Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

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they're adding wright and have 20 mil in cap space. the only player they're losing is soucy and there's a decent chance he returns
They have to sign Dunn, that’s probably 7 million gone. Then they need another 8 guys for 14 million.

They need a couple dmen. Their scoring probably doesn’t keep up given how lucky they were this year. Goaltending still sucks.

It’s very very hard to improve a team much.
 
they're adding wright and have 20 mil in cap space. the only player they're losing is soucy and there's a decent chance he returns
Capfriendly.com lists them with $20.47M cap space next season but they're right under the cap now and more effectively the guys they have expiring are Doonskoi, Donato, Soucy, and Jones which is only a little under $10M cap space. A pay raise to Dunn and bonus payouts to Beniers and there really isn't enough left for a big impact move with that cap space. Shane Wright will be joining the team but as a 19 year old rookie he's not likely to be immediately better then the handful of 30 year old vets they already have contributing to the teams success, So kind of a drop in the bucket.

They're certainly the prime candidate to knock out of the playoffs in the Pacific division next season, with nothing really remarkable about the team just a lot of good but not great players playing well as a team at the moment. The roster for this seasons 100 point team really isn't that different than last seasons 60 point team.
 
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They're certainly the prime candidate to knock out of the playoffs in the Pacific division next season, with nothing really remarkable about the team just a lot of good but not great players playing well as a team at the moment. The roster for this seasons 100 point team really isn't that different than last seasons 60 point team.

i'm not saying they're going to be better. i'm just saying they're a 100 point team and there's no good case they'll be worse next year. counting them out of the playoff picture is way premature
 
i'm not saying they're going to be better. i'm just saying they're a 100 point team and there's no good case they'll be worse next year. counting them out of the playoff picture is way premature

They were a bubble team that got hot and stayed lucky all year. They will be a bubble team again next year. If they can fix their goaltending they can upgrade that a step. Then again if the luck reverses they could be sub 80.
 
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They were a bubble team that got hot and stayed lucky all year. They will be a bubble team again next year. If they can fix their goaltending they can upgrade that a step. Then again if the luck reverses they could be sub 80.
Goaltending is a sideshow anyway unless you have a stud.. but if beniers and borgen take the next step and dunn maintains they will be good

Good enough to stay in games is a knack
 
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With us rounding towards the end of the season, it's truly wild what a wasted year this has been. Every possible silver lining from this absolute stinker comes with an immediate caveat that seems to make the failure and disappointment less worth it.

- It has been one of the most disheartening years I can remember, with genuine failure across the team at many levels, which usually leads to at least a high draft pick in the draft, made especially exciting with a local, sure-fire superstar at the top of the draft. BUT, the Canucks played the wheels off their best players down the stretch when there was zero chance of making the playoffs in a cynical attempt to change the narrative around the season and they demolished their lottery chances.
- During a period in which the stated goal of the team was to compete, the team was forced to trade away their captain and leading goalscorer due to misallocation of the cap, which at least hopefully leads to great assets! BUT they turned around and traded the premium asset from that deal + a high second for a defender at the peak of his value, in a move that looks like a savvy team taking advantage of management's myopic interest in a player. Hronek looks to be a reasonably good player and a fit, but right now Akito Hirose looks like Bobby Orr next to the pupu platter we've been icing, so can't get too far ahead of ourselves on Hronek.
- The beloved-by-the-market coach was not getting the same reaction from players in his second season, so the Canucks moved on to a coach who seems to be getting a better reaction. BUT in doing so, they absolutely embarrassed themselves and immensely disrespected a great coach and by all accounts a wonderful man in the process, stringing him along and ensuring that this went down in the messiest, most unnecessarily unprofessional and cruel way possible.
- After finally shit-canning one of the most stupid, insular and close-minded front offices in the history of the league, the Canucks made commendable efforts to bring in a diverse, intelligent, capable crew into the FO. BUT they found themselves embroiled in controversy early in the year when a f***ing human rights complaint was levied against them by a staffer, which is just never a great look, and unfortunately does not seem out of step for one second for the people who own this team.

We head into the offseason with the sole goal of needing to resign Pettersson, no matter the cost, and part of that is needing to demonstrate to him that there is a runway to future personal and team success in Vancouver. However, we have a team that is structured in such a way that building a legitimate contender will require unending front-office excellence and essentially batting 1.000 on all moves moving forward in order to actually compete in Pettersson's window, which is unreasonable to expect for any management group, let alone this one which has already shown itself to be prone to pretty catastrophic errors. I genuinely fear that Pettersson re-signing with the Canucks will just make him a much better Horvat 2.0, a beloved player in the market who can't push the team up a mountain himself, and when he eventually leaves after giving his all the market will turn on him as a turncoat or someone who was overhyped and not really that good after all. Pessimism is the only thing batting 1.000 in Vancouver, and I will continue on this path until shown a reason to believe otherwise
 
With us rounding towards the end of the season, it's truly wild what a wasted year this has been. Every possible silver lining from this absolute stinker comes with an immediate caveat that seems to make the failure and disappointment less worth it.

- It has been one of the most disheartening years I can remember, with genuine failure across the team at many levels, which usually leads to at least a high draft pick in the draft, made especially exciting with a local, sure-fire superstar at the top of the draft. BUT, the Canucks played the wheels off their best players down the stretch when there was zero chance of making the playoffs in a cynical attempt to change the narrative around the season and they demolished their lottery chances.
- During a period in which the stated goal of the team was to compete, the team was forced to trade away their captain and leading goalscorer due to misallocation of the cap, which at least hopefully leads to great assets! BUT they turned around and traded the premium asset from that deal + a high second for a defender at the peak of his value, in a move that looks like a savvy team taking advantage of management's myopic interest in a player. Hronek looks to be a reasonably good player and a fit, but right now Akito Hirose looks like Bobby Orr next to the pupu platter we've been icing, so can't get too far ahead of ourselves on Hronek.
- The beloved-by-the-market coach was not getting the same reaction from players in his second season, so the Canucks moved on to a coach who seems to be getting a better reaction. BUT in doing so, they absolutely embarrassed themselves and immensely disrespected a great coach and by all accounts a wonderful man in the process, stringing him along and ensuring that this went down in the messiest, most unnecessarily unprofessional and cruel way possible.
- After finally shit-canning one of the most stupid, insular and close-minded front offices in the history of the league, the Canucks made commendable efforts to bring in a diverse, intelligent, capable crew into the FO. BUT they found themselves embroiled in controversy early in the year when a f***ing human rights complaint was levied against them by a staffer, which is just never a great look, and unfortunately does not seem out of step for one second for the people who own this team.

We head into the offseason with the sole goal of needing to resign Pettersson, no matter the cost, and part of that is needing to demonstrate to him that there is a runway to future personal and team success in Vancouver. However, we have a team that is structured in such a way that building a legitimate contender will require unending front-office excellence and essentially batting 1.000 on all moves moving forward in order to actually compete in Pettersson's window, which is unreasonable to expect for any management group, let alone this one which has already shown itself to be prone to pretty catastrophic errors. I genuinely fear that Pettersson re-signing with the Canucks will just make him a much better Horvat 2.0, a beloved player in the market who can't push the team up a mountain himself, and when he eventually leaves after giving his all the market will turn on him as a turncoat or someone who was overhyped and not really that good after all. Pessimism is the only thing batting 1.000 in Vancouver, and I will continue on this path until shown a reason to believe otherwise
People keep acting like this is some big strike against the team when it sounds a lot more like she's whining about nothing because she's pretty extremely unprofessional.

But Canuck fans look for any excuse to whine and cry.


Horvat was traded because they don't think he's worth what he was asking for.
 
People keep acting like this is some big strike against the team when it sounds a lot more like she's whining about nothing because she's pretty extremely unprofessional.

But Canuck fans look for any excuse to whine and cry.


Horvat was traded because they don't think he's worth what he was asking for.
Saying people are looking for a reason to whine is extremely stupid, because no looking is required. If this whole complaint is a nonstarter, I'd say that still doesn't reflect well on the team because what level of due diligence is being done here in the end?

Horvat was traded because they allocated huge amounts of the cap to overpaid, not-good players, leaving them with a limited amount they could spend on him, and he didn't want to bend over backwards to take a contract he had very clearly outperformed. I dont even think it was the wrong move to trade him, but keeping Miller and trading Bo is right near the bottom of outcomes I had hoped for with this situation
 
Saying people are looking for a reason to whine is extremely stupid, because no looking is required. If this whole complaint is a nonstarter, I'd say that still doesn't reflect well on the team because what level of due diligence is being done here in the end?

Horvat was traded because they allocated huge amounts of the cap to overpaid, not-good players, leaving them with a limited amount they could spend on him, and he didn't want to bend over backwards to take a contract he had very clearly outperformed. I dont even think it was the wrong move to trade him, but keeping Miller and trading Bo is right near the bottom of outcomes I had hoped for with this situation
Hired someone.

Didn’t work out.

They throw a tantrum about it.

“This is the teams fault”


Yeah you totally aren’t desperately searching for any reason to whine and be negative.

They weren’t willing to give Bo what he wanted. They were a million+ apart. I don’t think they sign him even if Miller had another few years at 5 or if Petey was signed longer.
 
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End of the year speech.

We didn't meet our expectations for this year, we are committed to bringing a competitive style of play going forward and a winning atmosphere, the goal is to be playing in the playoffs and playing meaningful games. We made some moves this year that we feel were best for the team going forward to make us a better overall team and younger, we still have some work to do to get to where we want to be, but we believe we're on the right path. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
 
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People keep acting like this is some big strike against the team when it sounds a lot more like she's whining about nothing because she's pretty extremely unprofessional.
Its a leadership failure anyways. No matter how annoying you happen to find Doerrie.

If there is an issue like this it can be handled in a way that does not make your company look like shit. They failed to do so.

There is no way to spin this in to not being a complete and utter failure of leadership.
 
Hired someone.

Didn’t work out.

They throw a tantrum about it.

“This is the teams fault”


Yeah you totally aren’t desperately searching for any reason to whine and be negative.

They weren’t willing to give Bo what he wanted. They were a million+ apart. I don’t think they sign him even if Miller had another few years at 5 or if Petey was signed longer.
Thats an interesting point about Horvat..Was it a misallocation of funds, or did the team not want to go forward with both Miller and Horvat having simultaneous retirement deals.?....The team had a final number in mind (Bo's camp saw that as a deliberate lowball), and moved on.

Eiven given the teams cap strapped situation (not their fault)..I'm not convinced they were 'forced' to trade Horvat...They just didnt want to go there.
 
So obvious targets are another top 4 D and 3C.

Lots of talk about Gavrikov but I'm thinking Ryan Graves might be a better target. We need D man who can kill penalties & Graves is a go-to guy for NJ who's PK is 8th overall this season.
 
Its a leadership failure anyways. No matter how annoying you happen to find Doerrie.

If there is an issue like this it can be handled in a way that does not make your company look like shit. They failed to do so.

There is no way to spin this in to not being a complete and utter failure of leadership.
You can fire someone as professionally as you can and they still might feel like you did them wrong.

It’s just not fair to blame management before any rulings are made. Is it still on them if they can justify all their actions?
 
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Thats an interesting point about Horvat..Was it a misallocation of funds, or did the team not want to go forward with both Miller and Horvat having simultaneous retirement deals.?....The team had a final number in mind (Bo's camp saw that as a deliberate lowball), and moved on.

Eiven given the teams cap strapped situation (not their fault)..I'm not convinced they were 'forced' to trade Horvat...They just didnt want to go there.

I think it is pretty clear they chose gheir two centers out of the three. Horvat is the third best player of the three but will be paid as the 2nd best after next season.. yuck

So they turned an expensive luxury into a good prospext and a top 4 defenceman of need

I don't believe for one second they were forced to trade him due to cap misallocation or whatever other doomsday term gets used

So obvious targets are another top 4 D and 3C.

Lots of talk about Gavrikov but I'm thinking Ryan Graves might be a better target. We need D man who can kill penalties & Graves is a go-to guy for NJ who's PK is 8th overall this season.

Another good Target I would just be worried about term with him as he is quite slow already. Effective but slow
 
Thats an interesting point about Horvat..Was it a misallocation of funds, or did the team not want to go forward with both Miller and Horvat having simultaneous retirement deals.?....The team had a final number in mind (Bo's camp saw that as a deliberate lowball), and moved on.

Eiven given the teams cap strapped situation (not their fault)..I'm not convinced they were 'forced' to trade Horvat...They just didnt want to go there.
How is their situation “not their fault”? They didn’t need to keep Boeser and give him a raise for example.
 
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You can fire someone as professionally as you can and they still might feel like you did them wrong.

It’s just not fair to blame management before any rulings are made. Is it still on them if they can justify all their actions?
Yes. Its still on them.

This does way more damage to them than making a deal of any kind behind closed doors that keeps this from escalating to a lawsuit.

Obviously.

I think it is pretty clear they chose gheir two centers out of the three. Horvat is the third best player of the three but will be paid as the 2nd best after next season.. yuck

So they turned an expensive luxury into a good prospext and a top 4 defenceman of need

I don't believe for one second they were forced to trade him due to cap misallocation or whatever other doomsday term gets used

They kept a winger by accident.
 
Yes. Its still on them.

This does way more damage to them than making a deal of any kind behind closed doors that keeps this from escalating to a lawsuit.

Obviously.



They kept a winger by accident.
Sure..

hes been fine.. back to winning faceoffs and being more engaged. Personal preference.. i am fine running him at center with good fit wingers and so are they
 
Yes. Its still on them.

This does way more damage to them than making a deal of any kind behind closed doors that keeps this from escalating to a lawsuit.

Obviously.



They kept a winger by accident.

Its funny that winger has looked at his best at Centre in the last 3 years, and played better hockey then the Centre we traded... who is now making more money.
 
Sure..

hes been fine.. back to winning faceoffs and being more engaged. Personal preference.. i am fine running him at center with good fit wingers and so are they
5on5 liability that we are tied to.

A very very good top line winger but a liability at center.

Its funny that winger has looked at his best at Centre in the last 3 years, and played better hockey then the Centre we traded... who is now making more money.
Im not buying it.

He has been horrific 5on5 this year.

PP points.
 
5on5 liability that we are tied to.

A very very good top line winger but a liability at center.


Im not buying it.

He has been horrific 5on5 this year.

PP points.
what should i be looking at to tell me how bad he is relative to his peers. either whole season or from january 23rd.
 
Of course winning the Stanley Cup is the goal.

And when you have a young core group of elite players like we have now, you try to build around those guys to open a window to compete for a Cup.

As I've said many times, if two years from now the team still sucks and Pettersson is forcing his way out, then at that point the team will likely be forced to do a full rebuild. And if they don't do that at that point, at a point where it actually makes sense and is the correct course of action, then I will be critical.

To be living in video game tank land right now while the team has some of the most dynamic young players in the history of the franchise is, to me, absolutely idiotic. You to everything you can with those guys while you have them. If it fails, you only lose 2 years. We've already lost 10.

__________

On Kuzmenko, we'll never know but I'm pretty sure he verbally agreed to a 3-year wink-wink nudge-nudge deal last summer but they couldn't formally agree to the rest of it until mid-season this year. Same thing I think about the Kotkaniemi extension in Carolina.


This is OT, so @Vector please move this to the management thread if needs be.

Why do a full rebuild if/when Pettersson leaves? What does doing a full rebuild at that time get us that targeting a 25/26 year old player does not? Remember, you are not a cheerleader for draft position, you think pick surpluses are overrated, and you prefer NHL players over picks. And so, why prioritize the draft to fully rebuild at that time?

It is difficult to have a conversation about what to do around Pettersson-Hughes-Demko if you position the argument as A) Rebuilding around them means you lose them vs B) Re-tooling around them is not inherently win now (it is win now, relatively speaking). No one should accept the discussion being framed this way because there's nothing exchanged or lost with option B.

Instead, hold Pettersson as a constant regardless of what happens around him, rebuild or re-tool.
What then? To me, it's leveraging the draft and making smart signings elsewhere. For you, it's probably to deal into the best mid-aged players now, sacrificing the draft. Is one way inherently better? No. It's because we each assign the optimal outcome to our relative positions. I draft the best players and you trade for the best mid-aged players. However, realistically, with this management group, with this team's cap, the terrible pipeline... Your method is very unlikely to succeed. It no longer becomes an equal proposition. That's why people choose to liquidate around Pettersson-Hughes-Demko in the short term. It's so they can be bolstered the best later with current pain now.

All that said, their conservatism may lead to a middling strategy, which is the worst of all scenarios.
 
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