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LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IX

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Riellyfan04 said:
This guy acts like he's the best thing..... Its a bit annoying....soild prospect but dam, chill!
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Wait, what?

You mean that Laine acts as being BPA on this draft or what? And what's wrong with that?

Toronto is picking either Laine or Matthews. That's official. That's published. So obviously they see PL and AM as BPsA, or TOP-2. They need to decide on that, and you'll bet Laine and Matthews have different opinion on that who is BPA.

If Toronto picks Laine, it won't make him BPA, and the same with Matthews. That can be decided only after next 5-10 years. That just makes the guy Toronto picked as a BPA-according-to-MPL.

Both will do great, but I'm surprised if AM will NOT have a better rookie season than Laine. He is significantly older and more finished product ATM. I expect Laine surpassing AM in his 3rd season, if he will be able to do that at all.
 
Halberdier said:
Wait, what?

You mean that Laine acts as being BPA on this draft or what? And what's wrong with that?

Toronto is picking either Laine or Matthews. That's official. That's published. So obviously they see PL and AM as BPsA, or TOP-2. They need to decide on that, and you'll bet Laine and Matthews have different opinion on that who is BPA.

If Toronto picks Laine, it won't make him BPA, and the same with Matthews. That can be decided only after next 5-10 years. That just makes the guy Toronto picked as a BPA-according-to-MPL.

Both will do great, but I'm surprised if AM will NOT have a better rookie season than Laine. He is significantly older and more finished product ATM. I expect Laine surpassing AM in his 3rd season, if he will be able to do that at all.
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AM is the BPA. Full stop. Only one of the 2 is elite across the board. You can say it as often as you like, but Laine is NOT the BPA.
 
Ippenator said:
Seriously? You believe a 20% difference comes with equipment difference? I don't really know what to say to this anymore...
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That sounds about right. That's why I said I don't know how relevant it is.

It'd be good if there was some formula for figuring it out so that one could actually compare.
 
Leo Trollmarov said:
AM is the BPA. Full stop. Only one of the 2 is elite across the board. You can say it as often as you like, but Laine is NOT the BPA.
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No, AM is not BPA. At least not for everyone. Laine outscored him in every recent competitions where they played at the same time. Of course Matthews played well in those competitions too. They are really that close that which one is BPA depends really on what the person evaluating prefers in players. To say that either of them is a clear BPA is arrogance and neglecting facts.
 
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Leo Trollmarov said:
AM is the BPA. Full stop. Only one of the 2 is elite across the board. You can say it as often as you like, but Laine is NOT the BPA.
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There are a number of NHL scouts who disagree with you. These are people who are the best in the world at what they do. They get paid by NHL clubs to identify who they feel the BPA is. More feels it's Matthews, but some feel it's Laine.

I think this thread would be a lot less hostile if people didn't get offended by that fact. It's not an attack. It's an opinion. And it's valid enough that some very credible professionals who do this for a living share it.
 
Ippenator said:
Seriously? You believe a 20% difference comes with equipment difference? I don't really know what to say to this anymore...
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Have you seen how sticks and speed measurements have changed in the past 20 years, along with player development? Obviously his shot will be among the high-end of NHLers, but to not account for the massive change in stick designs from Hull using a wooden stick then Aluminum in his prime is a pretty big change.
 
93LEAFS said:
Have you seen how sticks and speed measurements have changed in the past 20 years, along with player development? Obviously his shot will be among the high-end of NHLers, but to not account for the massive change in stick designs from Hull using a wooden stick then Aluminum in his prime is a pretty big change.
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It was something like 106 for Hull and 129 for Laine in some slides and yes, the stick does play a factor.

I wonder how much goalie equipment changes might affect things...
 
93LEAFS said:
Have you seen how sticks and speed measurements have changed in the past 20 years, along with player development? Obviously his shot will be among the high-end of NHLers, but to not account for the massive change in stick designs from Hull using a wooden stick then Aluminum in his prime is a pretty big change.
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No they have not changed really that much. Check how hard was Al Iafrate's hardest slapshot compared to Shea Weber's or Zdeno Chara's slapshot speeds. Not really that big difference at all. And Hull was from Iafrate's era.
 
ijuka said:
It was something like 106 for Hull and 129 for Laine in some slides and yes, the stick does play a factor.

I wonder how much goalie equipment changes might affect things...
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Yeah, I think for things like that comparing to era is much more important. I'd like to see it against Stamkos, Ovi, Subban, Brett Burns, Weber, etc. Because that is really more important.
 
Kind of off putting how arrogant Laine is. Will be interesting to see if he eventually gets the same treatment that E. Kane did in Winnipeg.
 
KGL said:
Kind of off putting how arrogant Laine is. Will be interesting to see if he eventually gets the same treatment that E. Kane did in Winnipeg.
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I doubt it, what bothered people about Kane was how he treated people (or was alleged to of treated people in the service industry). Laine doesn't have a reputation for party, I doubt he'll go to Vegas and take pictures with his money, or charter jets to watch an NBA all-star game or Jays playoff games. Kane did everything wrong for that market, its not going to fly with a blue collar fan base.
 
Well one thing is for sure, aint no Auston Matthews shooting harder then Hull :laugh:



Leafs have been dreaming for years to get Matthews, finally they accomplish to be dead last in the league, earning the #1 pick... and then he´s not even BPA :laugh:

The fan and media pressure gets to Toronto management, so they draft him out of comfort, knowing they´re making a mistake, but hey they get a possible #1 center who´s proved he can perform in regular season.

Winnipeg team in a few years, just wow!
I can´t wait
 
ijuka said:
I at least have always used logical argumentation, coaching decisions and systems as well as video clips to support my claims.

You are one of those people who seems to enjoy quoting authority and making ad hominem attacks, instead. Which style of argumentation do you think would do better in a controlled debate?
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You work in pure blind biased circular logic. I have 4 posts In this thread and not a single is a Laine hating post. I'm guessing if you kept your hero in this thread and out of others things would be different.

Laine should be a great 2nd pick, even if he doesn't fix his faults. The Jets should be very happy.
 
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KGL said:
Kind of off putting how arrogant Laine is. Will be interesting to see if he eventually gets the same treatment that E. Kane did in Winnipeg.
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He's just answering questions honestly. It's not like he goes around bragging about himself.

Leo Trollmarov said:
You work in pure blind biased circular logic. I have 4 posts I. This thread and not a single is a Laine hating post. I'm guessing if you kept your hero in this thread and out of others things would be different.

Laine should be a great 2nd pick, even if he doesn't fix his faults. The Jets should be very happy.
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Do you even know what ad hominem is? Because you did it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
 
Booster said:
Well one thing is for sure, aint no Auston Matthews shooting harder then Hull :laugh:



Leafs have been dreaming for years to get Matthews, finally they accomplish to be dead last in the league, earning the #1 pick... and then he´s not even BPA :laugh:

The fan and media pressure gets to Toronto management, so they draft him out of comfort, knowing they´re making a mistake, but hey they get a possible #1 center who´s proved he can perform in regular season.

Winnipeg team in a few years, just wow!
I can´t wait
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Yeah, media pressure. This post is a joke and so biased its ridiculous. You think Lou Lamorello is caving to media pressure? I actually question if you follow the NHL. But yea, Matthews two U-18 gold medals proves he's unclutch. This is why people think some of the Finns are ridiculous posters, because of ridiculous posts like these. Like its a media conspiracy against Laine.
 
Le Golie said:
There are a number of NHL scouts who disagree with you. These are people who are the best in the world at what they do. They get paid by NHL clubs to identify who they feel the BPA is. More feels it's Matthews, but some feel it's Laine.

I think this thread would be a lot less hostile if people didn't get offended by that fact. It's not an attack. It's an opinion. And it's valid enough that some very credible professionals who do this for a living share it.
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The vast majority disagrees with you. I am comfortable with that.

But you are right, we all have the right to an opinion.
 

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