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Management Discussion | You can’t handle the Rebuild!

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valkynax said:
Well...my mom got work next day so I didn't wanna bug her. My wife is sleeping and I don't wanna bother her either (after that she said she slept super well, did not know at all that I was running in and out puking like crazy so...yay?). And I thought I should've just toughen it out.

In hindsight that was incredibly idiotic, definitely should have called 911 earlier and got to the hospital ASAP.
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That's the problem with puking, it could be anything and it is probably nothing. I did the same as you with sepsis. Vomited all night, and part of the next day. I just thought, maybe I shouldn't have binged that much ice-cream. It just didn't get better.
 
rypper said:
It's not like his value has gone down though. They'll get at least that this year too, why not try for more?
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That's not the point. He's a 33-year-old depth player. Great, he's worth roughly the same this year, that doesn't really matter to the fact they should have gotten a 2nd for him last year. What if he got a season-ending injury? And that move would have made a lot of sense given the franchise situation.
 
TruGr1t said:
That's not the point. He's a 33-year-old depth player. Great, he's worth roughly the same this year, that doesn't really matter to the fact they should have gotten a 2nd for him last year. What if he got a season-ending injury? And that move would have made a lot of sense given the franchise situation.
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Management didn't want to break up a contender, that is why he wasn't traded.
 
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To be fair after Boudreau was hired they looked & played some good hockey (Demko was fantastic as well) so I can understand not moving Schenn last year

This year has been an utter mess. My guess is the new coaches are having an overall negative influence on the game so once Boudreau is let go hopefully Yeo, Cull & King are shown the door as well
 
Delocatedfan said:
To be fair after Boudreau was hired they looked & played some good hockey (Demko was fantastic as well) so I can understand not moving Schenn last year

This year has been an utter mess. My guess is the new coaches are having an overall negative influence on the game so once Boudreau is let go hopefully Yeo, Cull & King are shown the door as well
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I don’t think we see change in coaching until the season is over. If this management accepts we are in free fall to the bottom (and a top five pick) why would they change coaches and risk a bump that improves their league standing and hurts their draft spot?
 
me2 said:
Management didn't want to break up a contender, that is why he wasn't traded.
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I would say they obviously valued the cap space saved for a cheap top 4 dman, as a team in cap hell. Also say they probably wanted his presence in the room, as we have heard how terrible it is and how he is one of the few good ones.
 
I think it's very understandable they held onto Schenn instead of that 2nd round pick. The obvious one is they value what he brings to the team and they fully expected the team to be competitive this year. Plus he was under contract this year, it's not like they were losing him for nothing.

They got a bit lucky in that Schenn is probably playing better this year than he did last year and I'm not sure they could have expected that.

I am on board with the general frustration though. The media rumors are that this management team is trying to recoup a 2nd round pick. Well, you could have had one here. Or not traded one to Chicago. Or maybe you traded Schenn last year and then Burroughs thrives in a bigger role this year and you can flip him as well and then you are up a few picks.

We are going to learn an awful lot about this management group between now and the trade deadline.
 
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Breakers said:
Their asset management and negotiation tactics are as shit as Benning.

true story
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Not defending their decisions, but it's hyperbole to say they've been as bad as Benning. Even if not a fan of the Miller / Boeser / Mikheyev signings or the way Horvat / Miller have been mishandled in terms of asset management, this is still nowhere near as bad as Benning's hits.

Now how they handle the opportunity we're forced into (Horvat, Schenn, Boeser trades) will determine whether they deserve more rope, but so far, it's not been good, but still miles and years before approachiing anything as bad as Benning (Kesler trade, Sbisa signing, Sutter trade and signing, Kassian/Prust trade, Gudbranson trade and signing, Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, OEL...)
 
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MarkMM said:
Not defending their decisions, but it's hyperbole to say they've been as bad as Benning. Even if not a fan of the Miller / Boeser / Mikheyev signings or the way Horvat / Miller have been mishandled in terms of asset management, this is still nowhere near as bad as Benning's hits.

Now how they handle the opportunity we're forced into (Horvat, Schenn, Boeser trades) will determine whether they deserve more rope, but so far, it's not been good, but still miles and years before approachiing anything as bad as Benning (Kesler trade, Sbisa signing, Sutter trade and signing, Kassian/Prust trade, Gudbranson trade and signing, Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, OEL...)
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I think the one thing that this regime has rubbed me the wrong way is, they tried to hype themselves up to the fans and have not done enough to back it up.

Perhaps a bigger plan will unfold this TDL and offseason, but I somehow doubt it.
 
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Breakers said:
Their asset management and negotiation tactics are as shit as Benning.

true story
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While I haven’t been a big fan of current management so far, this doesn’t seem fair or accurate.

Previous management had no problem losing assets to free agency while they were outside playoff contention (Hamhuis, Miller, etc.). Current management already proved they will deal UFAs with the Motte trade.

Previous management had no problems giving out $12 million contracts to bottom 6 forwards (Beagle, Roussel, etc.). Current management has been fairly frugal (Lazar, Joshua, etc.).

Previous management had no problem trading fairly high draft picks for reclamation projects (Vey, Baertschi, Pedan, etc.). Current management has gone for much lower risk transactions (Studnicka is probably the closest comparable).

Previous management appears to have rejected analytics and often overpaid for players based on their draft pedigree and outdated reputations (Gudbranson, OEL) while current management appear to be less trigger happy and not offering valuable assets for shitty overpaid players.
 
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Frankie Blueberries said:
While I haven’t been a big fan of current management so far, this doesn’t seem fair or accurate.

Previous management had no problem losing assets to free agency while they were outside playoff contention (Hamhuis, Miller, etc.). Current management already proved they will deal UFAs with the Motte trade.

Previous management had no problems giving out $12 million contracts to bottom 6 forwards (Beagle, Roussel, etc.). Current management has been fairly frugal (Lazar, Joshua, etc.).

Previous management had no problem trading fairly high draft picks for reclamation projects (Vey, Baertschi, Pedan, etc.). Current management has gone for much lower risk transactions (Studnicka is probably the closest comparable).

Previous management appears to have rejected analytics and often overpaid for players based on their draft pedigree and outdated reputations (Gudbranson, OEL) while current management appear to be less trigger happy and not offering valuable assets for shitty overpaid players.
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Frugal?

They just gave out $100 million in contracts
Clearly we have differing definitions of frugal.

And that 2nd round pick to get rid Chicago is a Benning special
 
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Breakers said:
Frugal?

They just gave out $100 million in contracts
Clearly we have differing definitions of frugal.

And that 2nd round pick to get rid Chicago is a Benning special
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I was clearly referring to frugal in terms of depth positions as I specifically stated bottom 6 forwards. Benning loved giving out money to crappy depth players (Beagle, Roussel, Gudbranson, to name a few).

I agree the 2nd round pick trade was bad, but context also matters. They had a bad cap situation because of Benning. It was a last ditch effort to save the season to afford acquiring Bear, which clearly did not work out.
 
While it doesn't look great so far, I'll withhold my judgement until this coming off season. Key defining moves (or lack of) will be:
- Horvat sign or trade. What assets are acquired in a trade?
- Kuzmenko second contract. Do they sign him and, if so, for what term and cost?
- Do they shed the final year of Myers' contract or ride it out? If the former, what assets do they get/give up in the process?
-Do they gain cap flexibility particularly in view of the Pettersson contract need in 23/24
-Do they jettison Pearson's last year? What assets are acquired/given up in the process?
-Do they trade at least one of Garland or Boeser to begin rebuilding the prospect pool.
-Do they finally acquire a younger RHD with legitimate top 4 potential?
-Is there a real vision to fix the D?

To me this is the check list that will define success or failure of the management group. It won't all happen at once but there needs to be progress by Sept 2023.

Clearly, getting out from under OEL's contract would be a big win but it's also highly unlikely. They'll get a pass on that one if it doesn't get done.
 
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Frankie Blueberries said:
I was clearly referring to frugal in terms of depth positions as I specifically stated bottom 6 forwards. Benning loved giving out money to crappy depth players (Beagle, Roussel, Gudbranson, to name a few).

I agree the 2nd round pick trade was bad, but context also matters. They had a bad cap situation because of Benning. It was a last ditch effort to save the season to afford acquiring Bear, which clearly did not work out.
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Im not letting a GM and president who spend $100 million in the offseason off the hook for a bad cap situation

Don't say you're going to do something on Day 1, then double down on the mistake
 
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Breakers said:
Im not letting a GM and president who spend $100 million in the offseason off the hook for a bad cap situation

Don't say you're going to do something on Day 1, then double down on the mistake
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That 2nd round pick trade to dump Dickinson’s cap was largely for the benefit of this season (acquiring Bear). The Miller extension does not kick in until next season.

I agree that this management group has not been very good at managing the cap. But your argument about the 2nd round pick trade is not a very good one, as aside from some minor UFA signings and Mikheyev, this management group was stuck with the cap structure that Benning left them. The 2nd round pick was dealt for short term relief of those cap issues left by Benning, involving a player that Benning signed. Your criticism of the trade, as it concerns this season, is not very sensible.
 
Frankie Blueberries said:
That 2nd round pick trade to dump Dickinson’s cap was largely for the benefit of this season (acquiring Bear). The Miller extension does not kick in until next season.

I agree that this management group has not been very good at managing the cap. But your argument about the 2nd round pick trade is not a very good one, as aside from some minor UFA signings and Mikheyev, this management group was stuck with the cap structure that Benning left them. The 2nd round pick was dealt for short term relief of those cap issues left by Benning, involving a player that Benning signed. Your criticism of the trade, as it concerns this season, is not very sensible.
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Not a good one??????
Stillman is one of the worst players on this roster............ and he has TERM
 
Breakers said:
Im not letting a GM and president who spend $100 million in the offseason off the hook for a bad cap situation

Don't say you're going to do something on Day 1, then double down on the mistake
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This is true. It is really puzzling that they not only gave Miller a big contract but also signed Mikheyev. It seems contradictory.

While I don't like the term and AAV of Miller's contract, it is more understandable to want to retain an asset than bring in a new one for term and $$$ when a stated goal is to gain cap flexibility. Signing Mikheyyev actually made their jobs harder on the trade market because teams know they're up against the cap. It's already cost them a 2nd to get rid of Disckinson.
 
Breakers said:
I'd rather lose with Dickinson and the 2nd thank you very much

Did we weaponize that cap space?????? no
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I agree. I only disagree with your mischaracterization of the trade and how you keep moving the goalposts on your opinion it. As I said, it was clearly a last ditch effort to try to salvage the season that backfired. It’s pretty asinine to insinuate that the team’s cap issues this season are management’s fault, when the Miller extension hasn’t even kicked in. It’s just totally missing the point
 
Frankie Blueberries said:
I agree. I only disagree with your mischaracterization of the trade and how you keep moving the goalposts on your opinion it. As I said, it was clearly a last ditch effort to try to salvage the season that backfired. It’s pretty asinine to insinuate that the team’s cap issues this season are management’s fault, when the Miller extension hasn’t even kicked in. It’s just totally missing the point
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You literally are arguing against yourself
LOLOLOL
 
Frankie Blueberries said:
And you’ve equated current management to previous management, abandoning all nuance and context. Keep going with the straw men arguments though.
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You’re telling me a last ditch effort to save the season by playing musical chairs with bottom pairing defense and bottom pairing forwards while not creating cap space and blending assets didn’t work.


I’m shocked
Truly shocked
 
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