LW/RW Denis Gurianov (2015, 12th, DAL)

[hockeey]

That is a fairly negative evaluation for a guy that the Dallas scouts were sky high on in terms of their view. Does anyone have any context (international tournament appearances, actual viewings) for Guryanov relative to his draft class. I mean comparing someone to Kucherov is pretty simplistic given that Kucherov was underrated when drafted and then developed sensationally well.

I've seen all of one game of his (from the U18s 2 years ago) and I watched every team in that tournament and I didn't see a more explosive player but then again I'm no expert. I saw power, speed, size, hands and compete all at a very high level.

Can someone step in here and provide a reference point to understand the difference between what I saw and this quote that I highlighted?

Thanks

That negative evaluation was about Nichushkin I believe. He's saying that Guryanov is a more talented version of nuke

 

[Captain Clutch]

Thanks, got it

 

[Atas2000]

Yeah, Kucherov didn't play in the CHL, he came over at 19 to play in the Q, after dominating the MHL and not getting time with CSKA Moscow. Those are actually facts, I don't know what you consider to be facts, but that actually happened. I know you want to stick to your anti-CHL narrative and want to ignore actual facts. Thankfully, I won't hold this as a perception by all Russians, just you.

Yeah 30 something games in the Q is playing in the CHL. Never change. I guess Tryamkin is a NHL product by now then. Who cares where he spent the previous seasons? He is in NA now, that's what matters.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yeah 30 something games in the Q is playing in the CHL. Never change. I guess Tryamkin is a NHL product by now then. Who cares where he spent the previous seasons? He is in NA now, that's what matters.

Did I ever say he was a pure CHL product? All I said was that the Lightening did this with Kucherov when he wasn't getting time at CSKA Moscow, and it worked out well in that case. In the case of Guryanov, it seems he is NA bound. If he isn't ready to play against men at the AHL level next year, the CHL is probably the best avalible option to help him rebuild his confidence and get a boatload of ice time. I'm sure the Stars would of preferred him being able to crack his KHL team's roster over him playing in the CHL, but that clearly hasn't worked out this year and may of hurt a year of his development.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

I don't think I would say substandard conditions for development. He started the season and even midway through the season was seeing 12-15 minutes a game at times. He played his way to lower minutes IMO. You don't really get a better opportunity in the KHL - bottom dwelling team, lots of ice to be had with lots of young players trying to make a name for themselves - Guryanov just didn't produce and was outperformed by other guys. It wasn't like he was being buried on a deep team like CSKA, SKA etc. opportunity was plentiful. I don't think running will help his cause either. Best option IMO is to stay the course with Lada, earn the ice time, have a big WJC, get back on track.

Yeah, this whole thing with the "substandard environment" is purely conjecture. Is the environment substandard or is Guryanov just not as good as advertised?

Guryanov had 25GP from 4:41 to 9:55TOI. What player is expected to produce with a 10:06TOI average for the season on a team scoring 2.00GPG?

Though he certainly could have played better this season, call it what you want, he could have been developed better either by Lada or somewhere else. There would be more clarity as to the questions raised here.

 

[Fantomas]

Guryanov had 25GP from 4:41 to 9:55TOI. What player is expected to produce with a 10:06TOI average for the season on a team scoring 2.00GPG?

Though he certainly could have played better this season, call it what you want, he could have been developed better either by Lada or somewhere else. There would be more clarity as to the questions raised here.

Maybe. But the low icetime can be interpreted in different ways. Clearly the coach felt that Guryanov did not earn his icetime, for whatever reason.

It would have been a good idea to see Guryanov getting more icetime in a lower league like the VHL. On that I agree.

 

[93LEAFS]

Any more word on what this kids situation is? AHL bound? Potential import draft pick?

 

[Passchendaele]

Is he even AHL ready?

I'd send him to the CHL first.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Is he even AHL ready?

I'd send him to the CHL first.

I think he's beyond the CHL level. ECHL at worst, if he's not ready for AHL.

 

[Flynn84]

Kucherov and Radulov played in the CHL at the same age though they were eligible for the AHL or ECHL.

 

[Zaddy]

I think playing in the CHL would be a very good stepping stone for him. Allows him to acclimatize to NA hockey in a league where he won't have much struggles which makes it easier and more comfortable. Then advancing to the AHL the year after that would be a natural step.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think he's beyond the CHL level. ECHL at worst, if he's not ready for AHL.

I think they'd rather him in the CHL over the ECHL. Teams have little control over the ECHL teams, and I doubt teams at that level are accustomed to dealing with young Russians. If they don't think he's AHL ready, I'd think the CHL is the best option to help him rebuild his confidence, hopefully have a good WJC and come back in September ready to either make the Stars or play in the AHL. He's probably above the CHL level, but I would think sending him to the ECHL and him struggling could seriously hamper his confidence in development. If he was coming off a good year it'd be a different story.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think they'd rather him in the CHL over the ECHL. Teams have little control over the ECHL teams, and I doubt teams at that level are accustomed to dealing with young Russians. If they don't think he's AHL ready, I'd think the CHL is the best option to help him rebuild his confidence, hopefully have a good WJC and come back in September ready to either make the Stars or play in the AHL. He's probably above the CHL level, but I would think sending him to the ECHL and him struggling could seriously hamper his confidence in development. If he was coming off a good year it'd be a different story.

Makes some sense, I was more just trying to say that I believe he's above CHL level in terms of his hockey. He's been very good in MHL, so I'd think his play would be similar in the CHL, and he's obviously eligible to play in the AHL or ECHL, but you are right that there might be some other things that the Stars are considering, if he decides to come to NA.

 

[serp]

A guy on reddit is claiming his KHL contract now has been terminated and he's looking for a move to NA. Claims insider information but no real sources for it but it wouldn't exactly be a stretch if it was true.

We'll see where he ends up next year. Development camp will give the Stars an idea where he's at.

 

[WhatWhat]

I think a CHL year would be good for him. That being said Dallas could also put him in the ECHL as they did with Desrosier. Regardless I'm happy to see him out of the KHL

 

[Atas2000]

I think a CHL year would be good for him. That being said Dallas could also put him in the ECHL as they did with Desrosier. Regardless I'm happy to see him out of the KHL

So you are basically happy because his career gets destroyed?

 

[serp]

So you are basically happy because his career gets destroyed?

I don't think there was that much of a career with Lada to destroy. Since he was drafted it was pretty clear he was going to move on sooner or later especially if he or the Stars weren't happy with how his career progressed with Lada. And after how he was used this year i can't imagine anyone was happy. Maybe he wasn't good enough but keeping him with the big team on the fourth line all year long wasn't exactly helping his career either.

 

[WhatWhat]

So you are basically happy because his career gets destroyed?

Why is his career destroyed. He filed to terminate his contract so he could come to north america... His career is just about to start

 

[TkachuckNotTkaczuk]

Atas, why do you think every Russian that comes to NA developmental leagues gets ruined? If anything it has proven to be the better move for them. They get to adjust to the NA game and try to make their way to the NHL, which is any hockey players ultimate dream. Not all are going to become NHLers, just like any Canadian, American kid. But to say they ruin their careers by doing so is simply wrong.

 

[serp]

At the very latest Guryanov was going to move to NA next summer anyway when his contract would've expired regularly. You can't expect him or the Stars to stay put for another year after this one was basically a lost year development wise.

 

[Atas2000]

Atas, why do you think every Russian that comes to NA developmental leagues gets ruined? If anything it has proven to be the better move for them. They get to adjust to the NA game and try to make their way to the NHL, which is any hockey players ultimate dream. Not all are going to become NHLers, just like any Canadian, American kid. But to say they ruin their careers by doing so is simply wrong.

Because I look at the stats. Prove to me that Russians that leave Russia early become great players. Who are those guys?

The "ultimate dream" NHL is also something that should end. The NHL is an arrogant regional league that hurts the development of hockey in the world.

I don't care a bit for the wellbeing of the NHL as long as they treat prospects like they do and hurt international competition.

I do care for the fate of russian players. For Guryanov to leave at this age will probably result in a major decline and he will be thrown away like a used tissue. That is is just about to happen to Nichushkin btw who was just as stupid as Guyanov.

 

[WhatWhat]

Because I look at the stats. Prove to me that Russians that leave Russia early become great players. Who are those guys?

The "ultimate dream" NHL is also something that should end. The NHL is an arrogant regional league that hurts the development of hockey in the world.

I don't care a bit for the wellbeing of the NHL as long as they treat prospects like they do and hurt international competition.

I do care for the fate of russian players. For Guryanov to leave at this age will probably result in a major decline and he will be thrown away like a used tissue. That is is just about to happen to Nichushkin btw who was just as stupid as Guyanov.

Its the league with the most high end talent and the league that pays the most by far. Why on earth would that not be a goal to reach for a young hockey star?


As for Russians that leave Russia early and become great players, you do know there are only 20 Russians in the league right now with more than 50 career points. Of those Semin came over at 19, Kucherov came over at 19, Ovechkin at 20 only because at 19 there was a lockout, Malkin at 20, Anisimov at 19.

It actually appears that many of the curent solid Russians left "early"

 

[Wats]

Why is his career destroyed. He filed to terminate his contract so he could come to north america... His career is just about to start

I think he means KHL career.

 

[serp]

Because I look at the stats. Prove to me that Russians that leave Russia early become great players. Who are those guys?

The "ultimate dream" NHL is also something that should end. The NHL is an arrogant regional league that hurts the development of hockey in the world.

I don't care a bit for the wellbeing of the NHL as long as they treat prospects like they do and hurt international competition.

I do care for the fate of russian players. For Guryanov to leave at this age will probably result in a major decline and he will be thrown away like a used tissue. That is is just about to happen to Nichushkin btw who was just as stupid as Guyanov.

You can't with a straight face tell me Guryanov's development with Lada was going well and he left for no good reason. The way this year went more than likely played a large role in him leaving . If you keep an 18 year old up with the mans team but bury him on the 4th line all season long you're not exactly doing him any favors.

By the way while us fans are somewhat close to giving up on Nichuskin i don't think the Stars are .

 

[fahad203]

I wonder if this was a good pick by Dallas considering what was available on the table