Confirmed with Link: Mann, Bowness (not that one) hired as AGM

[BloodRedArmy]

As opposed to my usual? Hehe

Haha. I mean the general rule of being aggressive on these boards. I don' think we've ever had the pleasure, tbh.

 

[God Says No]

Draft picks being good, especially gems in the late rounds.

Check the percentages round by round for players that play 200 games, we’re a pretty good drafting team.

Are we? Seems like we're slightly above average, but nothing amazing.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Are we? Seems like we're slightly above average, but nothing amazing.

depends on who you ask and how you measure. The Athletic did one where the Sens were bottom 3rd looking at it a couple different ways.

Are we? Seems like we're slightly above average, but nothing amazing.

depends on who you ask, over what period and how you measure. The Athletic did one using drafts (2005-2016) where the Sens were bottom 3rd looking at it a couple different ways.

 

[Micklebot]

Are we? Seems like we're slightly above average, but nothing amazing.

It really depends on what timeframe you look at.

Muckler years were terrible, he bet on russians and lost big, also misses in the first

Murray from 2006-2011, very good, some home runs in Karlsson, Zibanejad (eventually) Hoffman and Stone, along with a slew of very good picks with guys like Lehner, Silfverburg, Pageau

2012-2014 Very, very bad... Ceci is the best player we drafted in those 3 years. You could add on 2015 and 2016 to this period, you'd get Chabot who is a homerun, but not much else of significance.

2017 was a good year aside from our 1st, Batherson and Formenton are great, and we only had 2 picks

2018 to present is a bit early to tell. Have a hit with Tkachuk and Stutzle, some likely hits with Pinto and Sanderson, and some promising players with JBD, Thomson, Sokolov, Greig ect.

I think if you looked at 2012-2017, you'd be middle of the pack. If you start with 2015 we look pretty good.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It really depends on what timeframe you look at.

Muckler years were terrible, he bet on russians and lost big, also misses in the first

Murray from 2006-2011, very good, some home runs in Karlsson, Zibanejad (eventually) Hoffman and Stone, along with a slew of very good picks with guys like Lehner, Silfverburg, Pageau

2012-2014 Very, very bad... Ceci is the best player we drafted in those 3 years. You could add on 2015 and 2016 to this period, you'd get Chabot who is a homerun, but not much else of significance.

2017 was a good year aside from our 1st, Batherson and Formenton are great, and we only had 2 picks

2018 to present is a bit early to tell. Have a hit with Tkachuk and Stutzle, some likely hits with Pinto and Sanderson, and some promising players with JBD, Thomson, Sokolov, Greig ect.

I think if you looked at 2012-2017, you'd be middle of the pack. If you start with 2015 we look pretty good.

2015 Draft

um.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	18	1	Thomas Chabot	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	313	42	146	188	150
2015 Entry	21	1	Colin White	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	224	36	62	98	91
2015 Entry	36	2	Gabriel Gagne	R	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	48	2	Filip Chlapik	C	Charlottetown Islanders [QMJHL]	57	5	6	11	18
2015 Entry	107	4	Christian Wolanin	D	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]	70	6	14	20	16
2015 Entry	109	4	Filip Ahl	L	HV71 Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	139	5	Christian Jaros	D	Lulea Jrs. (Sweden)	94	1	13	14	37
2015 Entry	199	7	Joey Daccord	G	Cushing Academy (Mass. H.S.)	14	0	0	0	0

2015 is considered by some as the best draft class of the last decade
We currently have Thomas Chabot to show for it.
Chabot was an excellent pick.
White was good at the time although many preferred Boeser or Konecny. We know how that pick turned out.
Traded up for Gagne. Bust The next pick off the board was Carlo.
Chlapik people liked but the next pick off the board was Roope Hintz
Wolanin showed some promise pre-injury and Filip Ahl.. both could have been Mathieu Joseph and Ethan Bear or Conor Garland
Jaros could have been Troy Terry
Joey OK .. Most everyone liked went in expansion. Still working on carving out a #2 NHL goalie role.

 

[Tuna99]

2015 Draft

um.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	18	1	Thomas Chabot	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	313	42	146	188	150
2015 Entry	21	1	Colin White	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	224	36	62	98	91
2015 Entry	36	2	Gabriel Gagne	R	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	48	2	Filip Chlapik	C	Charlottetown Islanders [QMJHL]	57	5	6	11	18
2015 Entry	107	4	Christian Wolanin	D	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]	70	6	14	20	16
2015 Entry	109	4	Filip Ahl	L	HV71 Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	139	5	Christian Jaros	D	Lulea Jrs. (Sweden)	94	1	13	14	37
2015 Entry	199	7	Joey Daccord	G	Cushing Academy (Mass. H.S.)	14	0	0	0	0

2015 is considered by some as the best draft class of the last decade
We currently have Thomas Chabot to show for it.
Chabot was an excellent pick.
White was good at the time although many preferred Boeser or Konecny. We know how that pick turned out.
Traded up for Gagne. Bust The next pick off the board was Carlo.
Chlapik people liked but the next pick off the board was Roope Hintz
Wolanin showed some promise pre-injury and Filip Ahl.. both could have been Mathieu Joseph and Ethan Bear or Conor Garland
Jaros could have been Troy Terry
Joey OK .. Most everyone liked went in expansion. Still working on carving out a #2 NHL goalie role.

Gagne was such a horrible pick, no hockey sense whatsoever. Guy was as close to not having registrable hockey brain waves as I’ve seen

 

[Micklebot]

2015 Draft

um.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	18	1	Thomas Chabot	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	313	42	146	188	150
2015 Entry	21	1	Colin White	C	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	224	36	62	98	91
2015 Entry	36	2	Gabriel Gagne	R	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	48	2	Filip Chlapik	C	Charlottetown Islanders [QMJHL]	57	5	6	11	18
2015 Entry	107	4	Christian Wolanin	D	Muskegon Lumberjacks [USHL]	70	6	14	20	16
2015 Entry	109	4	Filip Ahl	L	HV71 Jrs. (Sweden)
2015 Entry	139	5	Christian Jaros	D	Lulea Jrs. (Sweden)	94	1	13	14	37
2015 Entry	199	7	Joey Daccord	G	Cushing Academy (Mass. H.S.)	14	0	0	0	0

2015 is considered by some as the best draft class of the last decade
We currently have Thomas Chabot to show for it.
Chabot was an excellent pick.
White was good at the time although many preferred Boeser or Konecny. We know how that pick turned out.
Traded up for Gagne. Bust The next pick off the board was Carlo.
Chlapik people liked but the next pick off the board was Roope Hintz
Wolanin showed some promise pre-injury and Filip Ahl.. both could have been Mathieu Joseph and Ethan Bear or Conor Garland
Jaros could have been Troy Terry
Joey OK .. Most everyone liked went in expansion. Still working on carving out a #2 NHL goalie role.

I think we did just ok at best in 2015 when you consider the draft class. I mean, it looked really promising for us but Wolanin, Chlapik, Jaros and White all failed to live up to the early hype. Some great players taken right after our picks too, Boeser and Konecny after white, Carlo Cernak and Gagne, Hintz and Greenway right after Chlapik.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think we did just ok at best in 2015 when you consider the draft class. I mean, it looked really promising for us but Wolanin, Chlapik, Jaros and White all failed to live up to the early hype. Some great players taken right after our picks too, Boeser and Konecny after white, Carlo Cernak and Gagne, Hintz and Greenway right after Chlapik.

It looked better on Draft day than it does now.. and you have to wait and see as we are told.

 

[Micklebot]

It looked better on Draft day than it does now.. and you have to wait and see as we are told.

Maybe 2021 draft will be the inverse and 6 years from now we'll be taking about how all these guys came out of nowhere...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Maybe 2021 draft will be the inverse and 6 years from now we'll be taking about how all these guys came out of nowhere...

Lets see how DY+2 goes . DY +1 is not full of promise.

 

[JungleBeat]

The Sens scouting staff is nothing special with Murray and Forsberg gone.

2012 - 2016 was terrible.

 

[God Says No]

It really depends on what timeframe you look at.

Muckler years were terrible, he bet on russians and lost big, also misses in the first

Murray from 2006-2011, very good, some home runs in Karlsson, Zibanejad (eventually) Hoffman and Stone, along with a slew of very good picks with guys like Lehner, Silfverburg, Pageau

2012-2014 Very, very bad... Ceci is the best player we drafted in those 3 years. You could add on 2015 and 2016 to this period, you'd get Chabot who is a homerun, but not much else of significance.

2017 was a good year aside from our 1st, Batherson and Formenton are great, and we only had 2 picks

2018 to present is a bit early to tell. Have a hit with Tkachuk and Stutzle, some likely hits with Pinto and Sanderson, and some promising players with JBD, Thomson, Sokolov, Greig ect.

I think if you looked at 2012-2017, you'd be middle of the pack. If you start with 2015 we look pretty good.

Looking at the Mann/Dorion era. So 2017 on. I found this interesting:

 

[PlayOn]

Looking at the Mann/Dorion era. So 2017 on. I found this interesting:

So if we remove Batherson and Formenton, two picks that are performing extremely well, and if we remove our three top 5 picks, two of whom are excellent already and one who is as can’t miss a prospect as they come, our drafting doesn’t look good?

How many teams look good at drafting if you remove their best five selections since 2017?

This is such a strange way to evaluate a team’s drafting.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I very much appreciate this thoughtful, non-hostile response.

As opposed to my usual? Hehe

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We also do not support our drafted players well once they get to the NHL, especially the dmen.

If management had any idea on how to identify a good dman, they might actually get good vets to help insulate and mentor our young D. Instead they are thrown to the wolves and, if they aren't blue chip prospects, they get eaten alive.

 

[Ouroboros]

About a year ago there was a fairly interesting piece in The Athletic about the best and worst drafting teams between 2005-2016. Ottawa graded out somewhere near the bottom of the league when draft impact was analyzed via GSVA, but fairly high when looking at percentage of picks who played at least one game and games played per pick.

Sort of supports the idea that the Senators push a lot of low value roster filler into the league out of necessity.

 

[Ice-Tray]

About a year ago there was a fairly interesting piece in The Athletic about the best and worst drafting teams between 2005-2016. Ottawa graded out somewhere near the bottom of the league when draft impact was analyzed via GSVA, but fairly high when looking at percentage of picks who played at least one game and games played per pick.

Sort of supports the idea that the Senators push a lot of low value roster filler into the league out of necessity.

Also, we drafted really low for a lot of those years and our drafting sucked for many of those years…

We have definitely turned a corner on our drafting, perhaps come full circle since we did a pretty good job for a time…

 

[Micklebot]

About a year ago there was a fairly interesting piece in The Athletic about the best and worst drafting teams between 2005-2016. Ottawa graded out somewhere near the bottom of the league when draft impact was analyzed via GSVA, but fairly high when looking at percentage of picks who played at least one game and games played per pick.

Sort of supports the idea that the Senators push a lot of low value roster filler into the league out of necessity.

That's not at all surprising, you've got a few of the good years of Murray's drafting bookended by the Muckler era and a really poor run from 2012-2016. 2008-2011 was really good for us, but Muckler from 2005-2007 mostly offsets that. I'm not suggesting that it's an unfair timeframe, it just happens to cover two our two worst spans in the history of the club imo (could be worse, they could have started at 2002).

the reality is how we drafted in 2005-2007 has little to do with today's drafting, heck our drafting tendencies from 2008 to 2016 are pretty different from today's. The window you chose to frame an analysis in will really shift the outcome.

Interestingly, the article you're referring to actually had us middle of the pack in GSVA for picks outside the 1st round, though we did get some hits in the first round with Karlsson, Foligno, Zibanejad, and Chabot, it's the rest of our first round picks (O'Brien, Puempel, Noesen, Lee, Cowen, L.Brown, Lazar, White, Ceci) that appear to have sunk us. Twice as many misses as hits in the first from 2005-2016 seems pretty terrible though to be sure I'd have to do the same exercise with all teams.

 

[Micklebot]

Also, we drafted really low for a lot of those years and our drafting sucked for many of those years…

We have definitely turned a corner on our drafting, perhaps come full circle since we did a pretty good job for a time…

We had a league average pick position for that span, they also compared GSVA to expected GSVA for a pick position and while we faired a bit better, we still didn't do well. it's hard to say we turned the corner, 2015 looked like it was going to be one of our best draft classes in franchise history until it wasn't, picks from 2018-present need to play out before we can claim we've turned a corner, though I'm hopeful.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We had a league average pick position for that span, they also compared GSVA to expected GSVA for a pick position and while we faired a bit better, we still didn't do well. it's hard to say we turned the corner, 2015 looked like it was going to be one of our best draft classes in franchise history until it wasn't, picks from 2018-present need to play out before we can claim we've turned a corner, though I'm hopeful.

I kinda meant more along the lines of what you were saying;

Muckler years were bad, Murray years were mostly in low expectation area picks (mid to late 1sts). I’m definitely not arguing that we were great at any point in those years, though we did have a couple home runs.

Recently we have placed higher in the draft order, and seemingly have picked better. This current period looks a lot more like the Johnson era in terms of promising young players, than any other.

Definitely feels like we have turned a corner, or perhaps just hitting the high pick part of the cycle that leads to better options and higher percentage chances of success.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Looking at the Mann/Dorion era. So 2017 on. I found this interesting:

Not sure what he talking about,if you remove Bath and Formenton, Brady has more points and goals than he listed even with those guys removed. What a terrible tweet, if your remove this guy and that guy......, you could do that with every team.

 

[Micklebot]

Not sure what he talking about, Brady has more points and goals than he listed. What a loser post, if your remove this guy and that guy......, you could do that with every team.

outside the top 5 being the key piece you're missing.

Still dumb way to look at it

 

[Golden_Jet]

outside the top 5 being the key piece you're missing.

Still dumb way to look at it

Well at first it says remove Formy and Bath only and the points listed
, the other part is a different tweet
But agree still dumb.

 

[StutzMeister]

So if we remove Batherson and Formenton, two picks that are performing extremely well, and if we remove our three top 5 picks, two of whom are excellent already and one who is as can’t miss a prospect as they come, our drafting doesn’t look good?

How many teams look good at drafting if you remove their best five selections since 2017?

This is such a strange way to evaluate a team’s drafting.

Terrible take...as soon as you use the "IF" word - anything coming after should be dismissed as idle speculation.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Bowness seems very professional and well-spoken. Hopefully he provides some good value to the org.