Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

" I don't want to use buyouts if we don't have to,” Allvin said after the Canucks missed the Stanley Cup Playoffs for the seventh time in eight seasons. “I don't want to use buyouts that (are) going to affect us in a couple of years when this group is actually, hopefully, taking off. The intention is not using buyouts at this point.”

His comment seemed to contradict what Canucks president Jim Rutherford said in January. Rutherford told reporters that the organization must use all means available to shed contracts and create salary-cap space because “until we move those out, or until they expire, it’s going to be hard to make changes.”

The apparent reversal by Canucks management on Friday, the opening day of the league’s buyout window, may be due to Allvin’s inability so far to trade for cap flexibility by interesting other teams in players like Conor Garland and Brock Boeser without having to retain salary in transactions.

Allvin may not have “intended” to buy out Ekman-Larsson, but he understood the harsh and inescapable reality that there was no other way.

But with Bear injured and veteran Tyler Myers, another player whose contract the Canucks are trying to shed, there is no apparent second pairing in Vancouver.

The cap space created by the Ekman-Larsson buyout should pay for two or three players, including a third-line centre that Allvin and Tocchet have identified as the team’s biggest need.

On Friday, Allvin found the only exit ramp he could on that debilitating contract" Sportsnet.

 

[rypper]

Just link the article instead of writing out a novel.

 

[RandV]

Yeah, I hope they resist the pressure to #DoSomething now that they finally have cap space, if the UFA market is poor and teams are still hard to deal with, I'd rather we go into the season with a big hole on defence and a ton of cap space so that when a smarter deal opens up, like a team falls out of the playoffs, or is trying to race into the playoffs, or has an injury problem, etc and needs to clear cap space and suddenly is desperate, THEN we should strike and get a good defenceman on good terms. It's going to take more than one off season to turn this team around, keep the powder dry for when an actual opportunity opens up instead of performatively doing something to look like they're doing something.

I'm sure current management will have more foresight but with the OEL buyout they've created a prime Benning 'worry about it tomorrow' trap. While we tend to look at the OEL buyout from the view of cap savings, effectively for the cap what we've done is swap a (not including Arizona's cut) $8.25/8.25/8.25/8.25M contract for a $0.15/2.35/4.78/4.78/2.13M(x4) contract.

So the buyout gives us an extra $8M we can blow today on new contracts but in two seasons the OEL cap hit rises from practicaly $0 to close to $5M in years 3 & 4, at a point when we'll need pay raises for Pettersson, Kuzmenko, and Hronek. We'll have relief from other contracts ending and the cap going up in general to manage, but the biggest cap relief is mostly a 1 year deal for today. You could easily see a Jim Benning throwing out big 4 year contracts to Beagles and Sutters then in 2 years not have the cap space to resign Kuzmenko, or something like that.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just link the article instead of writing out a novel.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I originally thought, like some others, that we should just hold onto OEL and see if he can be competent Maatta type for Hronek on the 2nd pairing.

I'm open to the idea that the braintrust knows more than I do and has reason to believe that a rebound wasn't likely.

I also see the point that in terms of being a meritocracy we have had a horrendously overpaid albatross on our roster in Loui and OEL for like 8 years and maybe it was just time for cultural reasons as well.

Add Tocchet and Oel not getting along and the writing was probably on the wall.

With that said, I find myself trepidatious that some July 1st stupidity is coming, or that we might deal the 11th for something that hopefully turns us into a team that loses in the 2nd round.

I think that pick must be protected at almost all costs (barring a K'andre Miller type return) and that this UFA list is poor and requires a lot of shrewdness.

I'm very intrigued and interested, but a little nervous about the next 2 weeks.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I haven't done a deep dive on the status of the Nucks but decided to look at the orgs blueline:

Hughes - ????
????? - Hronek
Brisebois- Myers

In the system:
Rahtbone
Wolanin
Woo
McWard
Johansson
Kudryavtsev

Maybe back: Hirose, Bear, Juulsen, Burroughs

Cap space available: $6.44 mil

Woof. Yes I know there's an offseason to come but yuckers.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I'm sure current management will have more foresight but with the OEL buyout they've created a prime Benning 'worry about it tomorrow' trap. While we tend to look at the OEL buyout from the view of cap savings, effectively for the cap what we've done is swap a (not including Arizona's cut) $8.25/8.25/8.25/8.25M contract for a $0.15/2.35/4.78/4.78/2.13M(x4) contract.

So the buyout gives us an extra $8M we can blow today on new contracts but in two seasons the OEL cap hit rises from practicaly $0 to close to $5M in years 3 & 4, at a point when we'll need pay raises for Pettersson, Kuzmenko, and Hronek. We'll have relief from other contracts ending and the cap going up in general to manage, but the biggest cap relief is mostly a 1 year deal for today. You could easily see a Jim Benning throwing out big 4 year contracts to Beagles and Sutters then in 2 years not have the cap space to resign Kuzmenko, or something like that.

Would have been much better if they had a slew of top prospects coming then instead of contracts going up in value. *sigh* Oh well.

 

[Vector]

I haven't done a deep dive on the status of the Nucks but decided to look at the orgs blueline:

Hughes - ????
????? - Hronek
Brisebois- Myers

In the system:
Rahtbone
Wolanin
Woo
McWard
Johansson
Kudryavtsev

Maybe back: Hirose, Bear, Juulsen, Burroughs

Cap space available: $6.44 mil

Woof. Yes I know there's an offseason to come but yuckers.

You’re missing Hirose (RFA). Wolanin is mostly likely the one tabled for 3rd pairing LD duty but it’ll be probably a competition between quite a few players.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

You’re missing Hirose (RFA). Wolanin is mostly likely the one tabled for 3rd pairing LD duty but it’ll be probably a competition between quite a few players.

I had Hirose in the "maybe back" as he is not signed yet but I am sure he will be. Likely needs time in the AHL.

Two gaping holes there. Not much out there.

 

[arttk]

It makes perfect sense you would not see it as anything negative.

Can you explain why the Canucks would let OEL know he is getting bought out long before this? What would it change?

Also it makes perfect sense for you to make something out of this lol.

 

[Vector]

I had Hirose in the "maybe back" as he is not signed yet but I am sure he will be. Likely needs time in the AHL.

Two gaping holes there. Not much out there.

Hirose is 24 years old. His age, the contract they gave him, and his play last season are all strong indicators that he’ll be given every opportunity to make the team.

 

[arttk]

I haven't done a deep dive on the status of the Nucks but decided to look at the orgs blueline:

Hughes - ????
????? - Hronek
Brisebois- Myers

In the system:
Rahtbone
Wolanin
Woo
McWard
Johansson
Kudryavtsev

Maybe back: Hirose, Bear, Juulsen, Burroughs

Cap space available: $6.44 mil

Woof. Yes I know there's an offseason to come but yuckers.

Probably more like this
Hughes - ????
????? - Hronek
Wolanin - ??????

Poolman and Pearson are going to be LTIRed so you can get 2 D that are 2.5M and 3.25M to fully utilize that LTIR space.

 

[tradervik]

- Mikheyev knee injury
- Bruce firing everyone knew weeks in hand
- Tochet signing everyone knew weeks in hand
- Pearson's health spiraling in to successive surgery after surgery
- Bear trade

Questionable list, IMO. The only one I’ll give you is the Mikheyev injury, which was kind of weird because Seravelli was the only one to report it and no one believed him.

Things that didn’t leak:
- Miller contract
- Horvat trade
- Hronek trade
- OEL buyout

Just to name few.

Such as?

 

[MS]

I originally thought, like some others, that we should just hold onto OEL and see if he can be competent Maatta type for Hronek on the 2nd pairing.

I'm open to the idea that the braintrust knows more than I do and has reason to believe that a rebound wasn't likely.

I also see the point that in terms of being a meritocracy we have had a horrendously overpaid albatross on our roster in Loui and OEL for like 8 years and maybe it was just time for cultural reasons as well.

Add Tocchet and Oel not getting along and the writing was probably on the wall.

With that said, I find myself trepidatious that some July 1st stupidity is coming, or that we might deal the 11th for something that hopefully turns us into a team that loses in the 2nd round.

I think that pick must be protected at almost all costs (barring a K'andre Miller type return) and that this UFA list is poor and requires a lot of shrewdness.

I'm very intrigued and interested, but a little nervous about the next 2 weeks.

Agreed on the bolded. #11 should only be on the table for a massive return and absolutely they need to be shrewd in UFA.

What Columbus did with Severson was stupid. Signing a Soucy or something for 3-4 years at $3-4 million is probably a good bet.

But there was a lot of worry they’d dump #11 for cap space and that obviously didn’t happen even though it was the easiest/laziest way out. And I haven’t seen much evidence yet that they’re prone to rash stupidity.

 

[RandV]

I haven't done a deep dive on the status of the Nucks but decided to look at the orgs blueline:

Hughes - ????
????? - Hronek
Brisebois- Myers

In the system:
Rahtbone
Wolanin
Woo
McWard
Johansson
Kudryavtsev

Maybe back: Hirose, Bear, Juulsen, Burroughs

Cap space available: $6.44 mil

Woof. Yes I know there's an offseason to come but yuckers.

Especially once we free up Myers this is still significantly better than what it was. Hughes was effective with a cheap partner like Schenn to the point of on a poor Canucks dman with a bad blue line played 25:40 a game and finished +15. Hronek in Detroit last season playing the second pair with a $3M vet Olli Maatta played 21:30 a game and finish +8. Replacing those ???'s with an equivalent Schenn/Maatta with the money freed up by OEL and soon Myers should be a manageable task.

What really sunk the blueline is we were paying a $13M cap hit for this two, neither worked paired with Hughes on the top pair when the best partner had an $850K cap hit, neither were able to anchor an effective second pair tandem on their own with another player, and you couldn't even play them together as an effective unit. Like wtf is the coach supposed to do with that?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Can you explain why the Canucks would let OEL know he is getting bought out long before this? What would it change?

Can you think of any reason your self?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Questionable list, IMO. The only one I’ll give you is the Mikheyev injury, which was kind of weird because Seravelli was the only one to report it and no one believed him.

Things that didn’t leak:
- Miller contract
- Horvat trade
- Hronek trade
- OEL buyout


Such as?

Most of those decisions were made on a pretty short notice.

Or do you think the Hronek trade and the Miller contracts were planned months ahead?

OEL buyout seems like another one that was made on a short notice.

 

[God]

nobody spends 20 million like that in an instant. this was always an option they were considering.

 

[sting101]

Go away for a week and this team just keeps digging itself into more holes.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

nobody spends 20 million like that in an instant. this was always an option they were considering.

Well obviously yes they were probably thinking about it the moment they saw OEL skate in Canucks jersey...


Sigh...

 

[God]

Well obviously yes they were probably thinking about it the moment they saw OEL skate in Canucks jersey...


Sigh...

you are trying to fit a narrative of the OEL buyout onto this management group that doesn't exist. you are free to dislike the direction they're taking but you keep pounding a square peg in a round hole in this case.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

you are trying to fit a narrative of the OEL buyout onto this management group that doesn't exist. you are free to dislike the direction they're taking but you keep pounding a square peg in a round hole in this case.

What is the narrative you think I'm going for here?

All I am saying is that the story people are now repeating how nothing leaks from this management is bullshit.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Go away for a week and this team just keeps digging itself into more holes.

I take it that you're not a fan of the buyout..?

 

[me2]

Hirose is 24 years old. His age, the contract they gave him, and his play last season are all strong indicators that he’ll be given every opportunity to make the team.

3 battle with 2 of Horse, Wolanin and Rathbone surviving.

 

[Kryten]

3 battle with 2 of Horse, Wolanin and Rathbone surviving.

Rathbone tops out as an AHLer. Shouldve been moved when he had his good year, or maybe they decide to keep him as a vet in the A