Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[gringo]

A positive I will note is that just 12 months ago Ryan Johnson was ridiculed on this board and on canucks Twitter and now he could just be the most promising executive in the organization of not one of the most promising execs in the western conference.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

I have no inside knowledge but a gut feeling I continue to have is Pettersson leaving regardless of what goes down.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A positive I will note is that just 12 months ago Ryan Johnson was ridiculed on this board and on canucks Twitter and now he could just be the most promising executive in the organization of not one of the most promising execs in the western conference.

Yeah.

Clearly the best thing to happen under the new management is what is going on at the Abbotsford Canucks.

Just to be rid of Trent Cull is a massive boon to our farm system as a whole.

 

[Vector]

Yeah.

Clearly the best thing to happen under the new management is what is going on at the Abbotsford Canucks.

Just to be rid of Trent Cull is a massive boon to our farm system as a whole.

And that’s selling it short. It’s one thing to move on from Cull, who was put in a terrible situation with no support so I think his negative reputation is a bit overblown, and another to replace him with a guy like Colliton who is thriving in this role. Adding to it, the Sedins are taking to their development roles the same as they have with everything else, with the utmost effort. Also have another full-time skills coach in Svejkovsky.

If there’s one aspect of this management team that is unanimously a success, it’s the immediate restructuring and growth of the development pipeline. Samuelsson and Komisarek, from what I’ve read, are extremely active in their regions and spend a lot of time getting players prepared for moving up a level. Then at the AHL they have the coaches and 4 additional instructors (Sedins, Svejkosky, and Higgins). It’s very impressive and the results have been immediate.

 

[wavaxa2]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

Well then trade his selfish, whiny ass if that is his attitude. A team can't succeed with me-first players like that. This smug, stuck up asshole has never helped this team accomplish anything and yet thinks he is so damned special and precious. I'd love to see the Canucks get a haul for this loser.

 

[arttk]

Actually, a short rebuild around them has a better chance to keep them at the end of it (if we're talking an 6-8 year contact for Pettersson and an extension for Demko). It gives them the best chance to add impact players over term. What's debatable is whether the act of of collecting picks over 2 years will induce one of Pettersson, Hughes or Demko to request a trade out amidst each player's tenure. Meaning: the action itself, because no matter what they do (Hronek), they can't ensure a good team as result.

What you're talking about is the impact of the appearance of trying vs the appearance of not trying. I don't think players are this fickle, generally. The core of this team will drag it out of the basement, as we've just seen. They just don't have the supports around them... and that's what they need to build.

There is no such thing as a short rebuild. The shortest rebuild is like 4 years and Petey is going to be a UFA by then.

The only case where you can have a short rebuild is if you somehow end up with generational talents with like every single 1st and 2nd rounder you can acquire and have them all contributing by like year 3 which is beyond unrealistic.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

This should be a surprise to no one. His agent said earlier this year that he love Vancouver but hates losing. Pettersson himself made comments when he signed his last contract on seeing on where the team was at for the next extension. It’s funny that when we want to trade a veteran player with a family and kids, fans are shocked when they don’t waive their NTC because they prioritize stability for their families over playing in the playoffs again. But thin with hungry players just entering their primes that don’t have families, and have only experienced losing in the early part of their careers will want to stick around for a rebuild that will waste the first half of their careers.

This is from someone that is pro long-term building, but the time to do that around Pettersson has passed. It made sense to have a New Jersey like slow build when Linden wanted, or to take a step back after 2021 for a couple years. It’s just too late now.

 

[andora]

Well then trade his selfish, whiny ass if that is his attitude. A team can't succeed with me-first players like that. This smug, stuck up asshole has never helped this team accomplish anything and yet thinks he is so damned special and precious. I'd love to see the Canucks get a haul for this loser.

I know right.. what a dick for wanting to win

 

[canuckking1]

The current approach means you have to buyout OEL. Can't half-ass it and keep 7.25M in deadweight on the roster. You'd also have to look at moving some of the struggling younger players like Pod and Hog as sweeteners to get rid of bad contracts. You also need to trade the 11th selection for an impact player because this club will need a lot of things to go right for them to make the playoffs as it is now.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This should be a surprise to no one. His agent said earlier this year that he love Vancouver but hates losing. Pettersson himself made comments when he signed his last contract on seeing on where the team was at for the next extension. It’s funny that when we want to trade a veteran player with a family and kids, fans are shocked when they don’t waive their NTC because they prioritize stability for their families over playing in the playoffs again. But with hungry players just entering their primes that don’t have families, and have only experienced losing in the early part of their careers don’t want to stick around for a rebuild that will waste the first half of their careers.

This is from someone that is pro long-term building, but the time to do that around Pettersson has passed. It made sense to have a New Jersey like slow build when Linden wanted, or to take a step back after 2021 for a couple years. It’s just too late now.

I still think that 2019 was the right time to go all in for the playoffs...EP,QH,Horvat,Markstrom,Edler,Boeser,Tanev...All the key pieces were there to make a splash..Other than the Miller trade, which was home run...there were a lot of missed targets on complimentary players (which the team is still dealing with).

The slow build should have commenced in 2013-15.

The current approach means you have to buyout OEL. Can't half-ass it and keep 7.25M in deadweight on the roster. You'd also have to look at moving some of the struggling younger players like Pod and Hog as sweeteners to get rid of bad contracts. You also need to trade the 11th selection for an impact player because this club will need a lot of things to go right for them to make the playoffs as it is now.

Multiple accredited sources around the team have said that a 'buy out' isnt happening.

Its a waste of energy to keep regurgitating it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Dhaliwal reported literally yesterday that Pettersson will end contract negotiations and Tkachuk his way out if the team doesn’t turn things around next year. But keep going with Pettersson magically staying through a rebuild.

I saw that same radio hit, he said that when Tkachuk saw Gaudreau leave, then he requested out at the start of his new contract. The parallel for Pettersson would be if Hughes left, not the team turning it around.

In other words, the rebuild around the core still keeps the core in place. As long as they’re here, the tether for all core players remains in place.

Just curious, where do you place their probability of creating a consistent playoff team starting next year? (One that will be a contender to a cup eventually thereafter)

 

[MS]

I saw that same radio hit, he said that when Tkachuk saw Gaudreau leave, then he requested out at the start of his new contract. The parallel for Pettersson would be if Hughes left, not the team turning it around.

In other words, the rebuild around the core still keeps the core in place. As long as they’re here, the tether for all core players remains in place.

Just curious, where do you place their probability of creating a consistent playoff team starting next year? (One that will be a contender to a cup eventually thereafter)

You just keep arguing for something that obviously isn't possible or happening. And I have absolutely no idea how to respond to it. Doing a long draft pick based rebuild and keeping Pettersson simply is not happening. It's fantasyland stuff.

I have no idea what next year looks like until we see the moves they make this summer. I could end up being optimistic or pessimistic depending how well they do on clearing salary and bringing in quality depth. If they make the moves they've made set the course they're setting and then track back all of OEL/Boeser/Myers then I won't be optimistic at all and I'll be very critical of management. If they clear those guys and fill in 2 or 3 or 4 legit quality players in their place, I'll be pretty optimistic.

 

[Hodgy]

You just keep arguing for something that obviously isn't possible or happening. And I have absolutely no idea how to respond to it. Doing a long draft pick based rebuild and keeping Pettersson simply is not happening. It's fantasyland stuff.

I have no idea what next year looks like until we see the moves they make this summer. I could end up being optimistic or pessimistic depending how well they do on clearing salary and bringing in quality depth. If they make the moves they've made set the course they're setting and then track back all of OEL/Boeser/Myers then I won't be optimistic at all and I'll be very critical of management. If they clear those guys and fill in 2 or 3 or 4 legit quality players in their place, I'll be pretty optimistic.

Are you optimistic about them clearing cap space after years and years of our management trying and failing to do that?

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I still think that 2019 was the right time to go all in for the playoffs...EP,QH,Horvat,Markstrom,Edler,Boeser,Tanev...All the key pieces were there to make a splash..Other than the Miller trade, which was home run...there were a lot of missed targets on complimentary players (which the team is still dealing with).

The slow build should have commenced in 2013-15.


Multiple accredited sources around the team have said that a 'buy out' isnt happening.

Its a waste of energy to keep regurgitating it.

I agree that there were good pieces, and we were getting great value on ELCs. However there was so much bad cap, and taking a big step back in 2021 was easily predictable. A longer term reproach would of wasted Pettersson's and Hughes' ELCs but we would better positioned when the team turned a corner.

 

[Diogenes92]

I know right.. what a dick for wanting to win

Then maybe he should do something about it and carry the team into the playoffs.

 

[RandV]

Are you optimistic about them clearing cap space after years and years of our management trying and failing to do that?

How long has current management been running the team again?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The team is shit and will continue to be so.

EP won’t sign a new deal.

Will need to trade him by next offseason.

 

[RandV]

Just curious, where do you place their probability of creating a consistent playoff team starting next year? (One that will be a contender to a cup eventually thereafter)

Personally, for the first question I optimistically think the odds are good. For the 'contender' question, not so good. But that's always going to be the case regardless of what the team does.

 

[sting101]

This should be a surprise to no one. His agent said earlier this year that he love Vancouver but hates losing. Pettersson himself made comments when he signed his last contract on seeing on where the team was at for the next extension. It’s funny that when we want to trade a veteran player with a family and kids, fans are shocked when they don’t waive their NTC because they prioritize stability for their families over playing in the playoffs again. But thin with hungry players just entering their primes that don’t have families, and have only experienced losing in the early part of their careers will want to stick around for a rebuild that will waste the first half of their careers.

This is from someone that is pro long-term building, but the time to do that around Pettersson has passed. It made sense to have a New Jersey like slow build when Linden wanted, or to take a step back after 2021 for a couple years. It’s just too late now.

Exactly which is why all the bitching and whining about the moves this management has been doing (with direction in mind) should make sense to people yet we get people fighting for 10 pages in a entry draft thread that they should have done more to finish worse and keep the dysfunction rolling.

As sick of it as fans we are it's not our lives Go about 5X for the most hard core fans and thats how the players feel when the season is on and when they have to make decisions about their futures.

And for people dismissing Pettersson were talking along with Bure and the Sedins the best player to put on a Canucks jersey. You think it's smart to roll the dice on finding another one soon or ignore what he's been relaying to this teams management?

It's pretty clear and was once again made clear yet guys like MS are getting blasted for supporting the management team when it's pretty obvious that this is what has to be done.

 

[me2]

Exactly which is why all the bitching and whining about the moves this management has been doing (with direction in mind) should make sense to people yet we get people fighting for 10 pages in a entry draft thread that they should have done more to finish worse and keep the dysfunction rolling.

Yet the team keeps trying to trade Miller, even after the Horvat trade.

1. Must win to keep Pettersson

2. Trade Miller and Horvat to make team worse.

3. ?????

4. Profit

The team isn't winning games if they trade Miller, yet they keep trying to do it. Over and over again.

 

[Bleach Clean]

No they are. Remember the time when MacKinnon and Landeskog forced their way out of Colorado because they finished last in the NHL with like 40ish points in 2017? How they hated adding Cale Makar to the team as a result.

Or when Scheifele and Wheeler forced their way out of Winnipeg because that loser organization did so bad in 2016 that they ended up with the 2nd overall pick and added that bum Laine?

You MUST protect the feelings of your young stars, because they won't accept the chance of adding a superstar to their team if you struggle, but they will be perfectly happy if the team finish just out of the playoff though.

I know Horvat is mid-aged, not exactly young, but did anyone not find it interesting that he wanted to re-sign here despite the team's abhorrent record during his time here? Why?

I'm reasonably sure that his feelings weren't protected here the last 9 years...

 

[andora]

Then maybe he should do something about it and carry the team into the playoffs.

A lazy hollow counterpunch response

Yet the team keeps trying to trade Miller, even after the Horvat trade.

1. Must win to keep Pettersson

2. Trade Miller and Horvat to make team worse.

3. ?????

4. Profit

The team isn't winning games if they trade Miller, yet they keep trying to do it. Over and over again.

Was is confirmed that vancouver approached pittsburgh about miller?

And where else have they been trying to trade him this season

I know Horvat is mid-aged, not exactly young, but did anyone not find it interesting that he wanted to re-sign here despite the team's abhorrent record during his time here? Why?

I'm reasonably sure that his feelings weren't protected here the last 9 years...

I think it was more about wanting the retirement contract .. nothing more nothing less

 

[Bleach Clean]

There is no such thing as a short rebuild. The shortest rebuild is like 4 years and Petey is going to be a UFA by then.

The only case where you can have a short rebuild is if you somehow end up with generational talents with like every single 1st and 2nd rounder you can acquire and have them all contributing by like year 3 which is beyond unrealistic.

There really isn't a clear precedent for a bottom feeder re-tooling either. Unless, you count a team on the rise flopping and drafting high again.

We are in uncharted waters. There are 2 young building blocks here, with a negative balance in cap space, no help coming down the pipeline and terrible anchor contracts. It's a mish mash. Therefore, non-conventional means have to be employed.

 

[iFan]

I don’t buy the Pettersson wants out if we aren’t winning. We heard the same thing around Horvat yet he clearly wanted to stay… same with Miller and he re-signed. It’s just something for the media to talk about so they feel more important than they are.

 

[Bleach Clean]

You just keep arguing for something that obviously isn't possible or happening. And I have absolutely no idea how to respond to it. Doing a long draft pick based rebuild and keeping Pettersson simply is not happening. It's fantasyland stuff.

I have no idea what next year looks like until we see the moves they make this summer. I could end up being optimistic or pessimistic depending how well they do on clearing salary and bringing in quality depth. If they make the moves they've made set the course they're setting and then track back all of OEL/Boeser/Myers then I won't be optimistic at all and I'll be very critical of management. If they clear those guys and fill in 2 or 3 or 4 legit quality players in their place, I'll be pretty optimistic.

We are discussing the optimal path in theory. The team has already committed to win now. They did it with the Hronek trade. They are on the tracks. I know they aren't going to rebuild around Pettersson-Hughes for 2 years. (Not long at all)

But should they have? Absolutely, to my mind. They didn't have to do anything but keep the two 1sts they already had this year. Year 1 done. Then next year, try to collect picks. After that, game on. It's really no different than your 'two years and fail, rebuild", just flipped.