LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016, 2nd, WPG) XII

[kelsier]

You do realize that the 5 pages before were about laine fans debating how tall he was in pictures taken before and after he was officially measured? Thats not insecurity?

From the start my position has been the same. As a leaf fan, my team was in the position to pick between two supreme talents. I wanted to discuss laine as he was a legit possibility for my team (Hunter and Lou have both built teams around wingers) Matthews is the sure bet, Laine had the big game unique potential.

I questioned how he would translate to the Nhl with smaller ice, intense board/cycle games and dirty area goals, rather than off side half wall. I got questioned and laughed at..... 2 games in to a meaningless tournament, I can see what I was questioning coming to play. Any person who has a casual understanding of hockey should have seen this coming. My question remains... How will he adjust to the different style of play? If he does, the jets have a keeper.

Can the finish fanatics at least admit that he will have to adjust and translate his game to adapt?

Do you actually really think it matters that much whether Laine is 6"3,75 or 6"5? His height will never be an issue or his size for that matter. It's the people like you who want to have these debates. I don't even bother reading the Matthews thread myself cause I don't care how he fairs in the long run, but you guys keep coming here like angry flies. If you have doubts about Laine that's your business but the fact that you are sharing them so often sounds like insecurity to me.

Of course he will have translation period just like every other NHL rookie has. I believe he will overcome that period easily and I'm guessing you either don't, or don't want to think so, but then again so what. Now to the obvious point, maybe Toronto picked the most talented guy or maybe they didn't. We will find out in the next few years anyway. Nothing said here will change any possible outcomes.

 

[Legion34]

Do you actually really think it matters that much whether Laine is 6"3,75 or 6"5? His height will never be an issue or his size for that matter. It's the people like you who want to have these debates. I don't even bother reading the Matthews thread myself cause I don't care how he fairs in the long run, but you guys keep coming here like angry flies. If you have doubts about Laine that's your business but the fact that you are sharing them so often sounds like insecurity to me.

Of course he will have translation period just like every other NHL rookie has. I believe he will overcome that period easily and I'm guessing you either don't, or don't want to think so, but then again so what. Now to the obvious point, maybe Toronto picked the most talented guy or maybe they didn't. We will find out in the next few years anyway. Nothing said here will change any possible outcomes.

No I dont think it matters. The fact that people refuse to acknowledge that he was officially measured and continue to make up ridiculous excuses despite empirical evidence to the contrary is what matters. This entire thread in all of its many iterations has had a select few people who make ridiculous claims over and over again.

The kid has done great in time and space and relies often on people to get him the puck in space (because you cant go out that far) on wide ice and pp to score the majority of his points. Not a single poster has been able to suggest how he will adjust to less time and space other than " he will".......

I am not exactly a great hockey mind, but an amateur can see that might not work in north america...... I have asked people to see how he might improve, and not a single person has provided potential strategies......
\

 

[Gump Hasek]

The hype train though was always completely out of control and needs to settle down in order to avoid disappointment.

Why are you so clearly concerned about how a prospect that plays for another team is perceived?

Do you have a problem with a kid setting the highest of goals for himself? FYI, that is how successful people push themselves, by setting personal performance benchmarks, by aiming high. Hope that helps.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

No I dont think it matters. The fact that people refuse to acknowledge that he was officially measured and continue to make up ridiculous excuses despite empirical evidence to the contrary is what matters. This entire thread in all of its many iterations has had a select few people who make ridiculous claims over and over again.

The kid has done great in time and space and relies often on people to get him the puck in space (because you cant go out that far) on wide ice and pp to score the majority of his points. Not a single poster has been able to suggest how he will adjust to less time and space other than " he will".......

I am not exactly a great hockey mind, but an amateur can see that might not work in north america...... I have asked people to see how he might improve, and not a single person has provided potential strategies......
\

Do you have any thoughts on why he was drafted 2 OA given the deficiencies you observe in his playing style? Is it just a case of scouts not understanding differences between the game in Europe and North America and maybe not considering whether he can be an effective player outside the FEL?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

how would you suggest he improve? You have posted his "resume" about 100 times, but havent suggested any specific analysis.

Why don't you start by listing what exactly has you worried in his game that will prevent him from whatever expectation realistic or unrealistic you have. I am expecting not IMO posts since you seem to come from a place of factual points that fuel your worry.

But since you asked I have posted numerous times, he may or not need a Barkov adjustment to the NHL first and foremost. Then he will be light out as Barkov was last year. That's #1 part of improvement I expect, does this answer your question? The rest will come with all 18 year Olds. Refining strength an weaknesses in their game. If LAINE adds a first step quickness, then lookout. That would make him very unique for a 6'4 or 6'5 power and finesse fwd In the NHL. Possibly the best since Ovie.

 

[Legion34]

Do you have any thoughts on why he was drafted 2 OA given the deficiencies you observe in his playing style? Is it just a case of scouts not understanding differences between the game in Europe and North America and maybe not considering whether he can be an effective player outside the FEL?

Not an answer.

 

[91Stammer*]

Edit: Gino Reda is a very respected hockey personality in Canada. I doubt he would risk his reputation misquoting Laine.

Lol Ovi didn't take 5 years to become who he is.

 

[Snowsii]

Not an answer.

Well.. he needs to work on his first steps. Get more muscle etc..

But you really dont need to worry about that.. He wouldnt have gone number 2, unless the raw talent is there. They allready have plans for his future.. And those plans are made, ppl who has alot knowledge about training prospects.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Not an answer.

Perhaps that's because I don't see the same problem existing to the extent that you do.

I'm assuming by your response that you don't have any suggestions on why a player who has the deficiencies that you claim he does was drafted so high - probably just one of those cases of scouts getting it wrong?

 

[Legion34]

Why don't you start by listing what exactly has you worried in his game that will prevent him from whatever expectation realistic or unrealistic you have. I am expecting not IMO posts since you seem to come from a place of factual points that fuel your worry.

But since you asked I have posted numerous times, he may or not need a Barkov adjustment to the NHL first and foremost. Then he will be light out as Barkov was last year. That's #1 part of improvement I expect, does this answer your question? The rest will come with all 18 year Olds. Refining strength an weaknesses in their game. If LAINE adds a first step quickness, then lookout. That would make him very unique for a 6'4 or 6'5 power and finesse fwd In the NHL. Possibly the best since Ovie.

Its pretty simple: He has a very specific tool set that he uses very well on big ice.
On pp he sets up on the off side half wall up high and wide. He gets extra time and space because he
1.) is on pp
2.) on wide ice, the defender can't go that far out wide to block him. He cant go out that wide in the NHL.

The kid has an amazing one timer, and it has beaten FEL goalies...

He won't get time and space in the nhl 5 on 5 with smaller surfaces.
He doesn't have the acceleration to move around like a water bug and create space (kessel). He doesn't seem to have the in tight moves to win board battles (sedins/crosby/even matthews). and shake people off to create space himself.

He relies on outside low percentage shots that historically have not worked in the NHL especially 5 on 5. He might work that out, but top players in the NHL score in tight with offensive zone possession.

As a leaf fan, I watched one of the top 5 scorers in the league score off the rush, and then off the halfwall pp. His one trick pony show stopped working, so he had to learn to curl back, pick up the trailer and work from down low too. Kessel had acceleration that let him sit out wide and slide in and strike. Thats how he changed. Im not sure what Laine will do.

 

[Legion34]

Perhaps that's because I don't see the same problem existing to the extent that you do.

I'm assuming by your response that you don't have any suggestions on why a player who has the deficiencies that you claim he does was drafted so high - probably just one of those cases of scouts getting it wrong?

If you don't see the difference between how he was able to score in the WHC on wide ice on the PP and how goals are scored in the NHL then thats fine.....

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Its pretty simple: He has a very specific tool set that he uses very well on big ice.
On pp he sets up on the off side half wall up high and wide. He gets extra time and space because he
1.) is on pp
2.) on wide ice, the defender can't go that far out wide to block him. He cant go out that wide in the NHL.

The kid has an amazing one timer, and it has beaten FEL goalies...

He won't get time and space in the nhl 5 on 5 with smaller surfaces.
He doesn't have the acceleration to move around like a water bug and create space (kessel). He doesn't seem to have the in tight moves to win board battles (sedins/crosby/even matthews). and shake people off to create space himself.

He relies on outside low percentage shots that historically have not worked in the NHL especially 5 on 5. He might work that out, but top players in the NHL score in tight with offensive zone possession.

As a leaf fan, I watched one of the top 5 scorers in the league score off the rush, and then off the halfwall pp. His one trick pony show stopped working, so he had to learn to curl back, pick up the trailer and work from down low too. Kessel had acceleration that let him sit out wide and slide in and strike. Thats how he changed. Im not sure what Laine will do.

This is an opinion. I would disgree. No one has a clue how he will adapt to the NHL. No one has an idea how any 18 prospect will transfer to the NHL. So your worry may as well apply to all the drafted players from 2016. My experience is natural goal scorers like Laine find time and space. Some call this hockey IQ, some call this an innate skill. He has the tools to be a Rocket Richard winner. The only one that was drafted this year that scouts said as such. I would listen to them. Further you may wonder how Brett Hull found time and space on the ice after all these years teams knew where he was camped out. Same for Ovie. I appreciate your concerns, but NHL fans and Jets fans are not worried. Laine is the best potential goal scorer drafted since Ovie. He has the size, hockey sense, skills, skating, and only needs to adjust to the NA game, like his countryman Barkov to be the player most of expect him to be.

 

[Legion34]

This is an opinion. I would disgree. No one has a clue how he will adapt to the NHL. No one has an idea how any 18 prospect will transfer to the NHL. So your worry may as well apply to all the drafted players from 2016. My experience is natural goal scorers like Laine find time and space. Some call this hockey IQ, some call this an innate skill. He has the tools to be a Rocket Richard winner. The only one that was drafted this year that scouts said as such. I would listen to them. Further you may wonder how Brett Hull found time and space on the ice after all these years teams knew where he was camped out. Same for Ovie. I appreciate your concerns, but NHL fans and Jets fans are not worried. Laine is the best potential goal scorer drafted since Ovie. He has the size, hockey sense, skills, skating, and only needs to adjust to the NA game, like his countryman Barkov to be the player most of expect him to be.

I don't think it is an opinion that he scores the vast majority of his goals in extra time and space on pp? Way out wide with no forward challenging him?

All of his goals are
On YouTube. That's not an opinion.
You think he has the skating? Barkov plays nothing like him. not all players can translate their games equally. I think laine uses
The specific size of ice to his advantage. That could mean he is just that smart and figured out a
Way to game the system.

The kid has a game that is specifically tailored
To big ice. Half of his goals
Would be from the second
Row of an nhl rink. It is up to him to translate it.

 

[Kamiccolo]

So many haters against a kid when the season hasn't even started? I don't get it.

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

 

[BB88]

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

The NHL won't start for a month.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

Marner looks terrible out there in the World Cup. Oh wait, he didn't make it. He's being hyped as the next Giroux, anything less than a 75+ point career high will be a disappointment, how is he not playing in this tournament? He must suck.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Marner looks terrible out there in the World Cup. Oh wait, he didn't make it. He's being hyped as the next Giroux, anything less than a 75+ point career high will be a disappointment, how is he not playing in this tournament? He must suck.

agree.

 

[Hagged]

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

Oh, the tears must taste salty.

 

[93LEAFS]

Marner looks terrible out there in the World Cup. Oh wait, he didn't make it. He's being hyped as the next Giroux, anything less than a 75+ point career high will be a disappointment, how is he not playing in this tournament? He must suck.

What's it say about Ehlers when he couldn't even crack the weakest team at the tourney? Or the fact Trouba looks to be the 7th D.

 

[Daximus]

It's hilarious reading this thread and the Matthews thread. One is full of leafs fan frothing at the mouth about their own prospect and the other is full of leafs fans demanding that everyone should think of Laine as a bust because he didn't score against Sweden...

 

[Daximus]

Daximus

What's it say about Ehlers when he couldn't even crack the weakest team at the tourney? Or the fact Trouba looks to be the 7th D.

I think its pretty evident by how slow team europe is that they needed Ehlers.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't think it is an opinion that he scores the vast majority of his goals in extra time and space on pp? Way out wide with no forward challenging him?

All of his goals are
On YouTube. That's not an opinion.
You think he has the skating? Barkov plays nothing like him. not all players can translate their games equally. I think laine uses
The specific size of ice to his advantage. That could mean he is just that smart and figured out a
Way to game the system.

The kid has a game that is specifically tailored
To big ice. Half of his goals
Would be from the second
Row of an nhl rink. It is up to him to translate it.

Are you for real? This is a viable critique. Goodluck with this type of analysis.

 

[IamherefortheFinn]

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

Imho he did not look bad. He looked decent against a very good defense even though he has very limited experiences from the small rink. The NHL teams don't have anyway near that kind of a defense in average.

And on a further note. The old threads are full of criticism of his skating. Now not so much anymore. What do you guys think? Has his skating improved over the summer and/or is his skating just better suited for the small rink?

 

[BB88]

What's it say about Ehlers when he couldn't even crack the weakest team at the tourney? Or the fact Trouba looks to be the 7th D.

Do you agree with LeafsRockForBabcock that you can make a 100% projection of Laines future after 2 games against all star team?

Team Europe definitely could use Ehlers and Trouba shouldn't be the #7D, but that's a bit off topic.

 

[Legion34]

Are you for real? This is a viable critique. Goodluck with this type of analysis.

This is not the only thing I am basing it on, but actually yes. I saw from just watching the highlight package the potential flaw, which drew me to watch the player closely. So far I have not seen anything to change my opinion.

If you honestly don't remember that he scores from the outside pp in a way that is not realistic to modern NHL competition, watch the highlights. You can see for yourself that the goals he scored are from the outside, where no one can pressure him, and a lot of the time would be on someone's lap in the third row of an NHL rink.

Go watch them..... Count the amount of goals he scores from outside, and how close any player is. Ask yourself. Do you think this is likely in the NHL? It hasn't been working out so far.....

Edit:Too be fair, from the third row was probably too far... However it is still my opinion that he primarily scores in time and space that others create for him. That he will not get in the NHL