Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[RobertKron]

Allvin/Rutherford not for a year or longer, Tocchet/Allvin is the reality now.

Tocchet wants players he can dominate.

How can anyone expect the same results of last year when the team changes 8 players.

Out are the Russians, Zadorov, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev and Podkolzin, defenceman Cole, forwards 24pt Lafferty and late pick up Lindholm

In are Debrusk, Sprong, Deharnais, Heinen, Raty and Forbort

ONE injured forward, Joshua ONE injured goalie, Demko but then Demko was injured for months last year.

Joshua might not be the same with all the treatments needed to fight a serious cancer, he could be out a long time.

For me there is no panic in this season because I think this season will be a repeat of 2016 after a surprising divisional winning 2015.

I listened to a radio show that stated 11 points for the month would be a good result, 11 points would be a disaster but now as the games are played 11 points might be good after all.

Cap management? Well almost 8 million is sitting out combined with the OEL buyout counted. OEL would look pretty good on this group right now his 7.25 mil could have easily fit and ended this year. Think of it Hughes - Hronek, Myers - OEL, Soucy - Forbort/Deharnais, IMO a better defence and 12 mil in cap space next year with JUST OEL coming off the books. Combine with the draft picks traded and suddenly Marner is affordable. Oh well, might as well post a different "what if" history is for learning so the same mistakes aren't repeated. Or for betting

This is a Tocchet (Keenan) team. I do think EP's days are numbered under Tocchet.

So if it comes down to this Tocchet team.
Who goes Tocchet or EP? And Sprong and Deharnais and Karlsson and Willander and Lettermaki and all the other younger skill guys that aren't boards or strictly defence first guys?

IMO Tocchet's "vision" of a team player does not appear to have any flexibility, perfection is always desired but rarely achieved so that is when coaching comes in, form lines, strengths and weaknesses. Don't "force" players to conform to a "vision".

I noticed the Canucks don't have much of the dressing room stuff on Prime, none at all. And the behind the scenes stuff is missing if it was ever there. Didn't they used to have dressing room shots/clips before.

At a guess, as things stand now, they will get between 84 and 90 pts this year, they just don't have the goal scoring or defence depth even if Demko comes back for a few months. Maybe they are saving him until missing the playoffs is imminent before playing him due to an expected short shelf life.

cool

 

[theguardianII]

There might be some internal pressure starting to blow off.

Miller is clearly a Tocchet guy in his style of play.
Pettersson not so much. This can be stated if only looking at EP's point totals.
Under Green, whose system was similar to Tocchet's, EP had slumps in scoring but once Bruce got here his scoring soared and did for all of Bruce's time here.
Bruce never had the defence depth of skill level that either Green or Tocchet had but then EP was over a 100 pt player.

The differences in systems or coaching styles may point to EP's play and production.

They say a rough practice is good, but between the supposed two of the lynch pins of offence on the team? Really?

How often has anyone ever heard of two stars on a team duking it out?

Rumors have been out for awhile of a "distance" between Miller and EP and there is nothing that says teammates need to be friends but stars with this much distaste might be too much and maybe a signal of internal strife.

If management had to make a choice between EP and Miller which way do you think they would go? What if EP decides he isn't happy in the fish bowl or doesn't or can't play Tocchet's stringent style and wants out? Allvin would not make that public but signs point to EP not being thrilled.

IMO they will do nothing and hope nothing becomes too public, hoping that things work out in their favour. Maybe other team's start inquiring about availability.

If push comes to shove I think Allvin has already made his position clear, Miller and Tocchet.

Tocchet talks alot about changing player's games, how they play. Well some players are just not built to play his way mentally.
EP was NEVER a boards guys, forechecker first guy a dump and chase guy that isn't how he got to be in the first round of the playoffs. EP doesn't laugh or smile or look like he is having fun playing and the fish bowl that is Vancouver isn't taking the magnifying glass off him.

Look back at EP's production under Green, Bruce and Tocchet. Two coaches with similar styles in Green and Tocchet and under Bruce. When Bruce got here even with Kuz being a rookie and no decent line mate EP was almost 2 pts per game.

EP doesn't have enough of a record to push the team in a direction. Crosby got a coach fired because of difference in styles, that was/got very public, EP hasn't the runway for that and won't get it under Tocchet's tutelage.

With no animosity towards EP I think a different city could relieve the pressure on him, right now he is a flunky to Miller and Tocchet. Tocchet, paraphrasing here, "I changed Garland's game" really? How? When? In the 4 years he never coached Garland?And even though Garland is quite a dynamic player this season his point totals are mediocre at best.

I am not saying running EP out of town should be done but there is pressure building. Fighting in practice between stars is no small thing and should not be buried as "it's normal, it's good" maybe between "energy guys, 3rd/4th liners, 6/7 dmen fighting for a job but not the guys at the top of the pedestal. It is more than just not a good look, it reveals internal pressure.
The room has been under review before with Miller, there was a supposed difference between Horvat and Miller too.

Allvin has not been stellar either. True he ahs made some outstanding signing of highly desired players but then gave away some of the farm to rid the team of them. Maybe signing Petey was another mistake. Rumoured trade with Carolina and other teams, pushing for a solution prior to the TDL for the good of the team to sign earlier. EP did a "team" decision but maybe it was his mistake too. Once committed Tocchet has immense power on him. There might be too much of alpha stuff happening now.
Maybe too much has passed for there to be a wait and see for a change in EP's play. How many seasons would about right before a decision if it is negative, how many games? There is getting close to a season's worth of games now.

The season is still early, things can change, but they can change both ways although it is hard to see how they could get worse for Petey. The "shows" are still burying this a quick as possible, some of them anyway but this dust up is very significant regardless of what the players say.

This whole Tocchet/Miller thing reminds me a lot of Messier/Keenan stuff.

 

[ephmrl]

This whole Tocchet/Miller thing reminds me a lot of Messier/Keenan stuff.

Best post of all time. You've outdone yourself with this one.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Best post of all time. You've outdone yourself with this one.

It's not even close to that level of toxic.

Keenan and Messier were out watching basketball games and having dinner together, while also conducting closed-door private meetings about the state of the team.

 

[ephmrl]

It's not even close to that level of toxic.

Keenan and Messier were out watching basketball games and having dinner together, while also conducting closed-door private meetings about the state of the team.

Miller and Tocchet are incredibly well regarded by the fan base. Tocchet just won a Jack Adams and Miller will go down as one of the best centers to wear a Canucks uniform. It’s one of the worst comparisons I’ve ever seen on these boards.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Miller and Tocchet are incredibly well regarded by the fan base. Tocchet just won a Jack Adams and Miller will go down as one of the best centers to wear a Canucks uniform. It’s one of the worst comparisons I’ve ever seen on these boards.

I'm inclined to agree, simply because it's understating just how toxic Keenan/Messier were for this organization.

Go watch old videos/news articles about how the team treated Linden as soon as Keenan was brought on board. Iron Mike was in the press publicly saying that Linden was playing at a 50% commit level and that he didn't give a shit about the team. Messier was doing interviews about how he is the Captain and now has to be the leader in the room, and the rest of the team need to block out any distractions.





It was like if your girlfriend started dating someone else before you had moved out, and then went on social media bragging about how annoying it was that you were still around.