Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[AwesomeInTheory]

No I don’t think so.

My responses were to what they have done.

I speak in generalities because if I don’t and list a player it strays the discussion from my intended purpose.

I listed Weegar because I knew the poster I was responding to was only going to allow defensman who actually moved into the discussion but funnily enough he wasn’t permitted. Not that I care though. My intention wasn’t a discussion on specifics.

This seems really...confusing.

You're highly critical of no action and management sitting on their hands, but when pressed for any sort of insight or details on what could be done you have zero idea.

But you really want moves to be made and have the knowledge to know that big, sexy, spicy moves need to happen.

You just don't know what moves should be done.

But they really need to happen. Whatever they are.

But comparing it to Benning making big splashy moves isn't what you're arguing for.

But you have no idea what should be done. Just what should not be done.

But something needs to be done.

I don't know if you could sit on that fence any harder. This just reads like covering your own ass and not saying anything so you can immediately attack whatever does happen after the fact rather than any sort of realistic expectations.

Again, I wasn't asking for specific names, I was, in the past, asking you for what you would want to see happen.

 

[4Twenty]

This seems really...confusing.

You're highly critical of no action and management sitting on their hands, but when pressed for any sort of insight or details on what could be done you have zero idea.

But you really want moves to be made and have the knowledge to know that big, sexy, spicy moves need to happen.

You just don't know what moves should be done.

But they really need to happen. Whatever they are.

But comparing it to Benning making big splashy moves isn't what you're arguing for.

But you have no idea what should be done. Just what should not be done.

But something needs to be done.

I don't know if you could sit on that fence any harder. This just reads like covering your own ass and not saying anything so you can immediately attack whatever does happen after the fact rather than any sort of realistic expectations.

Again, I wasn't asking for specific names, I was, in the past, asking you for what you would want to see happen.

Maybe stop creating things. Stopped reading at spicy and sexy.

 

[RandV]

Again, not much to be impressed by so far and parallels to old mgmt can be made easily.
The 2 legal issues not being mgmt fault is irrelevant, the point is its similar to the last regime, still. Its not a mgmt fault, but a similar feeling to the old dysfunction still present is not a positive for the objective.

Anyone could play devils advocate and make a list of comparisons so far, that are perfectly reasonable.... which doesn't exactly meet my standards, clearly higher than other ppls ground level playground bar.

This is where I think some people are being nuts. Like the Benning regime was plain terrible, practically every summer he'd screw up and make things worse. Be critical of management if you want, but right now they're more akin to the Nonis regime. The Nonis plan before he was fired was landing Fabian Brunnstrom (Kuzmenko) and bringing back Naslund and Morrison (Miller, Boeser), but then he got canned and Gillis came in with a big shakeup, which is what people are wanting here. Benning was a generational bad GM, so far the new guys merely seem mediocre.

 

[racerjoe]

If you’d wanted to offer a 2nd to move salary you probably could have done it at any time.

The only thing timing oriented about this move is they got into injury trouble early and effectively had no choice due to roster inefficiency.

Also people should not compare this core to the Sedin core, which was a way better team.

I think the price came down and think MS made a good point about the Nemmec trade earlier that was 2 times the cost. I do agree that we could have moved some money at any point.

 

[canucksfan]

This is where I think some people are being nuts. Like the Benning regime was plain terrible, practically every summer he'd screw up and make things worse. Be critical of management if you want, but right now they're more akin to the Nonis regime. The Nonis plan before he was fired was landing Fabian Brunnstrom (Kuzmenko) and bringing back Naslund and Morrison (Miller, Boeser), but then he got canned and Gillis came in with a big shakeup, which is what people are wanting here. Benning was a generational bad GM, so far the new guys merely seem mediocre.

And while I haven't been overly impressed with the new management group, their situation sucks. No prospect pool, a shitty cap situation, and some terrible contracts we well.

I think their biggest mistake was keeping Boeser. The forward group is very good and not keeping him and targeting another defenseman would have been a huge plus. If Hughes gets injured, the defense is horrendous. And if they wanted to keep Boeser, they needed to get rid of another forward.

 

[Hit the post]

And while I haven't been overly impressed with the new management group, their situation sucks. No prospect pool, a shitty cap situation, and some terrible contracts we well.

I think their biggest mistake was keeping Boeser. The forward group is very good and not keeping him and targeting another defenseman would have been a huge plus. If Hughes gets injured, the defense is horrendous. And if they wanted to keep Boeser, they needed to get rid of another forward.

Not just Hughes though; if OEL gets injured, the defense is horrendous.

 

[theguardianII]

But you have no idea what should be done. Just what should not be done.

But something needs to be done.

I don't know if you could sit on that fence any harder. This just reads like covering your own ass and not saying anything so you can immediately attack whatever does happen after the fact rather than any sort of realistic expectations.

Again, I wasn't asking for specific names, I was, in the past, asking you for what you would want to see happen.

Thought I'd comment on this because I think I am similar.

It is confusion by opposing messages versus actions.
The rhetoric WAS not sign players into their late 30's, commit big money/cap, get younger, get under the cap, the defence was not good/deep enough, this was not a contending team and as such should not be capped out, to collect draft picks, etc, etc. A conservative plan to gain control of all aspects of managing so they had flexibility. Those were the messages being doled out.

But what happened is essentially the opposite in every category, doubling down on a failed group that is so weak injuries to two players are already being bandied about as possible causes for failure. But still they march on following some sort of non plan, still just reacting.

Honestly the team is becoming irrelevant to many in the fan base that are just seeing Benning 2.0 and failed BETA edition. Now still capped out, committed to a 8 mil 37 yr old player, no top 4 defence depth, no top 6 depth (according to two injuries crippling their chances at a playoff spot) and still playing for a wild card spot. One injury to Demko for 10 games and they are toast.

Ya, it is hard to say what they should do, I don't think they know either hence the cookie cutter interviews that leave everything up to interpretation either good or bad and the sports shows love to back the team so they can get guests on their shows. That means the team could be on the rails to doom and those shows will dwell on how good Pettersson or Demko was in a 4 - 1 loss.

What are they doing? Going all in again, trading draft picks to solidify a proven loser? Projected points when healthy will not get them into the playoffs and then when there what? Lose 4 straight to an improved Calgary, Edmonton or LA and then Colorado?

If anything could happen in the playoffs every team would have the same odds of winning and gambling houses would go tits up.

 

[canucksfan]

Not just Hughes though; if OEL gets injured, the defense is horrendous.

True.

I forgot to add, what I don't like about the direction of the team, if they miss the playoffs again how do they improve the team? There will be less flexibility next off-season than this one. They have no prospects coming up either (not their fault).

 

[andora]

Thought I'd comment on this because I think I am similar.

It is confusion by opposing messages versus actions.
The rhetoric WAS not sign players into their late 30's, commit big money/cap, get younger, get under the cap, the defence was not good/deep enough, this was not a contending team and as such should not be capped out, to collect draft picks, etc, etc. A conservative plan to gain control of all aspects of managing so they had flexibility. Those were the messages being doled out.

But what happened is essentially the opposite in every category, doubling down on a failed group that is so weak injuries to two players are already being bandied about as possible causes for failure. But still they march on following some sort of non plan, still just reacting.

Honestly the team is becoming irrelevant to many in the fan base that are just seeing Benning 2.0 and failed BETA edition. Now still capped out, committed to a 8 mil 37 yr old player, no top 4 defence depth, no top 6 depth (according to two injuries crippling their chances at a playoff spot) and still playing for a wild card spot. One injury to Demko for 10 games and they are toast.

Ya, it is hard to say what they should do, I don't think they know either hence the cookie cutter interviews that leave everything up to interpretation either good or bad and the sports shows love to back the team so they can get guests on their shows. That means the team could be on the rails to doom and those shows will dwell on how good Pettersson or Demko was in a 4 - 1 loss.

What are they doing? Going all in again, trading draft picks to solidify a proven loser? Projected points when healthy will not get them into the playoffs and then when there what? Lose 4 straight to an improved Calgary, Edmonton or LA and then Colorado?

If anything could happen in the playoffs every team would have the same odds of winning and gambling houses would go tits up.

But in their position the goal of making the playoffs cant be dismissed.. that is the next logical step in where they are..

Whatever happens if they get in happens but it is still important to get there considering their build and direction

 

[theguardianII]

But in their position the goal of making the playoffs cant be dismissed.. that is the next logical step in where they are..

Whatever happens if they get in happens but it is still important to get there considering their build and direction

The next logical step should be looking 3 years into the future. As it stands now they will be even more needful of top defencemen and have an 8 million dollar 33 year old that gets point more by will than skill. And will can be all there but the legs aren't and he isn't the fastest or best skater now.

Will Pettersson even resign here with the mess that it looks like in 3 years?

The goal of making the playoffs for this group, IMO, is merely for ticket sales, sure they might have an outside chance but the writing is on the wall already.

Two injuries to forwards and the talk is not glowing, they will be dependent upon special teams, already touting the PP in the top five to be successful (DUH!) and all the players having career years again.

No, this looks like nothing more than applying bandaids to a wounded team and still going all out for a possible playoff spot.

They don't even have enough cap space to go after some of the waivered players

They will start the year without Myers, lots of posters cheer at that thought, but who will get his 20+ minutes a game? Wolanien? He got waived, Burroughs?, Poolman? Then there is Boeser, is it really his hand? Or his wrist that he has trouble with for 4 years? Same side. Then the new guy, will he score 20+ goals when he comes back? And when is that?

The schedule! Last year they had an easy time of it, not this year. 5 game road trip and two back to backs in the first nine games.

Albeit they do face most of the teams that missed the playoffs last year so they should be around .500 anyway but that isn't representative of the top teams.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Maybe stop creating things. Stopped reading at spicy and sexy.

How would you know it’s “created” (what the hell does that even mean?) if you didn’t read it?

You’re stumping for change and big moves (in terms of roster impact and trading away multiple first rounders) but can’t articulate what would be a satisfying move.

I’m not “creating” anything, I’m just taking what you’ve literally said. Not my fault you’re being purposefully vague.

 

[4Twenty]

How would you know it’s “created” (what the hell does that even mean?) if you didn’t read it?

You’re stumping for change and big moves (in terms of roster impact and trading away multiple first rounders) but can’t articulate what would be a satisfying move.

I’m not “creating” anything, I’m just taking what you’ve literally said. Not my fault you’re being purposefully vague.

Ive never asked for spicy or sexy moves. The fact I’m getting taken to task for wanting changes is hilarious.

I want moves that improve the team.

Trading from a positional strength: wing, for cap flexibility to acquire a top 4 defensman.

I’m not being purposefully vague I’m speaking of the types of moves I’d be looking to make.

Because I’m not naming specific players my intention isn’t to be vague.

I like the move they made yesterday especially if it’s followed up with what im asking for. If it’s Garland who I regularly say I would trade, whether it’s for a zero cap lowish asset return or as a package with the picks for that Dman.

Chychrun is a name that’s available. People are speculating about Provorov. These are the types of moves. Top defenders on good deals.

I offer the picks b/c I don’t see much else to move that teams would value. Hoglander, Rathbone and and combo of picks.

If they’ve decided the team is going forward towards contention I think they need to do something like this. I’d rather talk about the idea than a specific player. That’s why I don’t list them.

 

[credulous]

the leafs did something really smart i wish the canucks had also had the foresight to do:



basically by waiting until the last minute to sign ZAR the leafs are able to get right up to the cap before using LTIR and maximize their space for the year. the canucks could have done this with dekeyser (or some other camp invitee) and then buried him in the AHL or maybe even have talked lazar or joshua into doing this

 

[Svencouver]

The hockey decision to keep Boeser will definitely be one that can only be judged by hindsight; but even as the regime's "worst" decision, it's pretty forgivable. It's not like they had the video game luxury of not considering the market for wingers, or the optics of getting rid of a beloved teammate immediately following the worst year of his life.

 

[credulous]

the lightning one upped the leafs. by signing a 35+ ufa they were able to get some additional bonus cushion



really hope canucks management can show this kind of attention to detail going forward

 

[MS]

LOL at PC Labrie being in the news in 2022.

 

[joelCAMEL]

the leafs did something really smart i wish the canucks had also had the foresight to do:



basically by waiting until the last minute to sign ZAR the leafs are able to get right up to the cap before using LTIR and maximize their space for the year. the canucks could have done this with dekeyser (or some other camp invitee) and then buried him in the AHL or maybe even have talked lazar or joshua into doing this

I cannot understand a lot of what is on CapFriendly. What is, or was the amount that the Canucks could have done, before LTIR? Lazar signed for $1 mill, Joshua signed for $850,000

 

[credulous]

I cannot understand a lot of what is on CapFriendly. What is, or was the amount that the Canucks could have done, before LTIR? Lazar signed for $1 mill, Joshua signed for $850,000

they have a lot of latitude to adjust the amounts based on what roster they want to submit. one thing they could have done is started aman, karlsson, hoglander, rathbone and wolanin up and given either joshua or wolanin an extra 118k to get right to the cap. if you don't like the idea of giving it to a potential roster player then you can give it to someone on a 2 way deal like carson focht and use him to get close to ltir without actually spending any extra money

 

[joelCAMEL]

I cannot follow the fine details. The Cap is $82.5 million.

Toronto has a projected cap hit of $90.3mill and is over-spent by $7.8 mill. Who do they have going on LTIR?

Vancouver is over-spent by $5 mill and have Ferland on LTIR reducing it by $3.5 mill. And I understand they still have to shed $1.5 mill, to open the season.

 

[Vector]

I cannot follow the fine details. The Cap is $82.5 million.

Toronto has a projected cap hit of $90.3mill and is over-spent by $7.8 mill. Who do they have going on LTIR?

Vancouver is over-spent by $5 mill and have Ferland on LTIR reducing it by $3.5 mill. And I understand they still have to shed $1.5 mill, to open the season.

Short answer is Dermott will pretty much have to go on LTIR too.

 

[andora]

I cannot follow the fine details. The Cap is $82.5 million.

Toronto has a projected cap hit of $90.3mill and is over-spent by $7.8 mill. Who do they have going on LTIR?

Vancouver is over-spent by $5 mill and have Ferland on LTIR reducing it by $3.5 mill. And I understand they still have to shed $1.5 mill, to open the season.

i'm not sure what you're looking at for toronto, probably a bunch of players that capfriendly simply has on the pro roster.. but basically it came out today that when they send down Robertson, they will be compliant by $4 .. yes.. 4. they will then play opening night 1 man short assuming tavares is not ready (likely) - then qualify for emergency recall - then recall robertson.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Some creativity and forward thinking around the league.

Meanwhile in van its the same old paying 2nds for replacement level goons and minimal gains compared to just waiving players..

(Yeah yeah i know already wait and see if theres follow up moves, and if not wait and see wome more, save ur energy)

 

[andora]

they have a lot of latitude to adjust the amounts based on what roster they want to submit. one thing they could have done is started aman, karlsson, hoglander, rathbone and wolanin up and given either joshua or wolanin an extra 118k to get right to the cap. if you don't like the idea of giving it to a potential roster player then you can give it to someone on a 2 way deal like carson focht and use him to get close to ltir without actually spending any extra money

How are you giving them extra money after training camp?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Some creativity and forward thinking around the league.

Meanwhile in van its the same old paying 2nds for replacement level goons and minimal gains compared to just waiving players..

(Yeah yeah i know already wait and see if theres follow up moves, and if not wait and see wome more, save ur energy)

I'm in the camp where I suspect any creativity or forward thinking will have to come from the guys below the president or GM.

Whether or not the 24 AGMs have a voice remains to be seen.

 

[andora]

Lol