How are they not relevant if we are talking about making the roster and playing in the OHL? Because they have different 'roles'?
LW Quentin Musty - Sudbury Wolves, OHL (2023, 26th, SJS)
- Thread starter GermanSpitfire
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Debrincat, infamously.
I've been surprised in a bad way before, but I think he'll make the team next year, as he will be one of the team's most talented offensive top 6 forwards.
Usually guys like Musty or Debrincat get snubbed because the coaching staff doesn't project them in the top 6, and they don't fit the sandpaper 4th line profile that the org likes adding to the roster. Jason Robertson was projected top 6, so he made it.
I think the only way he's left off is if Eiserman beats him out, (And he'll have a big leg up being a year older) and even then he might still make it.
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William H Bonney
Registered User
Precisely. You're comparing guys competing for 4th line grinder roles against a guy who's competing for a top 9 scoring role. They're not competing against each other for the same roles, so if one makes it while another doesn't, highlighting that is not really relevant.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Sure, but on the flip side, who exactly is Musty competing for a role with? We only have four returning forwards in Smith, Perrault, Leonard, and Moore. Only two of those guys are wingers and if strictly necessary Leonard has the game to play a bottom-six style game.
Leaving Musty off the roster would have to involve them preferring 2+ wingers from the 2024 draft class. Or doing something wacky like forcing Moore into the top-6 and moving Hagens to wing.
If Musty is left off the 2025 WJC roster then it’s because USA Hockey doesn’t want him no matter how talented he is.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
As long as the coach doesn't just take the best 8/9 wingers, he's competing for like 4/6 spots.
This is his competition
Leonard-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Perreault-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Trevor Connelly-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL
Cole Eiserman-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL/for the NTDP
Mac Swanson-Not a projected high pick (due to height), but lighting up USHL otherwise
If Smith returns for another year, there's a good chance one of Moore or Hagens might be pushed to the wing too, especially if they give returner Nelson the benefit of the doubt in more than a 4C role. There's also always a surprise player or two that USAH falls in love with, and always a surprise snub.
It's going to be 50/50 for Musty I think. He kind of fits the categories they love to snub with being CHL, having a checkered history with USAH in the past, and being a player whose compete level and turnovers can be an issue.
This is his competition
Leonard-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Perreault-High pick returner having a great season in the NCAA
Trevor Connelly-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL
Cole Eiserman-Projected high pick having a great season in the USHL/for the NTDP
Mac Swanson-Not a projected high pick (due to height), but lighting up USHL otherwise
If Smith returns for another year, there's a good chance one of Moore or Hagens might be pushed to the wing too, especially if they give returner Nelson the benefit of the doubt in more than a 4C role. There's also always a surprise player or two that USAH falls in love with, and always a surprise snub.
It's going to be 50/50 for Musty I think. He kind of fits the categories they love to snub with being CHL, having a checkered history with USAH in the past, and being a player whose compete level and turnovers can be an issue.
William H Bonney
Registered User
I'm not advocating they leave him off. Just that if they do leave him off, it's not because of who they decided to choose for the fourth line. I would have him on the team. If he doesn't make it, it won't really have anything to do with him being in the CHL, though. It'll be due to fit / skating / compete concerns.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
“Fit” is a generic term for “we just don’t like him”.
I agree that it won’t be because of the fourth liners involved. I’m just saying that there is no real justification for leaving him off and if he is, it’s because USA Hockey has a problem with him personally. You don’t leave off a guy who put up 2 PPG in the OHL as an 18 year old because he doesn’t “fit”. You change the bottom of the lineup to make him fit. You can always make a guy that talented fit if you want. If they don’t, it’s because they didn’t want him on the team no matter how good he is.
William H Bonney
Registered User
WarriorofTime
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NHL teams already pay a transfer fee when they grab a kid from the CHL before his eligibility expires. But part of the transfer agreement forbids them putting 18 or 19 year olds in the AHL. They should just extend it to putting kids in the AHL as well, even if to start they want to just limit it to 1st round picks (very few 2nd-7th round picks are ready for the AHL at 19 as is and could stand to benefit from playing a big role in Juniors that season).
WarriorofTime
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I would question if USA Hockey is actively sabotaging itself if they left Musty off. He is arguably the best forward in the OHL at age 18. USA has a talent edge over any country that isn't Canada so they should be looking to bring 3 scoring lines again. Leonard-Smith-Perreault should be top line if all go back to college. Musty, Eisermann, Connelly should all be top 9 wingers as well. Don't even know about the fouth, maybe slide Moore over (Hagens as 2nd line center and put Nelson as 3rd line center). If we're already reaching down to players like Whitelaw, Swanson, then you're just actively trying to leave Musty off out of spite.
As weird as DeBrincat situation was, it was a crowded winger set that year with former USNDTP guys in Keller, Anderson, Greenway, Bracco, Bellows, Thompson and Terry, also DeBrincat was useless as a 13th forward the prior year. There's really no argument for any of the not already mentioned former USNDTP guys over Musty.
As weird as DeBrincat situation was, it was a crowded winger set that year with former USNDTP guys in Keller, Anderson, Greenway, Bracco, Bellows, Thompson and Terry, also DeBrincat was useless as a 13th forward the prior year. There's really no argument for any of the not already mentioned former USNDTP guys over Musty.
William H Bonney
Registered User
For sure. People just act like it's a CHL thing when Kyle Connor is arguably the biggest USA WJC snub in a long while. Hockey federations make a lot of dumb decisions, even in cases where the correct decision is obvious.
- Jul 25, 2007
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Good first two games at the Summer Showcase -- Chris Peters @ Flo and a number of others citing him as the line driver on top line of USA White.
Here's a piece from SJS beat writer Sheng Peng.
sanjosehockeynow.com
Here's a piece from SJS beat writer Sheng Peng.
Musty on What He Learned From Being Left Off 2024 USA World Juniors Team
Quentin Musty “means business” at the World Junior Summer Showcase. That’s according to Steven Ellis of Daily Faceoff, speaking of the top San Jose Sharks prospect’s quest to make Team USA’s 2025 World Junior Championships squad. The 6-foot-2 American winger has opened the Summer Showcase in...
sanjosehockeynow.com
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Requested a trade, probably with SJ's support/blessing. He has tons of puck skill and offensive instinct but he's still playing a junior game and Sudbury isn't a team that is going to help him play a more pro style game, much more run and gun. Also it has been implied eg in an interview with Will Smith that Musty may regret going the CHL route rather than NCAA.
hohosaregood
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It was during this interview from our development camp. He didn't say it explicitly but it was very heavily implied. I tried to link to the timestamp but couldn't get it working. It's at 44:50
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Wallet Inspector
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Sharks fans probably got a mini-heart attack when they read "Musty requests a trade".
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CanadienShark
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Nope. We've got 3-4 better prospects and some young guys like Gushchin to keep us happy. Musty is in the "we'd like to keep in case he booms" realm, but most Sharks fans are cool with trading him if the deal makes sense.
That seems a little low on Musty, in my opinion. I'm wondering if he showed poorly in camp or something.
I think he's a better prospect than say, Sam Dickinson. Or Gushchin, who I'll admit I haven't seen in a couple years. But he's 5'8, I have a hard time believing his upside is as high as Musty's.
That guys comment is very reactionary, but it isn't out of the realm of reality.
Musty looked solid in Rookie Faceoff, but clearly wasn't at all ready for the preseason this year, and was a step behind. There are a lot of core things he needs to work on, and in particular the system that Sudbury runs really reinforces those weaknesses rather than works on them, which is likely why this trade request came about. He is a good prospect, but clearly has significant work to do to play a pro game.
Gushchin on the other hand is 100% NHL ready. He was tied with Barzal for the NHL lead with 9 points in 4 preseason games this year. He should have gotten more play time last season, but now he is doing everything, fighting for the puck, finding quick breakouts, in addition to incredible skill plays.
So, could Musty still be a huge star once he gets proper coaching in a pro system, and Gushchin get overwhelmed as his body can't hold up to regular NHL time? Yeah for sure, but in the preseason, Musty was invisible at best, and Gushchin was dominant all over the ice, finishing with 5 assists in a 6-5 win against Vegas' main roster.
CanadienShark
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To be fair, I'm counting Celebrini and Smith as prospects still. Dickinson is clearly ahead of Musty. Askarov is debatable, but I'd say so. Gushchin definitely isn't the same level of prospect, but he's got real high upside in his own right and is NHL ready.
That is helpful to understand, thanks. Obviously Gushchin being 22, turning 23 in February, can help explain how he's ready to go, while Musty just turned 19.
Dickinson is like a ready made NHLer but I think there's an upside gap there with Musty.
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
Sudbury's roster isn't as good this year...he just wants to go to a better team for his last year in the OHL. As a Canadian, who has lived in Sudbury before...this has nothing to do with being a self-entitled American...Canadian players do this as well.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
Exactly. If he was moved at the deadline, no one says a word about him wanting out. That's just business. But if he asks to moved at the start of the season so he isn't yanked around for 3 months, suddenly he's got character issues? It's a weird double standard alot of fans hold to.
