Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Again totally fair opinion. I just think there is more growth for this team... or more room to grow that is. The absolutely need to lose some of these inefficient contracts, and even if they get some back, but some that are fitting what this team needs more.

Its a huge offseason. If its not done right, I think its start over time.

The thing for me is, there are cap inefficiencies on the Canucks roster that are basically unprecedented in NHL history.

Quinn Hughes can drive a high-end, big-minutes top pairing at even strength when paired with the likes of Noah Juulsen ... but can't even keep his head above water when the $6M man Tyler Myers is next to him.

Oliver Ekman-Larsson's play has been surpassed by not one, not two, not three, but FOUR separate AHL callups on the back end. Put another way, OEL isn't even good enough to play in Abbotsford's top 4 with everyone healthy.

There have been comparably bad overpaid defensemen in NHL history (Andrew MacDonald, Rasmus Ristolainen)...but two on the same team?

Minnesota's dead cap from the Parise/Suter buyouts is less of a drag.

The complete vacuum of center depth behind Petey/Miller. Even a guy like Nils Aman taking a marginal step has made a noticeable improvement to that group.

And let's not even get into the PK.

There are so many things about this roster that are atrocious, and one of the things about the modern NHL is that going from "atrocious" to "meh" is actually not that hard. And if you can do that, that can really move the needle.

But yeah, bossram's position is a completely reasonable one to take. Certainly this roster hasn't earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

 

[racerjoe]

Quinn Hughes can drive a high-end, big-minutes top pairing at even strength when paired with the likes of Noah Juulsen ... but can't even keep his head above water when the $6M man Tyler Myers is next to him.

I don't think myers is as bad as we all make him out to be. He really just doesn't fit with Hughes, but he has looked fine with other dmen, and hasn't looked bad the last while except oddly when with Hughes. Either way, all we have been hearing is his contract is very moveable once his bonus is paid, so I really hope and expect him to be gone.

Oliver Ekman-Larsson's play has been surpassed by not one, not two, not three, but FOUR separate AHL callups on the back end. Put another way, OEL isn't even good enough to play in Abbotsford's top 4 with everyone healthy.

He is the easiest Buyout candidate ever. I don't know if FAQ would let them do that, but holly crap its so simple.

If not, I bring him back, hope he is better, but if he is as bad as he has been I sit him. I wouldn't play him. Honestly, I would tell him... you are not an NHL dman and you won't be playing. Pray he would rather go on LTIR. He is easily the hardest thing to move IF FAQ doesn't let you buy him out.

Yes our centre depth isn't that great... but is it really a hard fix? Petey and Miller our two of the best centres out there. top 5 maybe? You bring in a solid 3C and like you said Aman behind him, and its actually pretty good.

Our PK has been terrible for two years, but it has been trending up, and if we do add Hronek (already done) and another top 4 guy it again looks pretty solid.

To me next season is all about putting this team on track. losing the bad money. I think if you do that, you are much better set up.

 

[bossram]

Bear is not a top 4 on a contender. They need to add a shutdown physical dman like Cernak or Carlo to play with Hughes IMO.

I never said the Canucks are or would be a contender next season.

 

[bossram]

Again totally fair opinion. I just think there is more growth for this team... or more room to grow that is. The absolutely need to lose some of these inefficient contracts, and even if they get some back, but some that are fitting what this team needs more.

Its a huge offseason. If its not done right, I think its start over time.

Oh yes, its absolutely a critical offseason. But the last two offseasons have been critical, and they continued to make critical errors across different management regimes.

I usually like to have fun on CapFriendly’s Armchair GM, but with the Canucks, it’s just not fun. The task ahead of Allvin is nigh impossible. To build a roster capable of making noise in the playoffs, he needs to clear off Myers, Garland, and Boeser, while simultaneously adding one (ideally two) top-four defensemen and a high-end 3C. It’s just so implausible it’s hard to imagine a situation where that happens.

When has a team cleared out $17M in cap liabilities (with term) and managed to replace them with more cost-efficient impact players in one offseason? That’s the path to being better than a bubble team.

 

[andora]

Oh yes, its absolutely a critical offseason. But the last two offseasons have been critical, and they continued to make critical errors across different management regimes.

I usually like to have fun on CapFriendly’s Armchair GM, but with the Canucks, it’s just not fun. The task ahead of Allvin is nigh impossible. To build a roster capable of making noise in the playoffs, he needs to clear off Myers, Garland, and Boeser, while simultaneously adding one (ideally two) top-four defensemen and a high-end 3C. It’s just so implausible it’s hard to imagine a situation where that happens.

When has a team cleared out $17M in cap liabilities (with term) and managed to replace them with more cost-efficient impact players in one offseason? That’s the path to being better than a bubble team.

The armchair gm part made me laugh

I think they are looking at two offseasons with this. I think you are bang on with the names you mention but i think you can only focus on a couple maybe 3 due to the severity

I believe they outline their plan of attack based on pearson and poolmans futures first and foremost. I think if either are anywhere likely to playing you look at moving them first. Then focus on boeser.. then myers in september after the bonus (and i just leanred about the september bonus thing - f*** you owner dumb shit)

If poolman and pearson arent expected to play i still think you move pearsons contract and maybe pay to move myers if necessary. Still move boeser. They have to deal with bonuses next year right? So we need to be under 83.5

You can than make small adds like a gaudreau in theory at 3C and a gavrikov depending on price.

I dont think it is remotely possible to move everything they need to as you say in on offseason.. but they gotta go bang for buck this year. Next in season and next off season you look at if moving garland makes sense, poolman again and maybe walking from beauvillier

 

[racerjoe]

Oh yes, its absolutely a critical offseason. But the last two offseasons have been critical, and they continued to make critical errors across different management regimes.

I usually like to have fun on CapFriendly’s Armchair GM, but with the Canucks, it’s just not fun. The task ahead of Allvin is nigh impossible. To build a roster capable of making noise in the playoffs, he needs to clear off Myers, Garland, and Boeser, while simultaneously adding one (ideally two) top-four defensemen and a high-end 3C. It’s just so implausible it’s hard to imagine a situation where that happens.

When has a team cleared out $17M in cap liabilities (with term) and managed to replace them with more cost-efficient impact players in one offseason? That’s the path to being better than a bubble team.

You can't look at the last two offseasons. You just can't group Benning era stuff in with JR. Its just not fair to anyone. Was it important... yeah sure. But it has no bearing on if this offseason is plausible.

Last offseason, was an interesting one. I think they came up short in some spots, and to me made 1 error, and that was signing Boeser (assuming their goal to turn the team around in a retool). This will need to be better, but still not impossible.

I don't think it is that implausible at all. All we have heard for two years is Myers can be moved once his bonus is paid. That move looks to be easy. I think Boeser is moveable in one of two ways. Either with small retention, or if you take back a bad contract. So if you just want to clear space, retain on him to like 5 mil. If not, you take back a contract, and here is where you can be creative. Maybe this bad contract is a your 3C.

I actually don't think the team needs to move Garland. I think they can if they want, but they don't need to.

 

[4Twenty]

It’ll all work out. Team is so good. Just count after the new coach bounces. Everything else doesn’t count.


Ignore the other times. Excuse the reasons why they’re not even a bubble team. Definitely ignore all the other teams.

Can’t rebuild with Hughes (4 years left) and Pettersson (2 years team control) is the new but 3 calders.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It’ll all work out. Team is so good. Just count after the new coach bounces. Everything else doesn’t count.


Ignore the other times. Excuse the reasons why they’re not even a bubble team. Definitely ignore all the other teams.

Can’t rebuild with Hughes (4 years left) and Pettersson (2 years team control) is the new but 3 calders.

I'm not sure anyone has said that the team cannot be rebuilt around Pettersson and Hughes, just that there's no precedent to doing so.

@bossram hit on a key point: Even if things go well in this critical offseason, the team could end up 7-8th in the west as a top end projection. How low on the bubble do you have to be to have that as your top end projection? Further, how far are you away from the cup if that's your top end for the next few years?

If you have belief answering those questions, there's no reaching you. People are welcome to their opinions, of course, but reason is going to matter when presenting that opinion to others.

 

[wetcoast]

I don't think myers is as bad as we all make him out to be. He really just doesn't fit with Hughes, but he has looked fine with other dmen, and hasn't looked bad the last while except oddly when with Hughes. Either way, all we have been hearing is his contract is very moveable once his bonus is paid, so I really hope and expect him to be gone.

So who do the Canucks replace Myers with if they are going for a retool, Jet Woo?

He is the easiest Buyout candidate ever. I don't know if FAQ would let them do that, but holly crap its so simple.

If not, I bring him back, hope he is better, but if he is as bad as he has been I sit him. I wouldn't play him. Honestly, I would tell him... you are not an NHL dman and you won't be playing. Pray he would rather go on LTIR. He is easily the hardest thing to move IF FAQ doesn't let you buy him out.

Same thing with OEL who replaces him from within our system, rathbone?

Yes our centre depth isn't that great... but is it really a hard fix? Petey and Miller our two of the best centres out there. top 5 maybe? You bring in a solid 3C and like you said Aman behind him, and its actually pretty good.

If only we had a guy like Horvat we would be in the playoffs......we are stuck with Miller now

Our PK has been terrible for two years, but it has been trending up, and if we do add Hronek (already done) and another top 4 guy it again looks pretty solid.

Well the PK literally couldn't get any worse but it wasn't great last year and only middle of the pack the year before.

To me next season is all about putting this team on track. losing the bad money. I think if you do that, you are much better set up.

Losing money would be great if we had the young prospects who were pushing instead they will just replace the cap guys with probably the same types of player or less.

We knew that we had bad contracts then re upped JTM and Boeser already that's in part why we are here.

 

[wetcoast]

You can't look at the last two offseasons. You just can't group Benning era stuff in with JR. Its just not fair to anyone. Was it important... yeah sure. But it has no bearing on if this offseason is plausible.

But the Benning stuff still affects the team today, it's not like mangment didn't ahve tod eal with the pipeline issues and cap issues.

Last offseason, was an interesting one. I think they came up short in some spots, and to me made 1 error, and that was signing Boeser (assuming their goal to turn the team around in a retool). This will need to be better, but still not impossible.

The JTM resigning was a mistake as it basically forced them to move Horvat but maybe we are better off with Hronek than Horvat but I still wanted to keep those 2 picks.

I don't think it is that implausible at all. All we have heard for two years is Myers can be moved once his bonus is paid. That move looks to be easy. I think Boeser is moveable in one of two ways. Either with small retention, or if you take back a bad contract. So if you just want to clear space, retain on him to like 5 mil. If not, you take back a contract, and here is where you can be creative. Maybe this bad contract is a your 3C.

Sure we will just move bad contracts and meh players, if only it were so easy to do.

I actually don't think the team needs to move Garland. I think they can if they want, but they don't need to.

Garland isn't part of the playoff future here is he?

 

[credulous]

the canucks could have been rebuilt around pettersson and hughes if they had taken decisive action last season. move out one or both of miller and horvat. trade or non-qualify boeser. trade garland for whatever was available. use cap space to buy good young players or draft picks for cheap. they could have been going into this offseason with an above average group of forwards all signed to reasonable deals and with the flexibility to add multiple defenders and depth pieces

the problem they face now is their cap situation is atrocious

ignoring players making sub 1 mil (who need to be replaced for approximately the same amount) the only salary out this summer is bear (1.8m) and dermott (1.5m) and salary in is miller's extension (3.75m more than he currently makes)

in 2024 salary out is pettersson (7.35m), myers (6m), hronek (4.4m) and beauvillier (4.15m). myers probably covers extensions to pettersson and hronek. beauvillier gives a little bit of flexibility to add a player if he is traded or walks

in 2025 salary out is boeser (6.65m) and kuzmenko (5.5m). this is really the first opportunity to add a significant player although kuzmenko probably eats up a lot of the boeser salary

2026 is really the first year the canucks cap crunch starts to ease up a bit. garland (4.95m), mikheyev (4.75m) and demko (5m) all expire

you can buyout oel for some immediate cap relief but it only adds 7m in 2023, 5m in 2024 and 2.5m in 2025 and 2026. if you use the oel buyout to add a long term contract you're basically already using up the boeser expiring and one of the mikheyev and garland expiring contracts

buying out boeser is a little better but if you use that room to add a player beyond 2025 then you can't use his money to extend kuzmenko or add other players in 2025

if you move myers this offseason you're in real trouble in 2024 when you then only have beauvillier expiring and no other new money to extend pettersson and hronek

the bottom line is either you believe in this roster as is or you should believe the team should take a longer term view and focus on clearing bad salary and swapping out secondary pieces like mikheyev, miller and garland for cheaper options. it's going to be monstrously hard to add talent without giving up significant assets (which the canucks lack) or without getting lucky with late round picks and free agent signings

 

[andora]

use cap space to buy good young players or draft picks for cheap.

Legit curiousity.. but can you elaborate on buying good young players because of cap space

 

[supercanuck]

Former Canucks GM Dave Nonis explains how the Luongo trade went down | Offside

Thought this was kind of funny:

“But, at this point, when I asked Mike if he had interest in Todd Bertuzzi, I didn’t even ask for [Luongo] at that time. The first thing out of Mike’s mouth was ‘well I guess Roberto’s gotta be involved in that doesn’t he?’

 

[vancityluongo]

gonna bring these over from the draft thread:

sometimes i feel like i'm losing my mind watching the same people who mock edmonton for failing to build around mcdavid and draisatl by making foolish short term moves now argue there is only one choice for the canucks and that is to build around pettersson and hughes by making short term moves

eh, I do think that while that's a conventional take (lol look what edmonton signed nurse for! hahaha - ignoring that he's a legit top pair D and letting him walk would be suicide) the real problem there is that ken holland before the ekholm trade ran that team the opposite of the canucks - hoarding 1st round picks, not ever moving prospects, sitting on players for far too long with crippling regret aversion, etc.

the way this team runs would be great if we were actually starting in edmonton's position with the pettersson/miller/kuzmenko/hughes/demko core. y'know, a playoff team. one that could maybe win the division, even.

let's write off this season even and assume the canucks are an edmonton-level, 95-100 point playoff team. cool! now how do we make an ekholm move? there are no assets left to trade!!! oh, and we have massive liabilities that just keep getting worse.

edmonton right now is the upside for this group, and that's bleak as hell. they still have a prospect pool that laps ours and only a couple of inefficient contracts.

I can't really say anything more than that I think your take is atrocious both in terms of the nuts and bolts of it as well as atrocious in terms of being aligned with the real-world realities of running a professional sports team.

The single hardest thing to do in pro sports is find elite players. It's f***ing hard. Detroit has just tanked for 7 years and now are rebuilding the rebuild because it failed to hit on any elite talent. Arizona has been rebuilding for a decade plus for the same reason.

When you have elite talent, you do everything possible to build around them and retain them. This is just simply f***ing elementary. Flushing out the roster and adding a 3C and another top-4 defender is piddling compared to getting this core in place in the first place.

You'd be trading Elias Pettersson right now, then?

Edit : and the one thing I'll add before leaving this discussion or taking it elsewhere because it is the draft thread is that I profoundly disagree that it's 'delusion' to thing that you can build a sustainable winner around Pettersson/Hughes/Demko (plus Miller/Kuznetsov/Hronek).

so you think the core is strong enough to go from playoff team (as described above) to elite contender just by hitting on the right 3C and 4D?

i wouldn't trade pettersson or hughes, but i really don't think that the above gets them there. for every arizona in a perpetual rebuild (they made the bubble playoffs which is the only playoffs either team has seen since 2015), there are also the mcdrai oilers or the matthews/marner leafs or the gaudreau/tkachuk flames or the barkov/huberdeau panthers.

sure, it was more likely that the mackinnon/rantanen/makar avs and the stamkos/kucherov/hedman/vasilevskiy bolts would eventually figure it out with those elite cores vs the coyotes or sabres of the past decades. but even if our core is at that same level, the rest of the team is so hamstrung that i think we'll be doomed to be in that former group.

 

[rypper]

Former Canucks GM Dave Nonis explains how the Luongo trade went down | Offside

Thought this was kind of funny:

“But, at this point, when I asked Mike if he had interest in Todd Bertuzzi, I didn’t even ask for [Luongo] at that time. The first thing out of Mike’s mouth was ‘well I guess Roberto’s gotta be involved in that doesn’t he?’

I guess before it was "pulling a Benning", it was called "pulling a Keenan."

 

[MS]

so you think the core is strong enough to go from playoff team (as described above) to elite contender just by hitting on the right 3C and 4D?

i wouldn't trade pettersson or hughes, but i really don't think that the above gets them there. for every arizona in a perpetual rebuild (they made the bubble playoffs which is the only playoffs either team has seen since 2015), there are also the mcdrai oilers or the matthews/marner leafs or the gaudreau/tkachuk flames or the barkov/huberdeau panthers.

sure, it was more likely that the mackinnon/rantanen/makar avs and the stamkos/kucherov/hedman/vasilevskiy bolts would eventually figure it out with those elite cores vs the coyotes or sabres of the past decades. but even if our core is at that same level, the rest of the team is so hamstrung that i think we'll be doomed to be in that former group.

I don't think it's some sort of 'delusional' impossibility, that's for sure.

And, I mean, there are levels to this stuff. We aren't going to turn this situation into a 12-year Penguins window or something like that.

If we can open up a 5 year window where we're generally a home-ice team in the playoffs and have some hope of a quality playoff push, that sounds great to me right now. I hate this mentality where if you aren't TB or Colorado you should just be blowing it up and rebuilding for 8 years.

Good teams have a strong foundation through the middle of the the ice. We have a young top-5 C, a young top-5 D, a young top 5-8 G, and an elite #2 C if Miller is actually fixed. And Hronek is a massive add as a #2-3 RHD. This team needs to find a 2nd pairing LHD and flush out a 3rd line, but there's a lot to work with and it's totally reasonable to think you can build a good team around these players if management makes the right moves.

 

[bandwagonesque]

the canucks could have been rebuilt around pettersson and hughes if they had taken decisive action last season.

Leaving aside the butterfly effect, the Canucks could probably have rebuilt fairly well the year before by simply not making the OEL/Garland trade, assuming they still managed to sign Kuzmenko. I didn't like the trade but thought the team would at least benefit a fair bit in the short term, and I turned out to be wrong.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I don't think myers is as bad as we all make him out to be. He really just doesn't fit with Hughes, but he has looked fine with other dmen, and hasn't looked bad the last while except oddly when with Hughes.

I'm sorry but no. Hughes-Myers was run of the mill bad...OEL-Myers and Stillman-Myers were unplayable this year. And OEL actually kept his possession numbers above water away from Myers!

 

[andora]

I'm sorry but no. Hughes-Myers was run of the mill bad...OEL-Myers and Stillman-Myers were unplayable this year. And OEL actually kept his possession numbers above water away from Myers!

Yep

The best myers could do right now is tread water.. doesnt matter who he is with

He waits for confirmation before moving the puck, consistently turns the wrong way, does not use any of his size when he happens to be in a position to use it and he thinks everything too slow

He neeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to go

 

[vancityluongo]

I don't think it's some sort of 'delusional' impossibility, that's for sure.

And, I mean, there are levels to this stuff. We aren't going to turn this situation into a 12-year Penguins window or something like that.

If we can open up a 5 year window where we're generally a home-ice team in the playoffs and have some hope of a quality playoff push, that sounds great to me right now. I hate this mentality where if you aren't TB or Colorado you should just be blowing it up and rebuilding for 8 years.

Good teams have a strong foundation through the middle of the the ice. We have a young top-5 C, a young top-5 D, a young top 5-8 G, and an elite #2 C if Miller is actually fixed. And Hronek is a massive add as a #2-3 RHD. This team needs to find a 2nd pairing LHD and flush out a 3rd line, but there's a lot to work with and it's totally reasonable to think you can build a good team around these players if management makes the right moves.

I don't think you need to be a TB or Colorado, but even a team like Florida in 2019 with a similar core - Barkov (young top 5 C), Ekblad (young top 15 D), Huberdeau (top 5-7 W), Weegar (massive add as a #2-3 RHD) a f*** ton of young prospects and players, draft capital, and cap space - effectively blew out their window with the Bobrovsky signing, even with a strong GM in Zito making relatively astute moves. They reset with Tkachuk and still should be good for the next 5 years, but will they ever have an elite team? The margin for error is just so small.

Like, I don't disagree that directionally it makes sense to try to build rather than rebuild. But I think the pace of the build can't be too aggressive, especially given the metaphorical debt on the balance sheet. And as such, I would sacrifice a year or two on the front end of that 5-year window with the hopes of the more concentrated window culminating over 3-4 years where the team is actually seen as a contender.

That doesn't have to entail tanking for a shot at Bedard or whatever, but young contributing players are increasingly moving the needle on their ELCs. And between the Pettersson raise, OEL's continued contract or buyout hit, assuming a sunk cost on one of Garland/Boeser, etc., it seems like they will need those high value ELC contracts just to keep pace with the Edmonton/Vegas/LA level teams in the division, let alone to take a step past them. And in the case of an LA or Edmonton, they just have more assets capital and flexibility to continue taking steps forward. We have to red paperclip to a house, while they have war chests with 50% downpayments ready.

Now, if they move JT Miller (similar to Florida with Huberdeau) for a 22 year old, or move Demko in a three-way deal that lands Jeremy Swayman from Boston, now that changes things. You can push out that window a bit. Those are the kinds of things I would suggest.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I think yeah, most people would agree they are a bubble team, on true talent. Being a bubble team is literally the worst place to be in the NHL - you are not a contender, but you don't get to reap the rewards of the draft system.

Not only are the Canucks a bubble-ish team, they are one bereft of draft capital, legit prospects, or even cap flexibilty to improve. Truly a terrible organizational position.

The question is what path should the organization chart to become a long-term contender at some point. Which is more likely? Retool or rebuild?

Curious, what teams do you view as true contenders? 6 or 7 teams? The majority of the league are “bubble-ish” teams with the exception of the same 5 teams that rot at the bottom most years.

 

[gringo]

Curious, what teams do you view as true contenders? 6 or 7 teams? The majority of the league are “bubble-ish” teams with the exception of the same 5 teams that rot at the bottom most years.

Probably 10 legit contenders this year

 

[racerjoe]

So who do the Canucks replace Myers with if they are going for a retool, Jet Woo?

Same thing with OEL who replaces him from within our system, rathbone?

If only we had a guy like Horvat we would be in the playoffs......we are stuck with Miller now

Well the PK literally couldn't get any worse but it wasn't great last year and only middle of the pack the year before.

Losing money would be great if we had the young prospects who were pushing instead they will just replace the cap guys with probably the same types of player or less.

We knew that we had bad contracts then re upped JTM and Boeser already that's in part why we are here.

Why do you jump to Jet Woo and Rathbone... both are not even next in line currently. Its a disingenuous comment.

Miller is much better than Horvat.

The PK is actually improving a fair bit, and I think on a pretty good streak. Its amazing what structure can do isn't it.

But the Benning stuff still affects the team today, it's not like mangment didn't ahve tod eal with the pipeline issues and cap issues.

The JTM resigning was a mistake as it basically forced them to move Horvat but maybe we are better off with Hronek than Horvat but I still wanted to keep those 2 picks.


Sure we will just move bad contracts and meh players, if only it were so easy to do.

Garland isn't part of the playoff future here is he?

Its not that they don't have to deal with it, that is a strawman. The do, but people have been using the past management group as why we can't. Or one poster trying to lump in the twins playing days with what is relative now. It just isn't.

Signing JT isnt a mistake... especially in hindsight. I wouldn't want Bo at what he signed for. He is not nearly as good as JT, and signed longer, and for a higher dollar. The Hronek deal is currently looking really good as both picks drop in value. This is a bit different than how I felt earlier in that I thought it was an over payment.

I am basing what I think is possible on what experts seem to think is possible. While I think the best move is to buy out OEL, that has never been my plan as it doesn't seem that way. However moving Myers after his bonus, and Boeser with retention does seem very possible.

I'm sorry but no. Hughes-Myers was run of the mill bad...OEL-Myers and Stillman-Myers were unplayable this year. And OEL actually kept his possession numbers above water away from Myers!

No shit Myers was bad with Stillman and OEL... I think so was everyone else. Look at the past month or so, besides when he plays with Hughes he has actually been decent.

 

[bossram]

Curious, what teams do you view as true contenders? 6 or 7 teams? The majority of the league are “bubble-ish” teams with the exception of the same 5 teams that rot at the bottom most years.

I'd say there are five "true" contenders on talent: COL, BOS, CAR, TOR, TB, NJ. Teams that are clearly elite.

I think any given year you could list maybe 10-12 teams as "contenders" with a legit chance at winning the Cup. The Western teams are weaker, but they get bumped into this category because the playoff path is weaker. Throw in LA, EDM, DAL, to the above group.

But this discussion is pretty pointless. I don't consider the Canucks to be close to either of these groups. Their ceiling (Frankie Blueberries' Stanley Cup) is two home playoff dates from the Wild Card.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'd say there are five "true" contenders on talent: COL, BOS, CAR, TOR, TB, NJ. Teams that are clearly elite.

I think any given year you could list maybe 10-12 teams as "contenders" with a legit chance at winning the Cup. The Western teams are weaker, but they get bumped into this category because the playoff path is weaker. Throw in LA, EDM, DAL, to the above group.

But this discussion is pretty pointless. I don't consider the Canucks to be close to either of these groups. Their ceiling (Frankie Blueberries' Stanley Cup) is two home playoff dates from the Wild Card.

Nucks are currently, at best, 4th in their own division.

Vegas, LA and Edmonton are all better.

Seattle is a mixed bag so would not put them above just yet (beyond this season).

So best case scenario is a WC spot.

Which means playing Colorado or whomever wins the Pacific.

It's essentially: 1. Get in 2. Hope Demko stands on his head 3. Pray

This is what the team is likely for the next year. Beyond that is entirely dependent on whether EP is satisfied enough with being in the middle on a LT deal.

It might happen but they are going to have to pay $11M+/yr to keep him.

Even then, who's to say Hughes and Demko are ok with being in the middle.

Team is in the dead zone without a way to get out anytime soon because: 1. They have no cap 2. They have no prospects 3. They have no picks

So as much as I enjoy a couple individual players, the actual team itself is not good enough. And won't be for awhile.