discussion: Manoah gets the Halladay treatment (optioned to rookie-ball to try and fix him)

[Blitzkrug]

St. Louis has 3 of them on the roster already between Contreras, Knizner and that dude they just called up yesterday.

I'm no roster construction guru, but somehow i don't think adding more catchers will fix the problem...they're more than welcome to try though!

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[Blitzkrug]

He's a Boras client. Accept the fact he's likely gone in the winter and just enjoy the ride.

No different than Semien in 2021. Even in the production in the sense Chappy had never really hit the ball this well before. Good for power/walks but now he's seemingly become better at putting the ball in play too. Can he duplicate this again? Will that hip become an issue again down the road?

Unlike when Semien went to free agency, the market is really, really thin this winter outside of him and Shohei. Chapman likely gets a massive bag because of it.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[phillipmike]

And what do we do at catcher for all the off days Kirk needs?

Find another catcher. I’m a big Jansen supporter but he has a year left and unless he takes a huge discount, I can’t see use retaining him. I don’t mind using him to fill other needs. Let’s not pretend his 0.0 WAR isn’t replaceable

Grandal on an expiring isn’t a bad option consider we may lineup well with the White Sox in trade as they need a long term 2B. Biggio or Lopez?

 

[canucksfan]

Vladdy missed two games and Belt fills in for him quite easily. Not worried about Belt. He has wRC of 92 and that includes his ugly first few games.

One player I am still worried about is Manoah. He’s expected to be a top level starter and other than the Yanks game, he hasn’t pitched well.

 

[Discoverer]

Find another catcher. I’m a big Jansen supporter but he has a year left and unless he takes a huge discount, I can’t see use retaining him. I don’t mind using him to fill other needs. Let’s not pretend his 0.0 WAR isn’t replaceable

Grandal on an expiring isn’t a bad option consider we may lineup well with the White Sox in trade as they need a long term 2B. Biggio or Lopez?

You don't need to replace his 0 WAR from April, you have to replace the multiple WAR he's likely to be worth the rest of the season.

There's no way they're moving him.

 

[phillipmike]

You don't need to replace his 0 WAR from April, you have to replace the multiple WAR he's likely to be worth the rest of the season.

There's no way they're moving him.

I know they are not. Just throwing out trade ideas. I know it’s not going to happen.

 

[Hoverhand]

I SUPPOSE if you twisted my arm, I could accept Nolan Gorman as a Blue Jay.

 

[phillipmike]

I SUPPOSE if you twisted my arm, I could accept Nolan Gorman as a Blue Jay.

Yeah it makes no sense that this works on the site.

I would jump all over this, tremendous value.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Gongshow in St. Louis continues;



Still makes me laugh while Contreras hasn't ever been known for his game calling, the failures of the pitching, pitching coaches and essentially the front office are all being piled on him.

 

[red devil]

 

[canucksfan]

Ugh

 

[BertCorbeau]

Spilled my beer watching this

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Ugh

Trade sucks but Frasso is likely a pen arm. He's nearly 25 and hasn't pitched more than 60 innings a season in college or pros

 

[Bjindaho]

One trade the Blue Jays likely wish they had a do-over on

Looking back at the Blue Jays trade with the Brewers in 2021 that they probably wish they could do over again.

jaysjournal.com

It's annoying when people write things like this.

Rowdy was rocking a 62 wRC+ and had no options left when he was moved (and the Jays actually needed the DH spot for Springer who was returning from injury but couldn't play the OF at the time). Since Rowdy has moved, 2023 is the only time that the Jays' DH spot hasn't outhit Rowdy (and Belt is starting to come to life).

Richards was an upgrade to the pen, because the guys that were being thrown out there at the time were below replacement level.

 

[Discoverer]

One trade the Blue Jays likely wish they had a do-over on

Looking back at the Blue Jays trade with the Brewers in 2021 that they probably wish they could do over again.

jaysjournal.com

It's annoying when people write things like this.

Rowdy was rocking a 62 wRC+ and had no options left when he was moved (and the Jays actually needed the DH spot for Springer who was returning from injury but couldn't play the OF at the time). Since Rowdy has moved, 2023 is the only time that the Jays' DH spot hasn't outhit Rowdy (and Belt is starting to come to life).

Richards was an upgrade to the pen, because the guys that were being thrown out there at the time were below replacement level.

Yeah, I've always been a big Rowdy fan, but he has a 112 wRC+ since he was traded, and the Jays have gotten a 127 wRC+ from DH in that time. Another solid LH bat would have been nice last year, and being able to spend a few million extra somewhere else instead of signing Belt would have helped too, but we're also only a month into the season, so...

Also, Richards has been a solid contributor to the ben so far this year.

 

[Eyedea]

Yeah it makes no sense that this works on the site.

View attachment 704748

I would jump all over this, tremendous value.

Can Gorman even field a position?

Love Jano and I expect him to get extended for a fairly modest price.

 

[MS]

One trade the Blue Jays likely wish they had a do-over on

Looking back at the Blue Jays trade with the Brewers in 2021 that they probably wish they could do over again.

jaysjournal.com

It's annoying when people write things like this.

Rowdy was rocking a 62 wRC+ and had no options left when he was moved (and the Jays actually needed the DH spot for Springer who was returning from injury but couldn't play the OF at the time). Since Rowdy has moved, 2023 is the only time that the Jays' DH spot hasn't outhit Rowdy (and Belt is starting to come to life).

Richards was an upgrade to the pen, because the guys that were being thrown out there at the time were below replacement level.

Yeah, I've always been a big Rowdy fan, but he has a 112 wRC+ since he was traded, and the Jays have gotten a 127 wRC+ from DH in that time. Another solid LH bat would have been nice last year, and being able to spend a few million extra somewhere else instead of signing Belt would have helped too, but we're also only a month into the season, so...

Also, Richards has been a solid contributor to the ben so far this year.

I don't disagree in general but the way they rotated star players through the DH spot last year inflated the numbers at that position while giving lots of extra ABs to guys like Crapia in the OF and Biggio at 1B. If Tellez is a regular DH, the star regulars are in the field more and the overall numbers at other positions go up.

But I agree the overall impact isn't significant. I just regret that trade because I *liked* Tellez and loved cheering for him and to me that's an important part of being a fan.

 

[Bjindaho]

I don't disagree in general but the way they rotated star players through the DH spot last year inflated the numbers at that position while giving lots of extra ABs to guys like Crapia in the OF and Biggio at 1B. If Tellez is a regular DH, the star regulars are in the field more and the overall numbers at other positions go up.

But I agree the overall impact isn't significant. I just regret that trade because I *liked* Tellez and loved cheering for him and to me that's an important part of being a fan.

I like Tellez, but the rotating was part of keeping guys healthy. If Tellez plays full-time DH, Springer and Kirk play less games.

We essentially used Springer as a full-time DH in 2021, split it between Kirk/Springer in 2022, and have used Belt/Vlad this year.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't disagree in general but the way they rotated star players through the DH spot last year inflated the numbers at that position while giving lots of extra ABs to guys like Crapia in the OF and Biggio at 1B. If Tellez is a regular DH, the star regulars are in the field more and the overall numbers at other positions go up.

But I agree the overall impact isn't significant. I just regret that trade because I *liked* Tellez and loved cheering for him and to me that's an important part of being a fan.

That makes sense. But at the same time, having the DH spot available for guys to rotate through was part of the plan, wasn't it?

 

[MS]

I like Tellez, but the rotating was part of keeping guys healthy. If Tellez plays full-time DH, Springer and Kirk play less games.

We essentially used Springer as a full-time DH in 2021, split it between Kirk/Springer in 2022, and have used Belt/Vlad this year.

That makes sense. But at the same time, having the DH spot available for guys to rotate through was part of the plan, wasn't it?

Like I said, I mostly agree and I think the rotating DH thing was a good idea. And I don't think Tellez was a huge loss.

But it isn't as simple as 'we got a 127 OPS+ out of the DH spot and Tellez has a 117 OPS+ since the trade so he would have contributed nothing'.

- Tellez is playing every day against lefties in Milwaukee (and not well) which wouldn't have happened in Toronto, so his numbers would likely be better in more limited ABs as a Jay.
- if they have Tellez and don't do the rotating DH thing, he isn't forcing Guerrero and Springer and Kirk out of the lineup (outside of when Springer couldn't play the OF), he's forcing out Tapia/Biggio/Moreno etc. and Kirk would still DH against lefties.
- Tellez would also be playing 1B when Guerrero is out of the lineup and would have out-produced the guys like Biggio that have been used there.

 

[Bjindaho]

Like I said, I mostly agree and I think the rotating DH thing was a good idea. And I don't think Tellez was a huge loss.

But it isn't as simple as 'we got a 127 OPS+ out of the DH spot and Tellez has a 117 OPS+ since the trade so he would have contributed nothing'.

- Tellez is playing every day against lefties in Milwaukee (and not well) which wouldn't have happened in Toronto, so his numbers would likely be better in more limited ABs as a Jay.
- if they have Tellez and don't do the rotating DH thing, he isn't forcing Guerrero and Springer and Kirk out of the lineup (outside of when Springer couldn't play the OF), he's forcing out Tapia/Biggio/Moreno etc. and Kirk would still DH against lefties.
- Tellez would also be playing 1B when Guerrero is out of the lineup and would have out-produced the guys like Biggio that have been used there.

Tellez was about to be sent down at which point he would have been claimed on waivers. Toronto needed the DH spot for Springer at the time and Rowdy was struggling.

In 2022, 91 games at DH were played by Springer or Kirk. Keep in mind that both guys would have been out of the lineup if not DHing (Kirk wouldn't have caught more and Springer's body couldn't handle more OF duties).

The next guy BTW was Guerrero at 32 who was replaced by Biggio and his 97wRC+(13 points lower than Tellez last year).

 

[Blitzkrug]

I for one, am shocked.

 

[Dr.Funk]