Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[PuckMunchkin]

Uhhh just look up the big tech layoffs in the last couple months and you’ll see I wasn’t lying.

Like I said, you can’t come up with any reason why this is bad other than you don’t like this management group and want this to be bad and have everyone be on your side. Its really bloody obvious, should try to at least pretend to be objective.

Why would you compare OELs situation to a tech company layoff?

Do you HONESTLY think the situations are similar?

It has nothing to do with liking the management group. Its about managing relations to players and agents. Its about treating players with respect.

I am 110% sure you know this. But are choosing to pretend its not true because of your agenda.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Agreed on the bolded. #11 should only be on the table for a massive return and absolutely they need to be shrewd in UFA.

What Columbus did with Severson was stupid. Signing a Soucy or something for 3-4 years at $3-4 million is probably a good bet.

But there was a lot of worry they’d dump #11 for cap space and that obviously didn’t happen even though it was the easiest/laziest way out. And I haven’t seen much evidence yet that they’re prone to rash stupidity.

You know, I'm open to the idea that Columbus signing Severson wasn't a bad move.

I'm very relieved they did and would have hated if we gave him that contract.

But they're a team that has done a lot of high end drafting and has a high end center coming.

They also occupy a unique position where they've never been taken seriously and never really earned much of it other than 2019.

So if they just become a team that goes to the Conference finals once, that's a victory for them in a way it probably isn't for most teams.

They have been undermined by bad D and last year had a catastrophic season with D injuries so that Gudbranson was their number 1 D at times.

High end forwards develop a lot less without a remotely stout/puck moving D unit to get them the puck.

Getting caved in on possession and feeling like every time you lose the puck it's going to be an icing at best and a goal against at worst is a tough way to develop confidence.

They're going from effectively having Gudbranson on their top pairing to adding Werenski (from injury), and Provorov and Severson which is a very very competent 2nd pairing and may be better than that.

But if you mean for us? Yeah, I would have hated signing Severson to that contract.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

There is 2.5 weeks left before UFA and teams aren’t even allow to talk to UFA la yet. So no I can’t think of any reason why the team need to notify him.
oh no, the team didn’t give him a heads up that he will be getting a one time 20M dollar check. Can you imagine the horror of waking up and finding out you have 20,000,000 in the bank?

It's not a one time cheque. It's paid out over the 8 years.

 

[arttk]

Why would you compare OELs situation to a tech company layoff?

Do you HONESTLY think the situations are similar?

It has nothing to do with liking the management group. Its about managing relations to players and agents. Its about treating players with respect.

I am 110% sure you know this. But are choosing to pretend its not true because of your agenda.

Because letting somebody know in advance they are going to be cut lose doesn’t do anybody any good. Tell him a week or two in advance then what? Like there is nothing to be gained. You keep on saying oh to maintain good relationship. How does that do that? Knowing that a week or two in advance that you will be bought out will do what?

The Canucks made the cut as soon as the window opened, they notified him right away. Hell it’s not like it leaked out and they found out from the leaks. They told them in the morning the window opened up and then they made it happen in the afternoon. that’s as much heads up as you need and want in that situation, just swift efficiency so both parties can move on.

Like I said, you are just bitching for the sake of bitching. You know you don’t have a point to make when you revert to attacking me directly for lying lol. That’s low for you

It's not a one time cheque. It's paid out over the 8 years.

Cap is spread out, from the reports OEL gets a one time check.

Tried google but doesn’t seem like that is outline anywhere. probably in the CBA

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Because letting somebody know in advance they are going to be cut lose doesn’t do anybody any good. Tell him a week or two in advance then what? Like there is nothing to be gained. You keep on saying oh to maintain good relationship. How does that do that? Knowing that a week or two in advance that you will be bought out will do what?

The Canucks made the cut as soon as the window opened, they notified him right away. Hell it’s not like it leaked out and they found out from the leaks. They told them in the morning the window opened up and then they made it happen in the afternoon. that’s as much heads up as you need and want in that situation, just swift efficiency so both parties can move on.

Like I said, you are just bitching for the sake of bitching. You know you don’t have a point to make when you revert to attacking me directly for lying lol. That’s low for you

I've made the point multiple times and you pretend NHL buyouts with players & agents = Someone getting laid off from an IT company...

And I am still 100% sure you know exactly what you are doing.

You did it with the Bruce firing, you did it with Mikheyevs health debacle, Im sure you did it with Doerrie, Im sure you did it with Pearsson's & Dickinson's mismanaged health issues.

It is your agenda.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You know, I'm open to the idea that Columbus signing Severson wasn't a bad move.

I'm very relieved they did and would have hated if we gave him that contract.

But they're a team that has done a lot of high end drafting and has a high end center coming.

They also occupy a unique position where they've never been taken seriously and never really earned much of it other than 2019.

So if they just become a team that goes to the Conference finals once, that's a victory for them in a way it probably isn't for most teams.

They have been undermined by bad D and last year had a catastrophic season with D injuries so that Gudbranson was their number 1 D at times.

High end forwards develop a lot less without a remotely stout/puck moving D unit to get them the puck.

Getting caved in on possession and feeling like every time you lose the puck it's going to be an icing at best and a goal against at worst is a tough way to develop confidence.

They're going from effectively having Gudbranson on their top pairing to adding Werenski (from injury), and Provorov and Severson which is a very very competent 2nd pairing and may be better than that.

But if you mean for us? Yeah, I would have hated signing Severson to that contract.

Columbus (like Detroit, who have sucked for 7 straight years) are on the verge of missing the playoffs for a 4th straight year.....It all comes to a head,and the resilience of the management and fanbase starts to crack (away from the rebuild)..Then you start seeing deals like the Severson deals.

Our market is no different.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Because letting somebody know in advance they are going to be cut lose doesn’t do anybody any good. Tell him a week or two in advance then what? Like there is nothing to be gained. You keep on saying oh to maintain good relationship. How does that do that? Knowing that a week or two in advance that you will be bought out will do what?

The Canucks made the cut as soon as the window opened, they notified him right away. Hell it’s not like it leaked out and they found out from the leaks. They told them in the morning the window opened up and then they made it happen in the afternoon. that’s as much heads up as you need and want in that situation, just swift efficiency so both parties can move on.

Like I said, you are just bitching for the sake of bitching. You know you don’t have a point to make when you revert to attacking me directly for lying lol. That’s low for you


Cap is spread out, from the reports OEL gets a one time check.

Tried google but doesn’t seem like that is outline anywhere. probably in the CBA

Nah I'm pretty certain they receive it periodically which is part of why it's worth less money to them. If they got it in a lump sump with interest and everything it might be financially almost advantageous.

Think of Bobby Bonilla day in MLB. It's July 1st I think, when he receives his payment and it continues until like 2035.

 

[andora]

The problem is they are not doing anything unique or innovative. They are acting like contender teams act, while not being a contender team. The assets to do this simply are not there. No draft picks, no prospects, no cap space, no players outperforming their contracts.

Boeser's deal is a mistake, but in the big picture is a non issue. He will be off the books in two years. And we were not competing for anything for the duration of his extension anyways. BUT that money could have been used far more efficiently in a number of ways.

Millers contract has far more dire consequences for the long term success of the team.

What type of moves are out there that are unique and innovative? I mean.. there are only so many ways to move players

 

[arttk]

I've made the point multiple times and you pretend NHL buyouts with players & agents = Someone getting laid off from an IT company...

And I am still 100% sure you know exactly what you are doing.

You did it with the Bruce firing, you did it with Mikheyevs health debacle, Im sure you did it with Doerrie, Im sure you did it with Pearsson's & Dickinson's mismanaged health issues.

It is your agenda.

What do you not get? Getting told you are axed is a similar experience regardless of industry. If you tell OEL he is getting bought out a week or two or days earlier you don’t think he’s going to think and stress about it? He’s still losing 1/3 of his pay. You don’t think he’s going to ask his agent to try to salvage it somehow only to eventually get stonewalled by the Nucks because they know they won’t pay any asset to make a trade happen. That’s why you don’t ever give people a heads unless there is a benefit in doing so which in this case there isn’t.

It’s funny to be called out as having an agenda by the guy with an obvious agenda.

You did it with the Bruce firing, you did it with Mikheyevs health debacle, Im sure you did it with Doerrie, Im sure you did it with Pearsson's & Dickinson's mismanaged health issues.

Oh look who has an agenda here and need evidence to support the agenda.

Lumping in “not giving OEL more heads up about a buyout” with the BB thing is pretty telling about how you feel about this management group.

Nevermind the fact you added Dickinson there because you want to add another line item to make things look worse lol.

 

[bossram]

 

[Nucker101]

Can you explain why the Canucks would let OEL know he is getting bought out long before this? What would it change?

Also it makes perfect sense for you to make something out of this lol.

I wish OEL gave the Canucks the polite courtesy of telling them he sucks worse than most people thought he did. Pretty unclassy of him to just spring that on everyone.

 

[Vector]

Was, coincidentally, just listening to this.

Said if you have a defense built like the Avalanche, Lightning, or Golden Knights then you don't have to rely on a superstar goaltender but if you have a more slight defense like the Panthers then a goalie getting hot is a requirement. Because of Quinn Hughes the Canucks will have to rely on their goaltending rather than a large stout defence. At least in the short term. Wis source wonders if the Canucks want to get in and cause some headaches.

Personally, I don't think the Panthers getting in has changed the Canucks plans at all. The Hronek trade already signaled their intentions for this offseason.

 

[Hit the post]

Why would you compare OELs situation to a tech company layoff?

OEL is like buying a Commodore Amiga *today*. At one time, a cutting age computer with tons of promise. Of course Jethro Bodine paid good money for it two years ago.

 

[arttk]

I wish OEL gave the Canucks the polite courtesy of telling them he sucks worse than most people thought he did. Pretty unclassy of him to just spring that on everyone.

Would be nice if he gave the team a heads up that he will not be blocking shots on the PK last season.

 

[bossram]

Was, coincidentally, just listening to this.

Said if you have a defense built like the Avalanche, Lightning, or Golden Knights then you don't have to rely on a superstar goaltender but if you have a more slight defense like the Panthers then a goalie getting hot is a requirement. Because of Quinn Hughes the Canucks will have to rely on their goaltending rather than a large stout defence. At least in the short term. Wis source wonders if the Canucks want to get in and cause some headaches.

Personally, I don't think the Panthers getting in has changed the Canucks plans at all. The Hronek trade already signaled their intentions for this offseason.

Each of those bluelines are built differently, so it's a bizarre point in the first place, but that's not the main thing here.

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

That's a bad plan.

 

[Hit the post]

Each of those blueline's are built differently, so it's a bizarre point in the first place, but that's not the main thing here.

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

That's a bad plan.

Yup.

1) Florida was first overall in the league (regular season) the season before. Canucks have only been 1st in the league before the season started since like forever
2) Bobo has two Vezina trophies to his name
3) Demko, while awfully good, to my knowledge hasn't been named even as a Vezina finalist once yet

 

[God]

Each of those blueline's are built differently, so it's a bizarre point in the first place, but that's not the main thing here.

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

That's a bad plan.

Would match with Rutherford's initial comments regarding Demko being a franchise goalie, but moreso it fits with Aquilini being a simple-minded man and only remembering bubble Demko. I would hope that the defense is re-built enough where potentially bad Demko play can be masked.

On the other hand we've heard more rumblings from insiders that the Canucks were open to trading Demko, so maybe it isn't the case.

 

[tradervik]

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

Replace "the Canucks" with "Aquilini".

 

[bossram]

Yup.

1) Florida was first overall in the league (regular season) the season before. Canucks have only been 1st in the league before the season started since like forever
2) Bobo has two Vezina trophies to his name
3) Demko, while awfully good, to my knowledge hasn't been named even as a Vezina finalist once yet

If the Canucks were a consistently strong team and were rocking a 58% xG with a sub-100 PDO, then maybe this plan is plausible. But we all know this is laughable.

Would match with Rutherford's initial comments regarding Demko being a franchise goalie, but moreso it fits with Aquilini being a simple-minded man and only remembering bubble Demko. I would hope that the defense is re-built enough where potentially bad Demko play can be masked.

On the other hand we've heard more rumblings from insiders that the Canucks were open to trading Demko, so maybe it isn't the case.

I don't think Rutherford has thought of it this in depth at all. He couldn't even look at the Canucks' CapFriendly page before taking the job.

He has a mandate to compete. He has cap space. He will find his next shiny object to absorb the cap space. That's what he does.

Replace "the Canucks" with "Aquilini".

I think management firmly believes this too.

 

[tradervik]

@bossram: I highly doubt Canucks management believes they can win the cup by squeaking into the playoffs and "getting lucky". Rutherford has clearly stated the team can't rely on hot goaltending.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they believe they have the key pieces to build a team that has a reasonable chance to win the cup and that qualifying for the playoffs is an important early milestone on their roadmap not only because it will make FAQ happy but because it will indicate the team is moving in the right direction.

As a long suffering fan who survived the Benning years, I am not totally convinced but I am willing to see how their plan unfolds before I draw any definitive conclusions. They've made some good moves but they've also made some mistakes and this year we'll get a good indication if they've learned from them and whether their plan is working.

 

[RandV]

Each of those bluelines are built differently, so it's a bizarre point in the first place, but that's not the main thing here.

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

That's a bad plan.

I feel like this gets used way too often here and both today and before was never actually relevant. I don't recall specifically when it was said but I'm assuming this was Benning doing his poor old Gil Gunderson Gil routine: 'aww just give me another chance, we might make the playoffs and then anything can happen!' After another failed season he often found some poor excuse to cover his ass and plead for more time, but I say the concept wasn't relevant for the simple fact that weird covid year aside Benning wasn't capable of building a team that could make the playoffs in the first place. How is 'just get in and anything can happen' relevant when you can't even get in?

Detached from the Canucks and Benning, there's some nuance to overall idea but at different levels.

At the bottom level, "Anything can happen" was Seattle beating Colorado. This doesn't win you the Cup though, as you're going to need to "ach!" 4 times in a row which I don't believe has ever happened before (Calgary almost) and would maybe be like once a century occurrence. But as a team going in with no expectations you don't win the Cup but you still had a great time.

At the Cup level, last season Colorado dominated the regular season and steam rolled the playoffs winning the Cup. Hard to see how you beat that, and lots of discussion here was exactly about that: how do we beat Colorado? Yet these playoffs round 1 is over, the prior winners Colorado and Tampa are out, and the regular season juggernaut Boston is out. In the final 8 only Seattle doesn't belong, for the other 7 teams the chance for a Cup was reasonably open. That's an 'anything can happen' playoffs. While a team can look unbeatable going in every round is chaotic giving a chance for the top tenders to get knocked out opening space for the larger second tier group to step up.

Regardless though, current management is likely never going to build a top tier stacked contender, but they're aiming to build a team that can regularly make the playoffs. Jim Benning was a guy that had been losing the game badly and asking for another chance hoping for a Hail Mary to save him. You don't have to equate the two together.

 

[arttk]

Each of those bluelines are built differently, so it's a bizarre point in the first place, but that's not the main thing here.

I think the Canucks do believe in a "get in and anything can happen" approach if Demko gets hot. The Panthers give them one more misinterpreted data point to think it can happen.

That's a bad plan.

I think we need to snap out of the mentality of let’s not make the playoffs if you are not a contender.

There is nothing wrong to be a consistent playoff team and every season you look at ways to upgrade the roster to get better until you become a contender. Being a consistent playoff teams and having lower picks doesn’t mean you can’t improve over time.

 

[arttk]

I feel like this gets used way too often here and both today and before was never actually relevant. I don't recall specifically when it was said but I'm assuming this was Benning doing his poor old Gil Gunderson Gil routine: 'aww just give me another chance, we might make the playoffs and then anything can happen!' After another failed season he often found some poor excuse to cover his ass and plead for more time, but I say the concept wasn't relevant for the simple fact that weird covid year aside Benning wasn't capable of building a team that could make the playoffs in the first place. How is 'just get in and anything can happen' relevant when you can't even get in?

Detached from the Canucks and Benning, there's some nuance to overall idea but at different levels.

At the bottom level, "Anything can happen" was Seattle beating Colorado. This doesn't win you the Cup though, as you're going to need to "ach!" 4 times in a row which I don't believe has ever happened before (Calgary almost) and would maybe be like once a century occurrence. But as a team going in with no expectations you don't win the Cup but you still had a great time.

At the Cup level, last season Colorado dominated the regular season and steam rolled the playoffs winning the Cup. Hard to see how you beat that, and lots of discussion here was exactly about that: how do we beat Colorado? Yet these playoffs round 1 is over, the prior winners Colorado and Tampa are out, and the regular season juggernaut Boston is out. In the final 8 only Seattle doesn't belong, for the other 7 teams the chance for a Cup was reasonably open. That's an 'anything can happen' playoffs. While a team can look unbeatable going in every round is chaotic giving a chance for the top tenders to get knocked out opening space for the larger second tier group to step up.

Regardless though, current management is likely never going to build a top tier stacked contender, but they're aiming to build a team that can regularly make the playoffs. Jim Benning was a guy that had been losing the game badly and asking for another chance hoping for a Hail Mary to save him. You don't have to equate the two together.

JR has said that in his press conference that in order to be a contender, you need to be a consistent playoff team first. I feel like a lot of fans overlook that part of it and somehow refer back to the Benning idea of make it in and anything can happen.

 

[credulous]

JR has said that in his press conference that in order to be a contender, you need to be a consistent playoff team first. I feel like a lot of fans overlook that part of it and somehow refer back to the Benning idea of make it in and anything can happen.

yeah but you're reversing the arrow of casuality. teams get good and then make the playoffs a lot. they don't make the playoffs a lot and then get good

 

[arttk]

yeah but you're reversing the arrow of casuality. teams get good and then make the playoffs a lot. they don't make the playoffs a lot and then get good

That makes no f***ing sense. Like you said, team gets good and make playoffs. Are you suggesting the Canucks are trying to build a shit team that makes the playoffs? How does a shit team make the playoffs?