Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[arttk]

As a winger maybe... But the canes have a real alibi for not scoring. I mean they lost 3 of their best wingers to injury.

I don't see Miller as someone who can play responsible 5on5 hockey as a center. He never has.

Maybe if the Canucks retain a bit on Millers extension so that it makes it viable to play Miller as a winger for the Canes?

That's why I say Canes would only make sense if they crash out of the playoffs due to lack of scoring.

I don't think they need him to be a responsible shutdown center. He can be that 2C that goes out against easier competition and overall outscore his negatives. He would also improve their PP. Last time Miller was in the playoffs, he put up above PPG for us and in the playoffs, it's all about having more depth than the other team.

It would be crazy for us to retain cap for 7 years.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

That's why I say Canes would only make sense if they crash out of the playoffs due to lack of scoring.

They have 3 of their best wingers injured.

I don't think they need him to be a responsible shutdown center. He can be that 2C that goes out against easier competition and overall outscore his negatives. He would also improve their PP. Last time Miller was in the playoffs, he put up above PPG for us and in the playoffs, it's all about having more depth than the other team.

Thats not how the Hurricanes play. They are a very tight systems team. I doubt even the most vehement Miller defenders would agree with you that he would fit in to the Carolina system as a top 6 center.

It would be crazy for us to retain cap for 7 years.

Just as crazy as signing that contract in the first place.

 

[arttk]

They have 3 of their best wingers injured.

More reason for depth. If they crash out this season, that's another year gone in their window. Especially considering the fact Aho will be a UFA soon.

Thats not how the Hurricanes play. They are a very tight systems team. I doubt even the most vehement Miller defenders would agree with you that he would fit in to the Carolina system as a top 6 center.

If they can't get any further then they will need to explore ways to get over that hump. Also don't really subscribe to the idea that Miller can't do it, he did it in Tampa.

 

[RandV]

Eliminated teams are likely to cool off emotionally and start thinking more tactically and less emotionally as we get to the offseason. The low cap is going to make Miller hard to move again and then resend will think about the long term implications. Low cap is going to make players cheap again.

I'm skeptical we're actually going to move Miller. But while the cap won't go up much I wonder how much salary cap will be open by expiring contracts. From that infamous summer 8 or so years ago when Eriksson/Lucic/Ladd/Okposo/etc all got big contracts then proceeded to suck, to the point that most teams had a bad contract or two on the books, scanning through cap friendly now I was surprised how few there are remaining. And a number of the remaining ones are off the books this summer. With a weak UFA pool there could be a number of teams that have space from their own expiring contracts to add a contract like Miller's. The window would probably be pretty brief but the opportunity will likely be there.

 

[Jyrki21]

So...

They we to get cheaper, better and younger without any tradeable assets to speak of.

What will the retoolers think if the summer goes as I think it will.
Flat cap = Moving money still extremely hard.

I expect them to fail at moving enough money for us to be actually competitive next season.

Or lets put it this way; Is there ANYTHING that can happen this summer that will make you guys admit you were wrong about this plan?

I think they'll "be competitive" next year -- realistically they should have been this year too -- but they'll already be pretty close to their developmental peak unless some miracles happen to open up cap space and improve performance from within, so we're inevitably back at the question "what else can we actually do now?"

For the record, I think they're in for a rude awakening that Tyler Myers doesn't "suddenly become a desirable asset" when his bonus is paid, at least until the trade deadline at the earliest.

 

[Hodgy]

I think Miller could be moved this summer because, as some posters have pointed out, the UFA crop is really poor.

With that said, it would be beyond puzzling to me if this management traded Miller. They have said they want to compete now! and have made many moves that are consistent with that mandate. If they were to move Miller it is very likely that they would be taking a step back in the short term albeit improving in the long term and that is something this management team has basically never been willing to do.

And sure, I get that Miller, theoretically, could be traded for a younger player (perhaps a centre), and theoretically, the team might not be worse as a result. But practically speaking, no teams are going to trade young mid-twenties players, which provide anywhere close to the impact Miller provides, for Miller. It just never happens. The idea of getting younger and not getting worse is almost impossible are requires hitting your pro-scouting out of the park.

I hope I am proven wrong but I really don't see Miller getting trade this summer.....and if he doesn't get trade this summer, then he will likely be here for seven more years because his value will only decline.

 

[bossram]

More reason for depth. If they crash out this season, that's another year gone in their window. Especially considering the fact Aho will be a UFA soon.


If they can't get any further then they will need to explore ways to get over that hump. Also don't really subscribe to the idea that Miller can't do it, he did it in Tampa.

As @PuckMunchkin said, Miller to Canes is just philosophically the polar opposite of how they operate. They don't like one-way players. And they definitely don't like having huge contracts for aging players on the books.

And no, he didn't "do it" in TB. He wasn't a 2-way 2C there. He was an offense-only 1st line winger and got PP time. They traded him shortly before winning the Cup.

 

[arttk]

As @PuckMunchkin said, Miller to Canes is just philosophically the polar opposite of how they operate. They don't like one-way players. And they definitely don't like having huge contracts for aging players on the books.

And no, he didn't "do it" in TB. He wasn't a 2-way 2C there. He was an offense-only 1st line winger and got PP time. They traded him shortly before winning the Cup.

I mean if they are not getting anywhere in the playoffs, at some point philosophies could change because their window isn’t getting any longer.

I think you guys are mischaracterizing Miller as some pure offensive player that does whatever the f*** he wants like Patrick Kane. I don’t think he’s a 2 way C, but he’s also not the center version of P.Kane either. He’s competent defensively under the right coach and that’s why if you have him, you would deploy him against non 1st line.

Like I said, it would make sense if the Canes crash out due to the lack of scoring. In an event where a team crashes out due to lack of scoring, would they look for a 2 way center or would they look for more scoring? Probably more scoring and philosophies change when it doesn’t get you anywhere.

 

[bossram]

I mean if they are not getting anywhere in the playoffs, at some point philosophies could change because their window isn’t getting any longer.

I think you guys are mischaracterizing Miller as some pure offensive player that does whatever the f*** he wants like Patrick Kane. I don’t think he’s a 2 way C, but he’s also not the center version of P.Kane either. He’s competent defensively under the right coach and that’s why if you have him, you would deploy him against non 1st line.

Like I said, it would make sense if the Canes crash out due to the lack of scoring. In an event where a team crashes out due to lack of scoring, would they look for a 2 way center or would they look for more scoring? Probably more scoring and philosophies change when it doesn’t get you anywhere.

People: Based on everything we know about Carolina, Miller is not an attractive piece to them.​

​

You: But he could be!!​

​

I mean yeah. Sure I guess. You could say the same about any player to any team.​

 

[arttk]

People: Based on everything we know about Carolina, Miller is not an attractive piece to them.​

​

You: But he could be!!​

​

I mean yeah. Sure I guess. You could say the same about any player to any team.​

I mean most trade proposals here are unrealistic as f*** anyways since we are not GMs and all of us are just guessing what they need.

But hey if you have a grade A track record of predicting trades that will happen in the NHL, good for you!

Plus this is more of a response to would I trade Miller and for who.

It’s kinda funny how Canes fans are much more receptive to the idea of Miller in the trade rumor thread than you guys. I guess you know much better than those guys when it comes to the Canes.

 

[bossram]

I mean most trade proposals here are unrealistic as f*** anyways since we are not GMs and all of us are just guessing what they need.

But hey if you have a grade A track record of predicting trades that will happen in the NHL, good for you!

Plus this is more of a response to would I trade Miller and for who.

It’s kinda funny how Canes fans are much more receptive to the idea of Miller in the trade rumor thread than you guys. I guess you know much better than those guys when it comes to the Canes.

Lemme know when they acquire JT.

 

[arttk]

Lemme know when they acquire JT.

Lol why so stiff, the whole point of this discussion board to is talk about shit. Every single trade talk is about people talking about shit that will most likely not happen.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

More reason for depth. If they crash out this season, that's another year gone in their window. Especially considering the fact Aho will be a UFA soon.

Nah.

If they can't get any further then they will need to explore ways to get over that hump. Also don't really subscribe to the idea that Miller can't do it, he did it in Tampa.

As a winger.

 

[racerjoe]

People: Based on everything we know about Carolina, Miller is not an attractive piece to them.​

​

You: But he could be!!​

​

I mean yeah. Sure I guess. You could say the same about any player to any team.​

I mean I don't think we will trade him to Carolina, but this is wrong based on the fact the called us about him on trade deadline day. They clearly have some interest in him. Knowing the price was 2 firsts, it must be semi strong too.

 

[strattonius]

People: Based on everything we know about Carolina, Miller is not an attractive piece to them.​

​

You: But he could be!!​

​

I mean yeah. Sure I guess. You could say the same about any player to any team.​

Waddell has taken gambles on DeAngelo, Hamilton, Puljujarvi - Some examples. All these players had questions regarding their personalities and abilities and it didnt stop him from acquiring them. When you have the culture, system, and coaching already instilled often times player easily adapt to their new team.

Sooooo....The idea that Miller would be incapable of focusing heavily on a system's organization is just underestimating JT Miller, or underestimating Waddell's confidence in his system. Either way it doesn't sound accurate.

Carolina wouldn't target Miller for other reasons you've stated - he has 8 years of term that will creep in to the twilight of his career. And, it's a lot of money; and spending is something Waddell doesn't like to do.

Miller's personality and over-exaggerated lack of positional play is not deterring anyone from acquiring him. He's very good. It's his contract and age.

 

[bossram]

I mean I don't think we will trade him to Carolina, but this is wrong based on the fact the called us about him on trade deadline day. They clearly have some interest in him. Knowing the price was 2 firsts, it must be semi strong too.

I think it’s more likely they heard 2 firsts and hung up.

 

[racerjoe]

I think it’s more likely they heard 2 firsts and hung up.

The price had already been talked to for a week. They knew where the price was when they called.

 

[bossram]

Waddell has taken gambles on DeAngelo, Hamilton, Puljujarvi - Some examples. All these players had questions regarding their personalities and abilities and it didnt stop him from acquiring them. When you have the culture, system, and coaching already instilled often times player easily adapt to their new team.

Sooooo....The idea that Miller would be incapable of focusing heavily on a system's organization is just underestimating JT Miller, or underestimating Waddell's confidence in his system. Either way it doesn't sound accurate.

Carolina wouldn't target Miller for other reasons you've stated - he has 8 years of term that will creep in to the twilight of his career. And, it's a lot of money; and spending is something Waddell doesn't like to do.

Miller's personality and over-exaggerated lack of positional play is not deterring anyone from acquiring him. He's very good. It's his contract and age.

Yes. Factors which I highlighted. And make Miller irrelevant to your other “gamble” examples.

 

[arttk]

Nah.

As a winger.

Friendly reminder that he put up 99pt as a center and he put up above PPG pace as a center this year too.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Friendly reminder that he put up 99pt as a center and he put up above PPG pace as a center this year too.

Lets not continue this further.

I give you that Carolina is in a position to add Millers cap hit.

We fundamentally disagree on what kind of a team Carolina is,what they need and what Miller actually contributes on the ice.

 

[Peen]

I personally think that Miller is exactly the type of guy Carolina would like to add, but they also aren't the type of team to give in to an asking price of a roster player and two 1sts when they have a history of finding top line contributors like Pacioretty and Burns for pennies.

 

[Vector]

The report about the Hurricanes interest in Miller was that they only wanted to do a deal similar to Pacioretty or Burns. Canucks desperate to get rid of him and the Hurricanes can get another asset back as well or were giving up minor assets to get him. Talks didn't progress further than that.

 

[racerjoe]

The report about the Hurricanes interest in Miller was that they only wanted to do a deal similar to Pacioretty or Burns. Canucks desperate to get rid of him and the Hurricanes can get another asset back as well or were giving up minor assets to get him. Talks didn't progress further than that.

I don't completely believe those reports... again the media has just been so far off.

This is 100% how they normally operate so I think it is reports based upon assumed information.

Its just the pens report was out for a week. Even if they are trying to swoop in late after a deal fell through, I don't think they thought he was that type of asset in our eyes. That part doesnt make sense.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Watching these playoffs makes me realize how far away we are to "compete" with these teams. Even the 8th seed Kraken without their 40 goal man would destroy us in a 7 games series. The only teams that made the playoff this year where I think we have a decent chance of winning are Winnipeg, NYI and maybe Minny. But with the rumor that Kaprizov was playing hurt, and they still took Dallas to 6 games, I don't think we are winning against a healthy Wild team.

Management got A LOT of work to do this summer. But to make matter worse, they have almost zero in cap space, prospects, and very few picks left. They are also in tough creating cap space as most of the pieces they want to move have zero or negative trade value. I look forward to seeing what they can accomplish in the next few months.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I don't see any reason why Carolina wouldn't be interested in Miller, the player or the contract. He'd be an instant difference maker to their soft offense.

I doubt highly that they pay the alleged asking price. More likely Kotka and spare parts.

Crazy that miller is underrated now, should be a handful of teams all trying hard to acquire him.