LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) IX

[Brock Radunske]

Looks like some of the Leafs fans have a lot in common with some of the Finnish fans then

I dont know that much about Marner, Nylander or Rielly, and i think that it's unlikely that they will become as good as Patrick Kane, McDavid, Giroux, Forsberg or Keith. But if some Leafs fans think that, then good for them. I don't feel the need to go to their threads to tell how much worse they are in some aspects of their games.

His point was that the likelihood of them reaching their "comparables" is in the same range as Laine reaching Ovi.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

See the problem with that- is that many other posters get so personally upset when Leafs fans hype up Mitch Marner to guys like Patrick Kane or even *gulp* McDavid, or Nylander to guys like Giroux or even *gulp* Forsberg, or even Rielly to a #1 D-man or even *gulp* Duncan Keith.

They've been endlessly **** on and criticized for overhyping, even when the numbers/awards technically warrant it, that Leafs fans wont stand for people simply saying that oh yeah Laine is the next Ovi or Lemieux when they've been told to tone it down with their guys.

That is the problem here, are we all allowed to hype our guys or is it better to temper expectations?

Except they never tone it down at all. So why get bothered when other people hype prospects?

I've noticed that the Leafs fans who are most vocal in their complaints tend to behave exactly the same was as the people they complain about.

 

[CashMash]

Yeah I agreed, and sorry didn't mean to direct it at you, more of in general:

"Do people see what the problem is in letting guys overhype Laine? It's simply not HFBoards if it isn't followed by ways to temper expectations."

Ah, okay. I can be somewhat bad at detecting if someone is being rhetorical or not. Especially over text.

 

[BWDude]

Looks like some of the Leafs fans have a lot in common with some of the Finnish fans then

I dont know that much about Marner, Nylander or Rielly, and i think that it's unlikely that they will become as good as Patrick Kane, McDavid, Giroux, Forsberg or Keith. But if some Leafs fans think that, then good for them. I don't feel the need to go to their threads to tell how much worse they are in some aspects of their games.

Yep

Regarding the bolded:

You don't but a lot of people here do. Just a week ago there was a post here that had Nylander and Marner as #1 and #3 of all drafted prospects, with Marner sweeping all OHL and CHL regular season and playoff MVP awards this year.

Cue the people who I saw coming into those threads and saying Marner will never translate, or Marner was undeserving of the MVP: It happens all the freaking time with Leafs guys so you bet they would chime up when guys like Laine are getting hyped like this.

 

[snowkiddin]

"Laine thinks he's so good. He says he's the best in the draft. Can't he see that Matthews is clearly the best in the draft. Other than McDavid, Matthews is the best prospect in the last decade."

First off, what's so terrible about a player thinking he's good, especially when he is? He hasn't been tearing down any other players, he's simply stating that he feels he an amazing player. Confidence can go a long way in sports.

Second, we get it. Matthews is the best player in this draft. Okay, fine. What I'm not understanding is why we have to tear down Laine. Can't we just agree both are very good? Why is it mandatory for Matthews to be exponentially better? No one is even arguing for Matthews, explaining why he is better. It's just people tearing down Laine.

And finally, I first heard about McDavid when he was like 12 years old. That's how great and noticeable he was. Matthews I hadn't heard about until about midway through the 2013-14 season (to be fair I have never gotten the chance to watch U18 hockey) when he was on the U.S. National Development Team. Now don't take this next part to heart, I am not attacking anyone personally nor am I attacking a fanbase, I'm just saying this to the people who have already declared that Matthews is the second best prospect in the last decade: I've never been one to mollycoddle the delusional so I have to tell you outright that I think you're wrong. What suggests that Matthews will be better than Patrick Kane, Steven Stamkos or John Tavares? To automatically assume that he's got a ceiling like that before he has even stepped onto the ice in the NHL is asinine. We have no clue how he (as well as Laine and all other prospects) will adjust to playing against the best players in the world.

EDIT: I just realized that this probably doesn't belong in the Laine thread. Oh well.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Let's clear up one thing first. Laine is NOT better than Ovechkin at 18, and there's no shame in that.

.

There would be no shame in that but it's not the case. I saw a lot of comparable games from them in their draft year. Laine is clearly better. Did you watch all EHT, WJC and WHC games of both in their pre draft season? I really really doubt it. Ovy had skating and hitting over Laine, everything else goes to Laine. It's so easily seen in stats but also just by watching them.

As I have mentioned several times it doesn't necessarily mean Laine will reach ovechkin ceiling but he is ahead at 18 by a country mile. It promises nothing for future, just gives us a point of reference

 

[Haatley]

Well Ovechkin stepped into the league at 19 years old and scored 50+ goals. I would be surprised if Laine hits 20 as a rookie. That should tell ya something. I think people are in for a huge disappointment if they expect him to be close to Ovie.

 

[tacogeoff]

There would be no shame in that but it's not the case. I saw a lot of comparable games from them in their draft year. Laine is clearly better. Did you watch all EHT, WJC and WHC games of both in their pre draft season? I really really doubt it. Ovy had skating and hitting over Laine, everything else goes to Laine. It's so easily seen in stats but also just by watching them.

As I have mentioned several times it doesn't necessarily mean Laine will reach ovechkin ceiling but he is ahead at 18 by a country mile. It promises nothing for future, just gives us a point of reference

Laine looks great and has a very good run up to the draft so far. I am really hoping everything falls into place and we can get him on our roster.

I don't think he is better than Ovi though. sure he had a good run leading up to the draft and has played on some great teams but I don't see him putting up massive points and over 50 goals in his first season. Sure statistically he has been better than ovi but I think the first season will really show were he is at in comparison.

jmo

 

[ijuka]

Sigh.

So can you guys point out the difference between this deke at 00:05 - 00:07 here:



And at 06:41 - 06:43 here:




The deke in isolation. Notice it?

 

[fr9dd9]

Im so sure of it

Im 100% sure that scouts only see it as a great think that he is how he is, great confidence goes a LONG way in sports. A player with the same skillset at Laine could might as well play in mestis still, WITHOUT confidence. I know that scouts look at it as a player that can step in the big ice right from the draft and perform! cuz he know he can! with doubhts come thinking, and with thinking comes misstakes and just bad performance. I love it that he is that way. Finland have to many humble prospects recent years! I LOVE IT LAINE!! keep it up!

 

[Lempo]

Cue the people who I saw coming into those threads and saying Marner will never translate, or Marner was undeserving of the MVP: It happens all the freaking time with Leafs guys so you bet they would chime up when guys like Laine are getting hyped like this.

Does that mean though that if the Leafs fans go and forward it around near verbatim on our guy, we too get to react like the Leafs fans then?

 

[Brock Radunske]

There would be no shame in that but it's not the case. I saw a lot of comparable games from them in their draft year. Laine is clearly better. Did you watch all EHT, WJC and WHC games of both in their pre draft season? I really really doubt it. Ovy had skating and hitting over Laine, everything else goes to Laine. It's so easily seen in stats but also just by watching them.

As I have mentioned several times it doesn't necessarily mean Laine will reach ovechkin ceiling but he is ahead at 18 by a country mile. It promises nothing for future, just gives us a point of reference

Good luck.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Sigh.

So can you guys point out the difference between this deke at 00:05 - 00:07 here:



And at 06:41 - 06:43 here:




The deke in isolation. Notice it?

I'm sorry...are you basing the comparison of the two players based on a single deke?

"Sigh" indeed.

 

[IFK]

And look at what he did in his 15 year old season at the U-18's, its absolutely insane. Tournaments are by far the smallest sample size (and its debatable who outplayed who at the WHC).

Actually McDavid was then 16 and almost half, still pretty impressive.

I think McDavid is best prospect what i have seen in a long time, still like Eichel, Barkov, Matthews, Laine and some else are also very high end prospect and they have all so much potential that there is no almost roof of that what they can be in next 5 years. Of course it look most obvious that McDavid will be best of them all, but no can tell that sure, that good they all are. Also there can be other Jamie Benn in or Karlsson who will get drafted like later in first round and he will be come the best all fo them. But now sure for me first in wide margin is McDavid, but those other Eichel, Barkov, Matthews, Laine and i take also Puljujärvi here too, are in all in same line and i cant see real BPA there.

 

[ijuka]

I'm sorry...are you basing the comparison of the two players based on a single deke?

I'm talking about that deke, you must be confusing me with someone else. I really would like to have a conversation about that specific Deke of Laine's but no one wants to... So sad.

You notice he uses 2 touches when Ovechkin uses 1?

 

[BWDude]

Does that mean though that if the Leafs fans go and forward it around near verbatim on our guy, we too get to react like the Leafs fans then?

Hey, there's HF for ya. I am just summarizing what has already happened.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Well Ovechkin stepped into the league at 19 years old and scored 50+ goals. I would be surprised if Laine hits 20 as a rookie. That should tell ya something. I think people are in for a huge disappointment if they expect him to be close to Ovie.

agreed, Ovechkin is the best sniper in ice hockey history, why start comparing Laine to that? a bit premature

 

[snowkiddin]

Well Ovechkin stepped into the league at 19 years old and scored 50+ goals. I would be surprised if Laine hits 20 as a rookie. That should tell ya something. I think people are in for a huge disappointment if they expect him to be close to Ovie.

I would say similar things about Matthews being compared to Toews or Kopitar. It's not realistic nor is it fair for neither Laine nor Matthews to have such lofty expectations already saddled on them.

 

[ijuka]

agreed, Ovechkin is the best sniper in ice hockey history, why start comparing Laine to that? a bit premature

Not to inject my opinion here but Ovechkin was 20 when he entered the league.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Not to inject my opinion here but Ovechkin was 20 when he entered the league.

Plus scoring was way up back then compared to what it is today.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Except they never tone it down at all. So why get bothered when other people hype prospects?

I've noticed that the Leafs fans who are most vocal in their complaints tend to behave exactly the same was as the people they complain about.

This is true, Leafs fans similarly get carried away with comparisons. Still, there's always a bit of pushback from the rest of HF when Leafs fans overhype their prospects, and we're sort of seeing the same thing here.

 

[ijuka]

Plus scoring was way up back then compared to what it is today.

Surprisingly close. I believe it was 93 points era-adjusted. However, that does seem a little off when we consider that Ovechkin wasn't even in top 3 in scoring that season. Perhaps the top players scored more but the general level of scoring wasn't as high, partially explaining that strange phenomenon.

 

[Gsus]

Does he seem like an arrogant or cocky guy to you? For me he seems like a pretty nice guy:

https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/exclusive-1-on-1-with-laine/t-277437442/c-44138203

 

[tacogeoff]

Not to inject my opinion here but Ovechkin was 20 when he entered the league.

yes but posters are showing how good Laine's draft year stats were compared to Ovi's stats. So why not look at Ovi's rookie year? is it a double standard? clearly if Laine can make Ovi look like a scrub in his draft year, he should be able to explode upon the NHL scene.........No?

I have tempered expectations of Laine but I am extremely happy that the Jets have a chance to draft him.

 

[Ippenator]

Let's clear up one thing first. Laine is NOT better than Ovechkin at 18, and there's no shame in that.

But the following is how you've managed to arrive at your conclusion:

Step one: isolate a small portion of Laine's game and make extremely loftly comparisons to names like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk.

Step two: over time, start ignoring the differences in their all around game, namely explosive skating, physicality and other tools that make Ovechkin unique.

Step three: selectively point at tournaments and playoff success and compare it to Ovechkin's track record. Take out all context like the Russian league was vastly superior to the Liiga and come to some conclusion that Laine may have had a better season.

Step four: confidently assert that Laine is superior to Ovechkin and has a very real ability to surpass him.

You basically isolated one aspect of Laine's game to get the foot in the door, multiplied it by some FEL run and 3 great games against Hungary, Belarus and France on the international stage and arrived at the fact that Laine is superior to an all-time great.

If Laine were truly superior to Ovechkin, who himself was called the best prospect since Lemieux in 2004, why on earth is Auston Matthews the first overall prospect? As much as I am a Matthews fan, I'm pretty sure he's not in the same league as Ovechkin was back in 2004.

Sorry Stephen, but you are paractically wrong in every single claim you make here. Sad to see so little understanding of the fact that hockey exists in very good form also somewhere else than in North America and Russia. You seem to be one of these very deluted people that believe that the power ranking from the 80's still applies. Then it could have been maybe claimed rightfully so that only North America and Russia have the really top class leagues in the world. The thing that guys like you don't understand is that Swedish, Finnish and even Swiss leagues started catching up with the NHL and the Russian league already in the 80's. There is still of course a quality difference in general. But it is nowadays much smaller than it was in the 80's.

Jokerit was just a mediocre team in the middle of the FEL rankings during it's few last seasons in FEL. They didn't improve their roster very much when they went two years ago to KHL, but still right away they became one of the top teams in the whole KHL. This is tells very clearly that the difference between FEL and KHL is really not that big at all. In fact I believe that SHL is a bit better than FEL in quality, so that league is practically at the same level with KHL.

Just honestly I can see where you are coming from, and I think that with not understanding how the hockey power rankings have changed and are still continuing to change, people like you will be constantly shocked, amazed and surpised by European international teams and the European individual players. Sorry but your thinking is not from present days, dude.