Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[Bleach Clean]

Personally, for the first question I optimistically think the odds are good. For the 'contender' question, not so good. But that's always going to be the case regardless of what the team does.

To confirm: You think the odds that they create a consistent playoff team starting next year are good, when they are 23-25th in even strength efficiency, can make minimal changes realistically, and have nothing coming down the pipeline? This must be due to expecting elite goaltending and a non-atrocious PK?

 

[andora]

We are discussing the optimal path in theory. The team has already committed to win now. They did it with the Hronek trade. They are on the tracks. I know they aren't going to rebuild around Pettersson-Hughes for 2 years. (Not long at all)

But should they have? Absolutely, to my mind. They didn't have to do anything but keep the two 1sts they already had this year. Year 1 done. Then next year, try to collect picks. After that, game on. It's really no different than your 'two years and fail, rebuild", just flipped.

Game on? What does your example set us up to do? Sign a bunch of free agents?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think it was more about wanting the retirement contract .. nothing more nothing less

He was getting the retirement deal anyways, why does he want it here?

 

[andora]

He was getting the retirement deal anyways, why does he want it here?

Same reason he wanted it on long island.. he probably wanted the contract no matter where he works

 

[Bleach Clean]

Game on? What does your example set us up to do? Sign a bunch of free agents?

They could, but it would depend. Same as MS, it's how they execute. But at least they are closer to getting away from OEL, Myers is gone, perhaps mid-tier forwards gone etc... More and more flexibility, with now, hopefully, a good young prospect or two ready to advance.

Same reason he wanted it on long island.. he probably wanted the contract no matter where he works

This is dancing around the point. If this team has shown him nothing but losing, he's re-signing for reasons other than team performance. Until we hear/know different, the same thinking should apply to Pettersson.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

I hear this a lot and I don’t know why. I am not trying to be argumentative but why?

Buying OEL this summer as opposed to next summer saves a ton of cap space for 23-24 season. That’s it. It’s worse for the Canucks in every other way in terms of dead cap. Correct me if I am wrong.

Assuming we aren’t Cup contenders next season I think buying out OEL this summer is a mistake. On balance summer 2024 might be the best time.

They pushed their chips in when they gave JT his extension, plus the Hronke trade. That's a team trying to compete now, not to mention they way Tocchet and management rode their stars into the ground down the stretch for meaningless wins. Since that's the case, they cannot have a $7.26 million anchor on the roster.

The third and fourth years are the only kinda painful ones but a good management group can plan around that. To get $7.1 million in savings this upcoming season and almost $5 million in 2024-25 would be a massive boon.

That horrific Boeser extension comes off the books when the savings is only $2.5 million in years three and four of the buyout.

The plan can't be, "I hope we can put him on LTIR and recoup." He's a massive negative player. Almost anybody with two legs is better than him at this point.

 

[Diogenes92]

A lazy hollow counterpunch response

Ikr?

Similar to what I was replying to.

This dumb excuse of Petey and Hughes not wanting to hang around for a rebuild being a reason not to rebuild is idiotic.

Who cares? If it comes to to a rebuild, they can leave if they don't want to be patient.

Their history to this point isn't something to be proud of. Individual accomplishments with next to no team accolades.

 

[andora]

They could, but it would depend. Same as MS, it's how they execute. But at least they are closer to getting away from OEL, Myers is gone, perhaps mid-tier forwards gone etc... More and more flexibility, with now, hopefully, a good young prospect or two ready to advance.



This is dancing around the point. If this team has shown him nothing but losing, he's re-signing for reasons other than team performance. Until we hear/know different, the same thinking should apply to Pettersson.

Sure you run that way.. i will go the other way. I dont make many comments.. but outside of that feel good drama story of horvat and his skating coach he was the same player every year and a meh one at that. I didnt see any true passion or desire as you see with others.. no emotion not one thing.. same personality as a piece of wood..

I see improvements with pettersson.. let alone a drastically more impact player. There have also been several comments from him about winning.. everythimg is being phrased properly by him.. he is saying get your shit together management because if i dont like it im gone WITHOUT saying the obvious to the fans.. of course in my opinion

 

[Killer Orcas]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

Well this would explain the Hronek deal then. They need to be competitive next season or they know he won't re-sign.

 

[andora]

Ikr?

Similar to what I was replying to.

This dumb excuse of Petey and Hughes not wanting to hang around for a rebuild being a reason not to rebuild is idiotic.

Who cares? If it comes to to a rebuild, they can leave if they don't want to be patient.

Their history to this point isn't something to be proud of. Individual accomplishments with next to no team accolades.

Again to me its hollow but whatever.. f*** the great players we have for something we would be lucky to get and be as good.

Lots of great players have gone through this stupid no context narrative of not ever doing anything but personal achievements until they lead their teams on playoff runs

 

[Diogenes92]

Again to me its hollow but whatever.. f*** the great players we have for something we would be lucky to get and be as good.

Lots of great players have gone through this stupid no context narrative of not ever doing anything but personal achievements until they lead their teams on playoff runs

Unfortunately, playoff runs and this core don't have a lot of familiarity with one another.

Unearned playoff bubble aside, there hasn't even been a single playoff home game since 2015.

And they haven't even been rebuilding! Its a sick joke.

I will be the first to support and cheer for this team when they actually qualify for the playoffs and do something.

But if that doesn't happen next season and Petey wants to pout and leave? Good riddance.

 

[Gstank]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

I dont trust Dhaliwal one bit when it comes to things that aren't propaganda from the Agents. Does Petey realy think that there is going to be a team closing to contending with the assets and being able to afford his 10+ mill cap hit?

That list of teams is VERY VERY slim and as we saw with Tkachuck this year it definitely isnt a guarentee and Vancouver maybe be in a better spot with the assets they get from a Petey trade.

For example if he wanted to go to lets say to Buffalo. It would cost them Cozens/Power, a 1st and probably someone like Quinn or Peterka. Detriot might be another landing spot but again the price is going to be ridiculously high. Like Kasper, Wallinder/Evidsson, and another A asset.

Maybe a Aho and a prospect like Morrow for Petey swap might work but you are just re-arranging the landchairs at that point

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sure you run that way.. i will go the other way. I dont make many comments.. but outside of that feel good drama story of horvat and his skating coach he was the same player every year and a meh one at that. I didnt see any true passion or desire as you see with others.. no emotion not one thing.. same personality as a piece of wood..

I see improvements with pettersson.. let alone a drastically more impact player. There have also been several comments from him about winning.. everythimg is being phrased properly by him.. he is saying get your shit together management because if i dont like it im gone WITHOUT saying the obvious to the fans.. of course in my opinion

Horvat just made a comment about winning a few weeks ago, publicly...

Anyway, the example of Horvat is used to outline action vs hearsay or conjecture. I don't care what Pettersson says, or Horvat or Hughes. I care about what they do. Horvat wanted to re-sign here despite all of the losing (insider rumours). That same thinking should apply to Pettersson unless we learn otherwise. If not, then we're using conjecture to form the basis of a plan, not third party evidence.

To hit this point home: Dhaliwal said both Pettersson's management and team management are very willing to negotiate this summer for a long-term deal. Why? Why doesn't Pettersson wait to sign during the season instead? That way he'll see if the team wins or loses, and can make an informed decision. That's what I would do if winning next year was paramount.

 

[andora]

Horvat just made a comment about winning a few weeks ago, publicly...

Anyway, the example of Horvat is used to outline action vs hearsay or conjecture. I don't care what Pettersson says, or Horvat or Hughes. I care about what they do. Horvat wanted to re-sign here despite all of the losing (insider rumours). That same thinking should apply to Pettersson unless we learn otherwise. If not, then we're using conjecture to form the basis of a plan, not third party evidence.

To hit this point home: Dhaliwal said both Pettersson's management and team management are very willing to negotiate this summer for a long-term deal. Why? Why doesn't Pettersson wait to sign during the season instead? That way he'll see if the team wins or loses, and can make an informed decision. That's what I would do if winning next year was paramount.

I am pretty sure peteys camp could be getting a gillis-esque powerpoint about the plan to help sell it, But he could wait until the season too.. whichever.

All star players say that.. all of them. Willing to negotiate means nothing as far as i am concerned. I am willing to negotiate going back to my old job i left due to unethical immature leadership - but my demands are Pejorative Slured..

My personal opinion is that Bo's disinterested emotionless play on the ice for years left all there was left to be said about winning..

 

[RandV]

My personal opinion is that Bo's disinterested emotionless play on the ice for years left all there was left to be said about winning..

I don't see how you can really blame Horvat for that. It's not like he's an elite player that can carry a team himself, and he was here through the entire duration of the Jim Benning era. Cumulatively we were the 6th worst team in the league through that stretch. Not the best way for a professional athlete to spend 8 years.

 

[gringo]

The team is shit and will continue to be so.

EP won’t sign a new deal.

Will need to trade him by next offseason.

If this happens there should be no quarter for management ownership media and fans that absolutely push the same insane plan over and over again.

Pressure on this team next October will be insane. Playoffs or bust!

 

[andora]

I don't see how you can really blame Horvat for that. It's not like he's an elite player that can carry a team himself, and he was here through the entire duration of the Jim Benning era. Cumulatively we were the 6th worst team in the league through that stretch. Not the best way for a professional athlete to spend 8 years.

Then he was broke .. and got sold

 

[Bleach Clean]

I am pretty sure peteys camp could be getting a gillis-esque powerpoint about the plan to help sell it, But he could wait until the season too.. whichever.

All star players say that.. all of them. Willing to negotiate means nothing as far as i am concerned. I am willing to negotiate going back to my old job i left due to unethical immature leadership - but my demands are Pejorative Slured..

My personal opinion is that Bo's disinterested emotionless play on the ice for years left all there was left to be said about winning..

The type of negotiation matters. Whether they are far apart or close, the types of numbers, the frequency of talks, the rumoured term(s) etc... It's all information to gauge his willingness to re-sign. All more pertinent than his words to the media/fans.

Horvat did most of what he could do, realistically. The fact that Benning was an absolute tire fire is no fault of his.

 

[andora]

The type of negotiation matters. Whether they are far apart or close, the types of numbers, the frequency of talks, the rumoured term(s) etc... It's all information to gauge his willingness to re-sign. All more pertinent than his words to the media/fans.

I view all of it as non committal

Horvat did most of what he could do, realistically. The fact that Benning was an absolute tire fire is no fault of his.

As an ok middle player i agree..

 

[sting101]

Yet the team keeps trying to trade Miller, even after the Horvat trade.

1. Must win to keep Pettersson

2. Trade Miller and Horvat to make team worse.

3. ?????

4. Profit

The team isn't winning games if they trade Miller, yet they keep trying to do it. Over and over again.

You should always be looking at making moves that help your teams timeline.

Rumours i heard were that they would have entertained Miller to the Pens if they got the 2 first rounders plus they could relay Zucker to a playoff team AND be able to move some of the returns Plus maybe even our 1st for a Lundell or Hayton replacement.

Is that not something you would want your management team trying to do? And none of that is a rebuild move. It would be providing cap space and finding a longer term solution at 2C without sabotaging progress for the 2 stars of this team no?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I view all of it as non committal

Ok, so then non-committal if he doesn't re-sign, but fully committed if he signs. Do I have that right?

 

[andora]

Ok, so then non-committal if he doesn't re-sign, but fully committed if he signs. Do I have that right?

I'm not interested in going through some debate class trap on this. I believe that they need to work their asses off and put together something to really sell him on what they're going to do and he needs to agree with it before he signs. Therefore it would not surprise me if nothing gets done in the summer months.

And if I were to answer your question honestly, if he is offered a fantastic contract that is Agent says that's a f***ing good contract sign it and he signs it no I don't think that means automatically that he is 100% committed. That might buy a couple years maybe but he could ask for a trade and force himself out just as easy... he could also be 100% in one year and things change and the next season he isnt..

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm not interested in going through some debate class trap on this. I believe that they need to work their asses off and put together something to really sell him on what they're going to do and he needs to agree with it before he signs. Therefore it would not surprise me if nothing gets done in the summer months.

And if I were to answer your question honestly, if he is offered a fantastic contract that is Agent says that's a f***ing good contract sign it and he signs it no I don't think that means automatically that he is 100% committed. That might buy a couple years maybe but he could ask for a trade and force himself out just as easy... he could also be 100% in one year and things change and the next season he isnt..

That's the issue with this overarching debate: If he's not re-signed, he's not committed. If he's re-signed, he could still ask for a trade, so still not committed. At almost every step he's not a constant building block here, even when signed to a long-term deal. Then, he's held up as the scarecrow for not taking a longer termed approach.

Meanwhile, Naslund re-signs after the Canucks falter to get the Twins. Mackinnon/Landeskog didn't jump ship when COL fell to get Makar. Lecavalier is there when TBay gets Stamkos+Hedman. Pretty sure Larkin is not asking for a trade after Stevie Y sold at the deadline, Horvat didn't even request a trade etc... In theory, any player could bolt, even with a long-term deal in place. In practice, how often does a core player pull a Tkachuk/Eichel? Very seldom.

In general, players aren't as fickle as you are making them out to be. If he's re-signed here, that shows a major commitment level to win here.

 

[andora]

That's the issue with this overarching debate: If he's not re-signed, he's not committed. If he's re-signed, he could still ask for a trade, so still not committed. At almost every step he's not a constant building block here, even when signed to a long-term deal. Then, he's held up as the scarecrow for not taking a longer termed approach.

Meanwhile, Naslund re-signs after the Canucks falter to get the Twins. Mackinnon/Landeskog didn't jump ship when COL fell to get Makar. Lecavalier is there when TBay gets Stamkos+Hedman. Pretty sure Larkin is not asking for a trade after Stevie Y sold at the deadline, Horvat didn't even request a trade etc... In theory, any player could bolt, even with a long-term deal in place. In practice, how often does a core player pull a Tkachuk/Eichel? Very seldom.

In general, players aren't as fickle as you are making them out to be. If he's re-signed here, that shows a major commitment level to win here.

I don't think I'm saying anything definitively about what I think he is or is not doing. I just find the publicized comments to be very well worded in a sense that he has avoided saying he wants to be here long term has to win as a Canuck blah blah blah.

I also think it's fair to assume that a lot more of trade requests and unhappiness and wanting to leave goes on then we know it just doesn't make it out there.

 

[4th line culture]

No they are. Remember the time when MacKinnon and Landeskog forced their way out of Colorado because they finished last in the NHL with like 40ish points in 2017? How they hated adding Cale Makar to the team as a result.

Or when Scheifele and Wheeler forced their way out of Winnipeg because that loser organization did so bad in 2016 that they ended up with the 2nd overall pick and added that bum Laine?

You MUST protect the feelings of your young stars, because they won't accept the chance of adding a superstar to their team if you struggle, but they will be perfectly happy if the team finish just out of the playoff though.

MacKinnon, Landeskog, wheeler and, scheifele are all well know for their love of video games. That could be why they were ok with going through such nonsense.