LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IX

[Baggie]

I'm a Laine fan (and a finn) but I think he needs to be more humble. I bet his agent or someone told him to say this stuff to raise his "mental stock" in the draft but he's starting to look like an idiot.

 

[dlawong]

Perhaps he needs to quiet down a bit. Good to have confidence but he should leave OV out of it. When you set goals, it is more important that you go do it rather than talk about it and he need to learn to take baby steps to get there and not aim too far even if he has the confidence and ability. It is like a young men just starting his first job and tell everyone that he will own a Million dollar house in 5 years. Keep to yourself and remind yourself by pinning a Million dollar house picture on your wall, but there is no need to tell others until you get close.

 

[JA]

Per Gino Reda, Laine "just told me he'd compare Matthews and himself to Toews and Oveckin. Says will take him 5 yrs to be like Ovie"

Really? Comparing himself to one of the game's all time best snipers? I get being confident and he is also overcompensating a bit because of an inferiority complex type thing with Matthews being the best prospect...but it's getting a little silly with statements like this.

Same kid that went off on his coach when he was younger.

Although my team doesn't get a shot at either of these two guys I already preferred Matthews based on the hockey aspect but character-wise it's not looking good for Laine at all. Especially compared to a guy like Matthews.

Also re: his comparison is ironic because while not the intent of his comparison, I hope he realizes Toews has won the cup multiple times and Ovechkin can't get past the 2nd round.

Matthews compares himself to Toews and Kopitar. Those are his words.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/matthews-a-franchise-centreman-is-obviously-what-i-want-to-be~884380

Laine's idol is Ovechkin. He wants to be like him. When he hits 50 goals, he'll be where Ovechkin is now. That's what Ovechkin is now; he scored 50 goals this year. Laine is saying that it will take work to get to that point -- five years of work.

That's different from saying you're ready to score 50 goals now. Laine wants to be a 50-goal scorer and implies that there is a lot of work to do.

Brett Hull said the same thing as Bure and Laine -- 50 goals:

Cup a goal Hull's still shooting for: [Final Edition]
Duhatschek, Eric. Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 26 Jan 1992: F3.

With Brett Hull poised on the edge of goal-scoring immortality, I'm reminded of a conversation we had in his rookie season. It was December, 1987, four months before Calgary Flames exiled him to St. Louis Blues, and Hull was rhyming off the goals he had set for himself in his National Hockey League career.

"I want to score 50 goals . . . more than once. I want to play on an all-star team . . . more than once. I want to be a captain. I've never been a captain. Ever. And I'd love to win the Stanley Cup."

...

Alex Ovechkin's goal was to be the best.

Ovechkin has backup plan: [Final Edition]
Star - Phoenix [Saskatoon, Sask] 26 June 2004: B1 Front.

...

When the draft begins this morning at the RBC Centre, Ovechkin is expected to be selected first overall by the Washington Capitals, who thus far have turned aside a flood of offers for the top pick.

"If you're first, you're the best, and if you're second, you're not the best," said Ovechkin, who has been studyng English for two years. "I always want to be the best. That's why I want to be first."

Another big Russian forward, Yevgeny Malkin, is expected to go second overall to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Labour woes put futures on ice: Prospects must find alternatives in case of NHL lockout: [Toronto / Late Edition]
Cole, Cam. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 28 May 2004: S1 Front.

...

"I'm sure you are aware there are labour troubles coming," someone said. "When will we see you play in North America?"

"I want to be the best," Ovechkin said, "and if I play amateur, I will try to be the best amateur."

...

Crosby, Ovechkin reminiscent of Gretzky, Lemieux: They're both good, but who's better?: [Final Edition]
Matheson, Jim. Nanaimo Daily News [Nanaimo, B.C] 22 Nov 2005: B2.

...

"To be honest I had no expectations," Crosby said. "I didn't know what I'd be able to do in my first year. I just wanted to adapt as quickly as I could to this level."

Crosby can see why fans are excited about the two rookies and their first meeting.

But unlike Gretzky and Lemieux, Crosby and Ovechkin don't play the same positions which makes comparisons difficult. Crosby is a centre who's shown some of Gretzky's on-ice magic, while Ovechkin is a highlight reel winger on pace for 60 goals.

"I can't compare us, we're different players," said Ovechkin, 20. "Crosby is a great passer like Gretzky and can see the whole ice . . . me, I like the physical part of the game, and my job is to score."

...

"What I see with both of them is they're driven," said Detroit general manager Ken Holland. "They're 18 and 20 years old and when the game's on the line, they want to be the guy. Other people talk about it. They just do it."

...

"They're different players but both kids want to be the best player in the world."

...

 

[Lempo]

If he was like super-serious about selling his perceived supremacy to everyone willing to listen, I doubt he would be on the other news quite so open about bringing his mom along because he can't cook or wash his clothes. Though then again Barkov did so for his first season, and it hasn't gone that badly.

"If I was a center then I'd have to defend more. *beat* That was a joke." He's quite aware that the media's gonna media.

 

[Plural]

Nope, that was Crosby.

Absolutely was not. Ovechkin beat him in media and peer voted awards. Had hugher PPG each year and never scored less points.

Ovechkin was undeniably the best player those three seasons. Not a contest.

 

[Channelcat]

The guys that "have it" never have to say so. I'm not sure how he's gonna turn out, but there are sure a ton of fan boys who are choosing to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Halberdier]

@JetsAlternate:

Great OP again, thanks!

Just one thing, there is still the most spectacular record missing from the list:

Laine did double the ~80 years old WHC points record for an U-18 player. That's an official WHC record, unlike that "first year of draft eligibility", which is of course a great record too.

Next year Laine might break that Crosby record for a U-19 player.

 

[Semantics]

Absolutely was not. Ovechkin beat him in media and peer voted awards. Had hugher PPG each year and never scored less points.

Ovechkin was undeniably the best player those three seasons. Not a contest.

Yet Crosby walked away with all the awards that actually matter. I get that Ovechkin is the flashiest player and maybe the best point scorer during that period, but what people like you don't realize is there's a lot more to hockey than just scoring points. There isn't a single GM in the league who would have chosen 2007-2010 Ovechkin for their team over Crosby.

 

[JetsFan815]

Yet Crosby walked away with all the awards that actually matter.

By that same logic, would you agree that Laine had a more impressive draft season?

WJC Gold medal
Liga playoffs winner
WC Silver medal

"Hockey is a team sport and you can't judge a player by team awards" or "team awards are the only thing that matter" which one is it? I don't mind which option you chose, just be consistent

 

[Plural]

Yet Crosby walked away with all the awards that actually matter. I get that Ovechkin is the flashiest player and maybe the best point scorer during that period, but what people like you don't realize is there's a lot more to hockey than just scoring points. There isn't a single GM in the league who would have chosen 2007-2010 Ovechkin for their team over Crosby.

Yes there was. There is a clear concensus about who was the best player during those 3 years. If some people who have no knowledge on hockey and just possess glaring biases can't admit that, well the joke is on them.

Nevertheless, this is Laine thread so I'll drop this now.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Since when is self confidence and believing you are the best player in the draft a bad thing. Who wants a player that thinks the opposite?

 

[JA]

The guys that "have it" never have to say so. I'm not sure how he's gonna turn out, but there are sure a ton of fan boys who are choosing to believe what they want to believe.

And the accompanying spoken word album:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Greatest_%28Cassius_Clay_album%29

I Am The Greatest is a spoken word album by boxer Cassius Clay, released in August 1963 – six months before he won the world heavyweight championship, announced his conversion to Islam, and changed his name to Muhammad Ali. It was released by CBS Columbia. The album helped establish Ali's reputation as an eloquently poetic "trash talker".

...

Although Clay's remarks were treated skeptically at the time as mere promotional bragging, when the Liston fight was held the following February, Clay won in a major upset when Liston gave up after only 6 rounds. Clay had proved tougher than expected from the beginning, and he began to dominate the fight in the third round. Despite being nearly blinded in the fourth round – apparently by an ointment used on a cut on Liston's face – Clay recovered, and by the end of the sixth round he was landing blow-after-blow in combinations, almost at will. At the opening of the seventh round, Liston spat out his mouth guard and refused to rise to continue.

On the day after the fight, it was disclosed that Clay had joined the Nation of Islam (which was confirmed by Clay himself the following day), and a week later its leader Elijah Muhammad announced that Clay would change his name to Muhammad Ali.

Following his upset victory and other major news, there was a surge in demand for the LP of the previous August. To take advantage of the moment, the title track "I Am The Greatest" was also released as a single, with the B-side "Will The Real Sonny Liston Please Fall Down". The phenomenon became a significant event in the musical culture that year.[4] "I Am The Greatest" was also released as a single with Clay singing his cover of the Ben E. King song "Stand By Me", which resurfaced on CD in 1991 as part of the compilation Golden Throats 2: More Celebrity Rock Oddities.[5][6]

And the cartoon:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Greatest:_The_Adventures_of_Muhammad_Ali

I Am the Greatest: The Adventures of Muhammad Ali is an animated series featuring heavyweight boxing legend Muhammad Ali, who starred as his own voice. The short-lived series was broadcast Saturday mornings on NBC in the fall of 1977, but was cancelled after just 13 weeks.

You can be the best without having to be humble. The best athletes don't have to say that they're great, but some like to anyway.

 

[Leehh]

Absolutely was not. Ovechkin beat him in media and peer voted awards. Had hugher PPG each year and never scored less points.

Ovechkin was undeniably the best player those three seasons. Not a contest.

People dislike Crosby because they see him as a crybaby, the way he sometimes act is completely understandable since he has to go through **** no other player even dream about. He was targeted like this in pretty much every freaking game


I would pick per concussion Crosby without any hesitation to my team over Ovie. Just because Ovie is more media sexy and appeals to fans it makes him better player? With this logic Justin Bieber is one of the all time best artists to ever live.

 

[Plural]

Oh good god.. this is getting embarrasing.

 

[Lempo]

Now I may be scraping the bottom here already,

but didja guys see what the last year's Jari Kurri Awardee just did on his rookie season in NHL?

( )

 

[JA]

People dislike Crosby because they see him as a crybaby, the way he sometimes act is completely understandable since he has to go through **** no other player even dream about. He was targeted like this in pretty much every freaking game

...

I would pick per concussion Crosby without any hesitation to my team over Ovie. Just because Ovie is more media sexy and appeals to fans it makes him better player? With this logic Justin Bieber is one of the all time best artists to ever live.

Crosby received more attention than Ovechkin during those years. The debate was very much alive, but the media and the NHL tended to favor Crosby.

Here's what former Lightning player Andre Roy said:

Lecavalier 'the best player in the NHL right now'
Macgregor, Roy. The Globe and Mail [Toronto, Ont] 05 Jan 2008: S.1.

...

Former NHL coaches Scotty Bowman and Pat Burns have said Lecavalier is No. 1. Demers contends that Lecavalier would be running away with the scoring race if only he had a defence that could get him the puck.

...

"Vincent right now is the best player in the league," Lecavalier teammate Andre Roy said. "But Sid [Crosby] is kind of the now thing. Everything is so around Sid that he gets all the attention. But Vinny is right there. They're trying to sell the game by showcasing Sid, but there's other guys.

...

Sid was the face of the NHL.

League's marketing plans need new young edge: [Final Edition]
Willes, Ed. The Province [Vancouver, B.C] 21 Dec 2006: A61.

Jason Reitman happened to be in town when the Pittsburgh Penguins blew through Los Angeles this season so, unlike the million or so hockey fans in western Canada, he's actually seen Sidney Crosby in person.

Still, the NHL's clumsy handling of one of its greatest assets registers with Reitman. In Crosby, the NHL has a young, media-genic superstar with immense crossover appeal. In Alexander Ovechkin, the league has a similar talent and the perfect foil for Crosby.

So how do you market these two dazzling stars? How do you maximize their presence around the league?

Think about this for a moment. Did anyone come up with a schedule where half the teams have to wait three years to see Crosby and Ovechkin play?

"Crosby and Ovechkin are hockey's Bird and Magic," Reitman said. "But it's even better than that. It's North America versus Europe. It's Rocky IV [the Ivan Drago one].

"It's what works in the NBA. It's heroes and villains. It's story- telling."

...

Early on, Ovechkin's play failed to generate ticket sales in Washington. Neither Sid nor Alex actually attracted attention from their home fans until they each led their team into the playoffs for the first time in years -- Ovechkin's MVP season single-handedly brought the Capitals into the 2008 Stanley Cup playoffs.

Ovechkin burns brightly in the darkness of D.C.: [National Edition]
Todd, Jack. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 05 Jan 2007: B10.

...

WASHINGTON - After all the Capitals had left yesterday morning's optional pre-game skate, only one remained: Alexander Ovechkin, clad in grey gym shorts, a grey T-shirt and socks, stayed on the ice by himself, firing pucks at the net in his stocking feet and waiting to say hello to his buddy Marky.

Marky (aka Canadiens defenceman Andrei Markov) did not appear, so Ovechkin sauntered off to chat with the Montreal media. Montreal, because there was nary a Washington reporter in sight.

And that's the problem. It is the one glaring hole in Ovechkin's stats after a season and a half as impressive as any debut in NHL history: He hasn't been able to put the butts in the seats or raise the profile of a Capitals team that is so far under the radar that a Washington Post story yesterday said that the team has fallen from third to fourth on the Washington sports scene with the arrival of the awful Nationals, the ex-Expos bunch that may or may not survive the loss of superstar Alfonso Soriano to free agency.

For the Capitals, even a burgeoning superstar is not enough. After devoting not a single column inch to the Caps in its nine- page Wednesday sports section, the Post came back with a story yesterday on declining attendance at the Verizon Centre.

The Post's story put the Capitals average attendance this season at 13,103 going into last night's game against the Canadiens, down 800 fans a game from last season and 4,000 from what the Caps were drawing five years ago. And because the NHL counts tickets distributed, that number bares little or no resemblance to the actual count of fannies in the seats.

Night after night, Ovechkin is playing in front of a half-empty arena. It's a terrible waste, like Vladimir Guerrero toiling in front of 6,000 fans at the Big O -- but it doesn't appear that anything short of a Stanley Cup is going to bring out the fans in Washington.

Owner Ted Leonsis claims he's lost US$100-million on the franchise so far, a figure that should be taken with about seven tons of salt. Leonsis says he needs 3,000 more fans a game to break even and he and his 21-year-old star are both clearly disappointed that this team has been unable to deliver.

Part of the problem is on the ice, where even with Ovechkin tied for the league lead in goals with 25, the Capitals had lost seven out of eight and five in a row going into play last night.

...

Talented, but unloved; They're huge stars, but Ovechkin and Crosby are playing in the wrong cities: [MET Edition]
Cox, Damien. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 23 Dec 2006: C3.

Poor Gary Bettman. If it were only so simple that realignment would actually make a difference.

Well, it might if he could realign Alexander Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby into cities that actually were interested in supporting the NHL or were major media markets in which the presence of either could make a substantially greater impact.

Imagine, for example, if Crosby was a Chicago Blackhawk and Ovechkin a member of the Los Angeles Kings.

Or if Ovechkin was in Philly and Crosby was a Ranger.

Now you'd have something cooking.

Instead, Ovechkin skates for the Washington Capitals, a team that has been either peripheral or boring for most of its life as an NHL franchise.

Even in their own rink, the Caps are one seriously underappreciated squad these days, because the prodigious level of talent and promise on Glen Hanlon's roster should be enough to lure more than enough fans.

Instead, it's acres of empty seats at the Verizon Center on too many nights.

Crosby, meanwhile, is a member of the Pittsburgh Penguins, a team that may well be the first NHL club forced to relocate in a decade.

Unloved by politicians in that city - which means unloved by the general populace - the Pens also own many players that are the envy of many other cities.

Yet the team may pull up stakes.

Having Ovechkin in D.C. and Crosby in Pittsburgh, sadly, hardly puts either player in a strong position to promote the league.

Too bad, because watching these two go back and forth in their undeclared rivalry makes you wonder if they wouldn't be better suited going head-to-head in a velodrome.

...

Daniel Alfredsson helped stoke the fire with regards to the perception of Crosby:

Alfredsson takes heat for crybaby comment: [Toronto Edition]
Panzeri, Allen. National Post [Don Mills, Ont] 22 Mar 2006: S4.

OTTAWA - Political correctness has reached the National Hockey League.

As Daniel Alfredsson discovered yesterday, it's not OK to call Sidney Crosby a crybaby.

Alfredsson thought he was making an innocuous comment about a week ago, when he was asked to compare Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin, the NHL's other super rookie. Alfredsson said the two players had different temperaments. While Ovechkin can take a hit without complaining, Crosby "starts crying."

It wasn't something that hadn't already been said dozens of times by writers and fans.

All anyone has to do is Google "Sidney Crosby" and "crybaby" to find a wealth of nicknames, everything from Sidney Crybaby to Sidney Louganis and Cindy Crosby.

However, it's apparently a mortal sin for a NHL player, especially one of Alfredsson's stature, to say this out loud.

So with the Penguins and Crosby in town yesterday, Alfredsson faced a media inquiry about his remarks and was also chastised by Pittsburgh coach Michel Therien, who suggested that, instead of criticizing Crosby, Alfredsson should kiss the ground Crosby walked on.

"We don't like to hear comments like that," Therien said.

"He has been terrific for Pittsburgh, and he has done more than asked for the NHL."

Alfredsson did his best not to throw fuel on the fire. "When I said it, I realized that it was going to be a bigger deal five days later than I wanted it to be," he said. "I should have known better, I guess."

...

The media loved Crosby. Every bit of attention that Ovechkin received was earned.

 

[Risingwind]

Leg drive and back bending should really be banned in powerlifting IMO. We have tiny, flexible people doing McDonalds back arcs with 2 inch ROM on crazy weights. As for myself, I do bench press with almost the same form as him, feet flat on the ground and only go down to parallel(injured my shoulder twice going down to chest, no TY)

I saw you and someone else say that they injured themselves with the leg drive. I'd say the leg drive wasn't at fault, but lifting too much weight was.

Banning the leg drive doesn't make sense. In powerlifting you're trying to move as much weight as possible and the leg drive enables you to do so. For amateurs it's good because you can move the same weight with more security since your 1RM is higher with a proper leg drive. The problem here is that going for the 1RM is in no way a healthy way to practice and will lead to injuries more often. How about doing longer sets with 70-80% instead? And by longer I mean reps until the one before failure.

But btw, Dumbbell bench press isn't nearly as good of a compound IMO.

It enables a longer range of motion as the bar stops when it hits the sternum, and you can't pull the hands closer together at the top when holding a bar. Another problem is that the weaker arm can coast on the effort of the stronger arm when doing barbell presses, but with a dumbbell that's not possible. Dumbbell press is more effective from a physiological point of view, but it doesn't take into account habits and the other psychological effects of course.

Someone asked me also if I thought the session was for building muscle. I don't.

 

[Alexandrov]

Laine is only visiting NA and people already have difficulty handling his swagger and talent. It's going to be tough 15 years for these folks.

 

[YARR123]

The guys that "have it" never have to say so. I'm not sure how he's gonna turn out, but there are sure a ton of fan boys who are choosing to believe what they want to believe.

That's not really true. Most top athletes in the world are very confident and know their worth, and will also say it out loud. There's tons and tons of examples.

Since when is self confidence and believing you are the best player in the draft a bad thing. Who wants a player that thinks the opposite?

Agreed. I can't picture how this could've turned out any differently. How stupid would it have sounded if Laine had said "I think Matthews is better". Just doesn't work. And it's not like Laine went on about him being the best like Muhammed Ali. He was asked a straightforward question and he gave a straightforward reply.

 

[kunekune]

Laine is generational and he knows it himself.

 

[Romang67]

The guys that "have it" never have to say so. I'm not sure how he's gonna turn out, but there are sure a ton of fan boys who are choosing to believe what they want to believe.

Already covered, but this is a poorly timed comment what with the Muhammad Ali passing. Also, many other superstars in other sports, such as Pele and Jordan. Not everyone is Gretzky.

 

[FinPanda]

Only thing what he said about Ovechkin was that he HOPES to be as good as Ovechkin in 5 years. He never said he WILL be.

 

[Marre]

I find it a shame that NA media and fans will beat any candidness and straightforwardness out of him when it comes to interviews. Experiences like this: when you listen the interview and what he actually said and how it has been reported by many media, will turn him to one of those "obviously... team effort... obviously... everyone/thing is great... obviously... say nothing with any meaning... obviously..."-guys in no time.

When someone is asked to compare himself and some other and person answers that he thinks they are pretty even and he is better in these things and other guy in these and then media writes a story, how he said he is better in this and that (and omits the rest) and fans fill social media with arrogance and duche-comments, they kind of get what they deserved, when after few experiences like that the players will not answer anything straight any more.

 

[kunekune]

Guys the fighting about this is pointless. Only ones who sees those comments as a bad thing is the Leafs fanbase. Even Toronto based media loves the swagger.

They are already wondering if their management is doing the wrong dedication and they miss the BPA. It is just a natural response to bash the other one. Mentalstate of a virgin teenboy.

 

[kelsier]

Agreed. I can't picture how this could've turned out any differently. How stupid would it have sounded if Laine had said "I think Matthews is better". Just doesn't work. And it's not like Laine went on about him being the best like Muhammed Ali. He was asked a straightforward question and he gave a straightforward reply.

And who did he exactly offend with that statement? Well well, only one fan base crosses my mind, thus we now have page after page of non-sense discussion about regarding Laine's maturity level.

If the kid believes and wants to be as good as Ovechkin in five years, what an earth is wrong about that? There are numerous examples of previous top prospects who've made similar comments so that's nothing new. Certain people are absorbing in everything and looking for flaws from all the wrong places instead of focusing on more meaningful matters. To set yourself up for goals can only be a good thing, to prove that your driven enough to pursue those goals is a healthy foundation for any young player who wants to leave their mark for the future generations. So far, haven't seen anything opposite in regards to Laine. He's a work horse and thrives with the work and natural talent that cannot be taught.

I can only feel sad for the people who are grasping at straws or finding any means possible to discredit one single hockey talent without any sensible cause.