Management Discussion | You can’t handle the Rebuild!

[Peter Griffin]

I don't think it was ever a question of needing to prioritize one or the other. They could have signed both players in September. I provided the reasons why I think Miller was signed in the summer, and not Horvat, and its not because management thought one contract was a "priority" over the other.

But they essentially caved on Miller's demands but weren't willing to do the same with Horvat. To me, that seems like they prioritized signing Miller and figured Horvat would just fall in line.

They also couldn't really sign both players in the summer, not with the other moves they had already made. A big reason they haven't signed Horvat is because they can't fit him in without moving out other contracts first.

I don't really put much stock into that rumour without knowing the context (i.e., what Horvat was asking for). And again, I think it is obvious that the Canucks did try to grind Horvat, but I also don't think that was necessarily a bad idea. If you just give players what they want then you are essentially Jim Benning.

Unless Horvat and his agent came out and asked for an 8 x $10M extension, offering him a paycut through his UFA years is a slap in the face.

 

[Canucker]

I think there are plenty of examples to support the narratives of "patience=good" vs. "patience=bad"...having patience is great until it turns out it isn't.

 

[m9]

So why bring a failed event into the argument? We don't know a lot that I am sure happened. The was a rumor the Canucks specifically got their 3rd back to make an offer sheet, they could have successfully used that as a threat to a team.

He signed another player to an offer sheet which is basically one of the most aggressive roster moves you can make in the NHL. That is still something that got done. It is an official NHL transaction, unlike two GMs maybe talking about something at the draft.

And just as an aside, when you push back on things like this it makes your point look very disingenuous. Comparing trade rumours to an actual offer sheet signed as equivalencies in terms of aggressiveness is absurd. If you want to say that over the course of his time here that Gillis was patient in dealing with situations then that's fine. You can still say that without making bad comparisons and acknowledging the times he wasn't patient.

 

[Hodgy]

But they essentially caved on Miller's demands but weren't willing to do the same with Horvat. To me, that seems like they prioritized signing Miller and figured Horvat would just fall in line.

But like I said, Horvat wasn't coming off a huge career year so his agent never gave them an ultimatum. Miller's agent did. The circumstances are different. Again, I don't think they should have caved on Miller, but the same pressure wasn't there on Horvat, so I don't think you can say they "prioritized" Miller.

Unless Horvat and his agent came out and asked for an 8 x $10M extension, offering him a paycut through his UFA years is a slap in the face.

I agree generally, although this was effectively the Nugent-Hopkins contract so its not crazy. But anyway, I don't think its worth discussing given that its just a rumour.

 

[Peter Griffin]

But like I said, Horvat wasn't coming off a huge career year so his agent never gave them an ultimatum. Miller's agent did. The circumstances are different. Again, I don't think they should have caved on Miller, but the same pressure wasn't there on Horvat, so I don't think you can say they "prioritized" Miller.

They prioritized Miller's demands over Horvat's. No doubt the Gaudreau sitiation affected their decision.

I agree generally, although this was effectively the Nugent-Hopkins contract so its not crazy. But anyway, I don't think its worth discussing given that its just a rumour.

Then no "rumour" is worth discussing. To me it adds some perspective to the situation as it appears to me the team was seriously low-balling Horvat in negotiations.

 

[Hodgy]

They prioritized Miller's demands over Horvat's. No doubt the Gaudreau sitiation affected their decision.

Horvat never made the same demands as far as I know. And that makes sense because he wasn't coming off of a crazy career year like Miller. The circumstances are just too different to conclude the Canucks "priortized" Miller just becasue they ended up signing him.

Then no "rumour" is worth discussing. To me it adds some perspective to the situation as it appears to me the team was seriously low-balling Horvat in negotiations.

I think they started with the bottom end of the list of comparables which isn't crazy or anything.

 

[racerjoe]

He signed another player to an offer sheet which is basically one of the most aggressive roster moves you can make in the NHL. That is still something that got done. It is an official NHL transaction, unlike two GMs maybe talking about something at the draft.

And just as an aside, when you push back on things like this it makes your point look very disingenuous. Comparing trade rumours to an actual offer sheet signed as equivalencies in terms of aggressiveness is absurd. If you want to say that over the course of his time here that Gillis was patient in dealing with situations then that's fine. You can still say that without making bad comparisons and acknowledging the times he wasn't patient.

My push back is that it is double speak in the first place when we don't know what happened. We know the Canucks specifically got their third back so they could.

You are bringing up things for all we know the Canucks could have tried. Should the team be talked about for not being able to complete some transactions? Sure, no problem with that, and this current management has been far from perfect. So either way a failed event is a failed event.

The big move the Canucks made was signing Sundin, and that was a move that needed Cap space and being patient. One of those things they have proved and the other they haven't had.

 

[quat]

The issue with the way this management teams wants to build is that you have to be aggressive and they've shown to be anything but that. They preach patience, patience is perfect for a proper, drawn out re-build. What they're doing is only going to patiently watch the key members of this team age out before they actually put a proper team on the ice.

Exactly. They're telling the fans to be patient so they're not having to deal with the repercussions of their poor decisions all the while trying to sell the idea that fans won't accept a rebuild as the main reason they're following their present course of action. The implication seems to be that they would rebuild but fans won't accept that.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[valkynax]

Why is this team still so allergic to draft picks?

 

[DS7]

Why is this team still so allergic to draft picks?

Its certainly not allergic to trading them away

 

[Vector]

As I have been saying, patients.

Go to the hospital?

 

[valkynax]

Go to the hospital?

I was in the hospital for three days because of appendicitis, just came home yesterday.

Before that I was puking through the night for 8 hours, when I finally got myself to ER the doctor was surprised that I didn't die.

 

[LordBacon]

I was in the hospital for three days because of appendicitis, just came home yesterday.

Before that I was puking through the night for 8 hours, when I finally got myself to ER the doctor was surprised that I didn't die.

Thats one tough mofo right here

 

[Vector]

I was in the hospital for three days because of appendicitis, just came home yesterday.

Before that I was puking through the night for 8 hours, when I finally got myself to ER the doctor was surprised that I didn't die.

Truculence.

Seriously, holy crap! Glad you survived!

 

[valkynax]

Thats one tough mofo right here

Lucky, not tough. Had my appendix actually exploded during that 8 hours period I'd be speaking to you fine people through a Ouija board right now.

Still not as painful as watching the Canucks though.

 

[theguardianII]

Why is this team still so allergic to draft picks?

That was last year, he took a huge hair cut to be here. Maybe a handshake not to move him because it would have been for this year too.

IMO if he is traded it will be at the TDL and not before unless they offer up more than a 2nd.
Pretty clear he would come back after so a pure rental.
It would be good for the remaining players to see what hard work could get you, especially if he wins another cup.
Being him back and give him a retirement contract he is almost like a playing coach

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I think Schenn gets atleast a 2nd this year, potentially more.

So I’m fine with them declining the offer.

My secret wish and hope mgmt can somehow trade Miller to Philly for Provorov.

 

[valkynax]

I think Schenn gets atleast a 2nd this year, potentially more.

So I’m fine with them declining the offer.

My secret wish and hope mgmt can somehow trade Miller to Philly for Provorov.

Trading Schenn or not, I still don't see where the team's direction is at.

 

[DFAC]

I love Schenn but a second round pick is way more than he should fetch. Should be a no brainer trade

 

[rypper]

I love Schenn but a second round pick is way more than he should fetch. Should be a no brainer trade.

It's not like his value has gone down though. They'll get at least that this year too, why not try for more?

 

[m9]

Yeah, I think holding out on Schenn has worked out fine. He's played better this year but some teams may have valued the extra cheap contract year. I think a 2nd+ should still be on the table.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

He signed another player to an offer sheet which is basically one of the most aggressive roster moves you can make in the NHL. That is still something that got done. It is an official NHL transaction, unlike two GMs maybe talking about something at the draft.

And just as an aside, when you push back on things like this it makes your point look very disingenuous. Comparing trade rumours to an actual offer sheet signed as equivalencies in terms of aggressiveness is absurd. If you want to say that over the course of his time here that Gillis was patient in dealing with situations then that's fine. You can still say that without making bad comparisons and acknowledging the times he wasn't patient.

It did backfire and they offer sheeted Bernier where we recently gave up assets and had to sign him at a higher value. Every action has a repercussion. Hindsight Backes was a great target and turned out to be a team Captain in the NHL.

 

[me2]

I was in the hospital for three days because of appendicitis, just came home yesterday.

Before that I was puking through the night for 8 hours, when I finally got myself to ER the doctor was surprised that I didn't die.

Take that medical science! Well played sir.

 

[valkynax]

Take that medical science! Well played sir.

Well...my mom got work next day so I didn't wanna bug her. My wife is sleeping and I don't wanna bother her either (after that she said she slept super well, did not know at all that I was running in and out puking like crazy so...yay?). And I thought I should've just toughen it out.

In hindsight that was incredibly idiotic, definitely should have called 911 earlier and got to the hospital ASAP.

Or maybe I should have just grabbed a knife: