Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[mriswith]

They didn't do nothing the first year. They repaired the organization in the first year...something that often seems to be missed. That complete mess of an organization needed to be cleaned up to form a solid foundation before truly addressing the mess on the ice. They also had to wrestle for autonomy from ownership during that time.

It looks like the bolded was 99% of it. They didn't get rolling with on ice changes until they had their coaching staff in place and it took 3/4 of a season longer than they wanted to do it.

I have no doubt they've been rebuilding the org in ways we don't have visibility, but that's not enough of a reason on its own to make virtually no on ice changes for the first year. They aren't Benning who could only handle making one decision every two months at best and only if his crayons were properly sharpened,

This isn't criticism of the mgmt group, no one wanted the massive roster turnover they're pulling off more than me. What we're getting this year is Rutherford's MO which is why it's very interesting it was delayed by a year.

 

[tantalum]

It looks like the bolded was 99% of it. They didn't get rolling with on ice changes until they had their coaching staff in place and it took 3/4 of a season longer than they wanted to do it.

I have no doubt they've been rebuilding the org in ways we don't have visibility, but that's not enough of a reason on its own to make virtually no on ice changes for the first year. They aren't Benning who could only handle making one decision every two months at best and only if his crayons were properly sharpened,

This isn't criticism of the mgmt group, no one wanted the massive roster turnover they're pulling off more than me. What we're getting this year is Rutherford's MO which is why it's very interesting it was delayed by a year.

It wasn't just a coaching change. Jim and friends had destroyed the entire organization which I think was a bit unique to most GMs coming to new team. It wasn't just bad on ice decisions but going to a bare bones organization to save $$$. That had to be rebuilt first in order for the on ice stuff to be successful (it was every level of the organization from AGM and below)

 

[arttk]

It looks like the bolded was 99% of it. They didn't get rolling with on ice changes until they had their coaching staff in place and it took 3/4 of a season longer than they wanted to do it.

I have no doubt they've been rebuilding the org in ways we don't have visibility, but that's not enough of a reason on its own to make virtually no on ice changes for the first year. They aren't Benning who could only handle making one decision every two months at best and only if his crayons were properly sharpened,

This isn't criticism of the mgmt group, no one wanted the massive roster turnover they're pulling off more than me. What we're getting this year is Rutherford's MO which is why it's very interesting it was delayed by a year.

Is it really shocking that it takes time to get rid of all the Benning crap in a flat cap era while inhering a completely empty prospect pool and not even a full draft worth of picks.

Nevermind the fact that a lot of the improvement came from internal improvement and that took a new coach staff and drastic cultural change like replacing the captain.

 

[vanuck]

It's kinda mind-numbing how you can go from the highs we saw under Gillis, to the s***show we witnessed with Benning, and finally back to this... all under the same ownership. Like, WTF.

Chances might be slim but I truly hope this teaches Aquilini a lesson here, regardless of how the rest of this season plays out.

 

[geebaan]

Some people STILL defending Benning here is nothing short of wild.

Gillis, Nonis, Benning, they’re all gone now and we’re good again.
Let’s just not talk about them anymore lol

 

[Zombotron]

f*** no i won't stop talking about him

he and his legacy deserve to be pilloried for years to come, and his defenders need to be reminded of the body of work they supported

any sort of apologia for the man — and it will arise as the team continues to succeed — deserves to be shut down with absolute prejudice

 

[JT Milker]

Benning was the worst thing about my 20s.

 

[HairyKneel]

Night and day, agreed. Before this past offseason, you could have legitimately wanted them gone. Few would have batted an eye.

Speaking of eye(s), I wondered why Allvin looked so tired in the contract extension presser. Now we know.

You’re out to lunch. Launch them after a season and a half.

 

[strattonius]

Some people STILL defending Benning here is nothing short of wild.

Gillis, Nonis, Benning, they’re all gone now and we’re good again.
Let’s just not talk about them anymore lol

Maybe I missed it? Who is defending Benning?

 

[Bleach Clean]

You’re out to lunch. Launch them after a season and a half.

What during that time made you a believer? That is nearly 30% of the the average GMs total tenure.

 

[andora]

What during that time made you a believer? That is nearly 30% of the the average GMs total tenure.

What was going on with abbotsford was a big one

Also realizing that fixing stuff takes time

 

[Bleach Clean]

What was going on with abbotsford was a big one

Also realizing that fixing stuff takes time

The main fixes to the roster came within 7 months of work... (OEL buyout to FA signings).

They've had an abundance of time here to start to perform their 'major surgery'. Better late than never.

 

[andora]

The main fixes to the roster came within 7 months of work... (OEL buyout to FA signings).

They've had an abundance of time here to start to perform their 'major surgery'. Better late than never.

Yes their time table that has to work with 31 other time tables

7 months is not a long time... now all of a sudden people are looking at their success and roster turnover and how quick it was..

Proper evaluation and planning a course of action isnt done in a week

 

[valkynax]

f*** no i won't stop talking about him

he and his legacy deserve to be pilloried for years to come, and his defenders need to be reminded of the body of work they supported

Will say this as many times as I like: my avatar shall remain as it is, until the very last blackhole in the universe, according to the brilliant Dr. Hawking, evaporates into absolute nothingness, when time ceases to have any meaning, when no more will happen and continues to not happen.

Our new regime has not been perfect, the Boudreau fiasco was a mess that might've been avoidable, and their early boastful, borderline showboating stance still rubs me the wrong way. The difference here is that, Mr. Clean and Moleman seemed to have been learning changing and evolving rapidly, quickly adapting to situations. And now, we're delivered tangible results, results fans can bank their hope on. I am still doubtful about Lord Stanley gracing us this season, but I think at this point I can have some faith that our current management will have contingency plans for whatever that comes.

I knew at the peak of the Reign of Error that it will end one day, when Commando Dimbo's name will be hung drawn and quartered. What I did not know was, it took SEVEN AND HALF agonizing years to reach the tunnel's end.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yes their time table that has to work with 31 other time tables

7 months is not a long time... now all of a sudden people are looking at their success and roster turnover and how quick it was..

Proper evaluation and planning a course of action isnt done in a week

Edit: It's because most of their apparent work has been done in the last 7 months that opinions have shifted on them.

I find it difficult to believe that 31 other time tables prevented them from doing anything of significance. I would say it was more the permission to buy out OEL that got the ball rolling. Until then, they were rather stagnant. (Multiple articles/videos had criticized their work to that point)

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I actually think Virtanen is the only real case of a player being “developed” by the previous regime. Actually spent some time in Utica and became a 15-20 middle 6er. His off ice habits and IQ were what held him back, not development. Juolevi you’re probably right.

I feel infinitely more confident that an D-Petey like prospect will make it than I did before. Management has done excellent work building Abbotsford and the player development staff.

yeah, I agree. I think when Manitoba moved on from us, our development system was neglected . I understand what you mean, about D Petey and that. I feel the same way.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Will say this as many times as I like: my avatar shall remain as it is, until the very last blackhole in the universe, according to the brilliant Dr. Hawking, evaporates into absolute nothingness, when time ceases to have any meaning, when no more will happen and continues to not happen.

Our new regime has not been perfect, the Boudreau fiasco was a mess that might've been avoidable, and their early boastful, borderline showboating stance still rubs me the wrong way. The difference here is that, Mr. Clean and Moleman seemed to have been learning changing and evolving rapidly, quickly adapting to situations. And now, we're delivered tangible results, results fans can bank their hope on. I am still doubtful about Lord Stanley gracing us this season, but I think at this point I can have some faith that our current management will have contingency plans for whatever that comes.

I knew at the peak of the Reign of Error that it will end one day, when Commando Dimbo's name will be hung drawn and quartered. What I did not know was, it took SEVEN AND HALF agonizing years to reach the tunnel's end.

Never forget the Benning truthers who tried their best to convince others what they had already been convinced of. Even up to the firing. December 4, 2021 I still had to hear about how the players are all sucking or whatever else excuse to deflect from incompetence.

Congrats, you were blind to easily the worst manager in team history and our worst era since the 80s. Impressive, take a bow.

 

[andora]

Edit: It's because most of their apparent work has been done in the last 7 months that opinions have shifted on them.

I find it difficult to believe that 31 other time tables prevented them from doing anything of significance. I would say it was more the permission to buy out OEL that got the ball rolling. Until then, they were rather stagnant. (Multiple articles/videos had criticized their work to that point)

Yep that is valid too which took time

It is just my opinion but i think there was a shitload of work to be done before just going into the trade screen

 

[Nazzlind]

Appearing to be stagnant doesn’t mean they actually were tho

Every article was also saying there were active and always looking to do something

For example, they tried trading for Hronek for almost a year before they finally got him

 

[MarkMM]

Even if there weren't a lot of on-ice changes there was a ton of off-ice changes, investing in scouting, development, management depth and diverse perspectives.

Not unreasonable to give credit for those early investments being what led to disproportionately good outcomes we're now seeing, it takes time to get a good scouting system in place, aligned coaching and talent development to make the most of what we have.

I find it easier to believe that instead of suddenly everything going right these past few months, what is more likely is that Rutherford and Allvin invested in the foundation that once it got in place led to a system that produces good decisions and maximizing the potential of the players they get, which is why we're now seeing the change in outcomes.

 

[arttk]

Even if there weren't a lot of on-ice changes there was a ton of off-ice changes, investing in scouting, development, management depth and diverse perspectives.

Not unreasonable to give credit for those early investments being what led to disproportionately good outcomes we're now seeing, it takes time to get a good scouting system in place, aligned coaching and talent development to make the most of what we have.

I find it easier to believe that instead of suddenly everything going right these past few months, what is more likely is that Rutherford and Allvin invested in the foundation that once it got in place led to a system that produces good decisions and maximizing the potential of the players they get, which is why we're now seeing the change in outcomes.

It’s genuinely puzzling to me that some posters assumed that any management group could just come in and get rid all the Benning crap despite almost all of them being overpaid and signed to term.

It’s not that hard to look at that roster and make the conclusion that there is not too much you can do in year 1 considering we don’t have prospects, picks or cap to facilitate trading of those bad assets.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

They didn't do nothing the first year. They repaired the organization in the first year...something that often seems to be missed. That complete mess of an organization needed to be cleaned up to form a solid foundation before truly addressing the mess on the ice. They also had to wrestle for autonomy from ownership during that time.

My personal favourite was seeing Brandon Benning, security guard turned amateur scout transformed through the magic of nepotism, lingering around for like 6 months before getting dumpstered. It was the cherry on top in getting closure on the Reign of Error.

 

[RobertKron]

My personal favourite was seeing Brandon Benning, security guard turned amateur scout transformed through the magic of nepotism, lingering around for like 6 months before getting dumpstered. It was the cherry on top in getting closure on the Reign of Error.

My understanding is that he was kept around in a mentor role for the new management group.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Even if there weren't a lot of on-ice changes there was a ton of off-ice changes, investing in scouting, development, management depth and diverse perspectives.

Not unreasonable to give credit for those early investments being what led to disproportionately good outcomes we're now seeing, it takes time to get a good scouting system in place, aligned coaching and talent development to make the most of what we have.

I find it easier to believe that instead of suddenly everything going right these past few months, what is more likely is that Rutherford and Allvin invested in the foundation that once it got in place led to a system that produces good decisions and maximizing the potential of the players they get, which is why we're now seeing the change in outcomes.

I recall you wanting a rebuild (not retool)...Or trying a rebuild with EP, QH still on the team (in which case they would be leaving anyway..according to JR).

If JR/PA had not shown patience and restraint in the first year here, (Miller, Boeser, Myers) we would probably be a middle of the pack team today.

 

[logan5]

Maybe I missed it? Who is defending Benning?

Doesn't seem like anybody is, although that depends on your perception of what defending Benning is.

While most of the haters of the last regime were saying we need to rebuild or we've been set back years, a few others like myself were saying that there are some really good pieces to build a team around, and that is turning out to be very true. In the Benning hater eyes, that is considered defending Benning.

I think the anti Benning crowd is pissed because something good came out of the last management group that consisted of Bracket, Linden, Benning, and the rest of the crew.

The fact of the matter is, the Canucks rebuild hasn't been much different than a lot of teams in the cap era.